Hello this is one map where people seemed to have picked up very quickly how to play it.
Dont change too much with this map. Eventually people will learn how to attack the choke points (like breaching train) (remember bridge used to be a pain vs a good team until cave launch?). Theres always a way but If it becomes too much of a problem then yes change it.
The only thing thats needs fixing IMO are:
1. the red teleport thing (just remove it? people flying out of it?!)
2. the final obj is too open, add some doors to the final objective that can only be opened by a another switch (just think of a suitable place to put this switch).
3. There should be one "hard" objective in this map. Either the train or the final. Every successful map has at least 1 hard to breach objective. Dont make the map too easy!
4. Add some TNT ammo FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey che I must congratulate you on this map, I think ur actually onto a winner in this map! people really starting to like it. its picked nearly every pug now.
I think we are a few suggestions away from another league map.
My suggestions:
1. If you could remove the ripper at start it would be nice IMO. The reason i think that is people realise the sniper nest can be breached now so they send a few extra defenders over there which opens up the gen a bit more.
2. The bomb, maybe move it slightly further back? this would still give a nest jumper a chance to get it. but would also help the defenders to defend it better (in a normal attack), at the moment it feels like the objective goes in a few secs.
3. the map needs another holdable objective, the train is nice but we still need a another holdable objective in this map (people have clocked on the SB+Boots so the train wont be that holdable anymore). Leave this objective - its nice
4. the planet teleport objective is fine as well, nicely balanced kinda like desertstorm scuds...sometimes with a good def it can be held.
5. The end is the most crucial part of the map, there are TOO many ways too attack. First i think you need to remove the hole in the cave?
The problem (that i dont know how to fix) is that people can launch in very easily all around the castle, if u block the launch then the middle route becomes to spammy, we need a compromise.
Dont take these are criticism, the map is VERY nice and just needs a few touch ups. 1 more holdable obj is what it needs IMO (it already plays quite nice), if the end can become the same difficulty as ballistics last obj then we are onto a true winner.
My suggestions:
1. If you could remove the ripper at start it would be nice IMO. The reason i think that is people realise the sniper nest can be breached now so they send a few extra defenders over there which opens up the gen a bit more.
the ripper is already removed...i placed it now on the side of the geni
also i reduced the HP of the geni a lil bit...i think around 20%
the sniper nest is a bit harder now cause i added a laser with a switch that opens it temporary, exactly like in ballistic. only thing i changed..it´s longer open
i added it cause i think if some1 breachs it, it´s very very hard to get the attacker...especially a sniper whore..
and cause we tried in a alpha test a double hammer near the ruins outside
and it´s easy to learn a launch from there straight to the nest
the next test phase will show if we keep it or if we kick it 4 a harder defence
2. The bomb, maybe move it slightly further back? this would still give a nest jumper a chance to get it. but would also help the defenders to defend it better (in a normal attack), at the moment it feels like the objective goes in a few secs.
that why i moved the attacker spawns at this stage a lil bit more back..into the wall
just to give the defenders 2-3 seconds more time to get in place
i´m not sure if that will balance it there
i was thinking about a other solution, but changing the architecture in this area will be difficult, cause the engine doesn´t like it if i change anything there
i even had to remove some of my reactor parts to make it "bug free" when playing it online
3. the map needs another holdable objective, the train is nice but we still need a another holdable objective in this map (people have clocked on the SB+Boots so the train wont be that holdable anymore). Leave this objective - its nice
i was thinking about a breach msg there..like "some1 is climbing up the rope" or "underwater cave breached"
tho... i removed the boots
i think if the defence places 2 guys in the room, 1 each door
and 2 guys outside the doors on the ramp
and 2 push/snipe...it should be holded much longer
but i was also thinking about to make a second floor inside the final building
not sure if that would work
i´ll keep that in my mind if the final is still to hard to defend with the lil changes i made already
First section of the map - Virus, Wall Teleporter, Generator - similar to Ballistic (double launch at start to disabled front gate, taking down defender tele inside left gate wall, objective in far top corner). It's not a bad thing, but I think overall it is slightly inferior to the Ballistic start. Mainly because Nali is more open, and it feels like there is less space/cover at the Generator for any back-men. Also it seems you have to get the Generator in a more direct, brute-force way; whereas on Ballistic you can do more tricks to get the Generator (rocket shot, flak shot, sneaking, etc). This is even more true now that rippers are getting practically removed. However, I do understand that the start of Ballistic is *very* well made so it's hard to match that level of design, and also the need for the Nali start to not just be an exact copy of it
One suggestion for the start I would make is to do something else with the defence mini-bunker thing (here). It's a bit pointless and makes you a sitting duck sniper. Possibly you could make it into another way for the defenders to get to the front, but put some lasers or something over the exit that only the defence can pass through. Maybe then after the "Wall Teleporter" gets taken, the mini-bunker exit also gets disabled. It would be give another way for the defence to get to the front, other than jumping through the razor wire on the wall - just a thought!
The next objective, aka The Bomb. It's already been mentioned that it needs fixing. One thing I would try is adding a teleport that goes from the defender spawn (near where flak/rockets is), to the bomb room (opposite side of the room to the objective), and throw in some extra ammo also. The defenders would still take a 4 or 5 seconds to get back after dying, and it might add an extra 'hard to get' objective. Maybe it will end up being too hard to attack, or it could be too spammy, or it might be just the right difficulty - I would be interested to see for sure!
The Train - most people's favourite objective as far as I know. Seems well balanced enough. I'm not sure why half the roof of the train is missing however (lol). You could make it into a roof hatch, or cover the roof hole with glass to make it a scenic thing o_0 (if you know what I mean...).
Planetary Teleporter objective - I trigger this objective on my first run most of the time. Bit pointless, but not such a big deal. The long tunnel teleport obviously needs fixing. People often get stuck in it, and it's very easy to use it as a launcher, like this -
Last section of the map (Castle, weird floaty crystal thing). Kind of reminds me of Siege3. Big open space, lots of towers and huts, some of which aren't really useful/needed at all. Even after dozens of play-thoughs, a lot of people find maps like Siege3, Tydium, Geko (etc.) a bit overwhelming with their large open spaces, different routes to attack, and many different places/areas to defend. Although the ending of Nali is more straight-forward, and thus won't suffer from it as much, I still get that feeling when playing it. I'm not sure if this could be fixed, or even if you (che) would want to.
In Nalicolony's current state I think the map is decent and a lot of fun to play. It's definitely your best work che, and I hope you continue to improve it. I think that it certainly has the potential to be a permanent and much played fixture on the utapug maplist
First section of the map - Virus, Wall Teleporter, Generator - similar to Ballistic (double launch at start to disabled front gate, taking down defender tele inside left gate wall, objective in far top corner). It's not a bad thing, but I think overall it is slightly inferior to the Ballistic start. Mainly because Nali is more open, and it feels like there is less space/cover at the Generator for any back-men. Also it seems you have to get the Generator in a more direct, brute-force way; whereas on Ballistic you can do more tricks to get the Generator (rocket shot, flak shot, sneaking, etc). This is even more true now that rippers are getting practically removed. However, I do understand that the start of Ballistic is *very* well made so it's hard to match that level of design, and also the need for the Nali start to not just be an exact copy of it
when i started the map in uED i wanted to make a "ballistic-style" map, cause i thought it´s a very popular map.and easy to understand and learn
about the rocketshot
if u send some1 on the wall on the right..he could grap rox on the top level in the garage and do a rocketshot from a point (that has to be found )
also u can send 1 on the right wall and he can go thru the garage..to the lil building in front of the sniper tower and sneak thru the tunnel to the geni..jumppad out and a few flkas and it should go
also, as suggested earlier in a post..theres a double possible from the ruins..i´m pretty sure u can reach top of sniper tower somehow..and with a slided hammer jump to the geni top (in the ruins are pads)
One suggestion for the start I would make is to do something else with the defence mini-bunker thing (here). It's a bit pointless and makes you a sitting duck sniper. Possibly you could make it into another way for the defenders to get to the front, but put some lasers or something over the exit that only the defence can pass through. Maybe then after the "Wall Teleporter" gets taken, the mini-bunker exit also gets disabled. It would be give another way for the defence to get to the front, other than jumping through the razor wire on the wall - just a thought!
The next objective, aka The Bomb. It's already been mentioned that it needs fixing. One thing I would try is adding a teleport that goes from the defender spawn (near where flak/rockets is), to the bomb room (opposite side of the room to the objective), and throw in some extra ammo also. The defenders would still take a 4 or 5 seconds to get back after dying, and it might add an extra 'hard to get' objective. Maybe it will end up being too hard to attack, or it could be too spammy, or it might be just the right difficulty - I would be interested to see for sure!
The Train - most people's favourite objective as far as I know. Seems well balanced enough. I'm not sure why half the roof of the train is missing however (lol). You could make it into a roof hatch, or cover the roof hole with glass to make it a scenic thing o_0 (if you know what I mean...).
the roof was (design wise) just a loading hole 4 the cranes + a 2nd way 4 attackers
i thought that otherwise the defnders palce 1 with a shock inside there and spam every1 that enters the train thru the small door
and
i had a door at that hole, but i wasn´t able to make it work with the engine
it was buggy as hell
Planetary Teleporter objective - I trigger this objective on my first run most of the time. Bit pointless, but not such a big deal. The long tunnel teleport obviously needs fixing. People often get stuck in it, and it's very easy to use it as a launcher, like this -
Last section of the map (Castle, weird floaty crystal thing). Kind of reminds me of Siege3. Big open space, lots of towers and huts, some of which aren't really useful/needed at all. Even after dozens of play-thoughs, a lot of people find maps like Siege3, Tydium, Geko (etc.) a bit overwhelming with their large open spaces, different routes to attack, and many different places/areas to defend. Although the ending of Nali is more straight-forward, and thus won't suffer from it as much, I still get that feeling when playing it. I'm not sure if this could be fixed, or even if you (che) would want to.
i know it´s a big area, mainly 4 the design
removing those parts would mean that i have to re-do the terrain completly and make a new 1
which would cost me a few hours
not sure if i´m fancy 4 that
My idea for the end part would be adding another objective which opens some kind of doors to the last room because it is such a big terrain it could be used for a whole new map but 60% of it is pretty much unused at the moment.
Of course this wouldnt make it easier to defend the last part (which could easily be achieved by raising the walls of the castle) but it would make a better use of that huge map.
Maybe even add 2 switches, 1 each side of the castle, which need to be pressed to unlock the doors, there is definetely enough room for it.
For the rest of the map:
I would remove the belt at start maybe as its hardly stoppable together with boots when going for train and even harder when people start to launch to it.
Apart from that Id like to see some different weapons, atm it feels like minigun only as soon as the building is entered, esp. on defense (sure there are other weapons in the base but all the objectives are made in a way that you really have to hurry to get there so there is no time to pick them up at all). Giving a rocketlauncher to defense for example might make it much easier to defend (the right now impossible to defend) bomb and planetary objectives for an extra bit.
However, keep in mind that the current defense times are pretty good already (around 4-6mins the last pugs I played), it should not become too hard to attack so it takes 10 mins every time.
Therefore I would adjust the generator objective a bit. Atm it is very hard to get into a position you can shoot the generator from and once you are there you are usally being comboed 1sec later (esp. with rippers removed) so I would change the position of the generator, maybe even in a way that it is possible to shoot it from a certain position outside of the room like the crystal on mazon or the compressor on riv3 from the roof of the sniper building. Atm it feels a bit like a shootable version of samsite, too narrow for my taste.
In general I think that getting this generator shouldnt be much harder than the compressor on riv3, I would prefer making the end objective harder by raising the walls of the castle so u need a double hammer to get over. Then u have 2 holdable objectives, a few very easy objectives and the generator in between. Still I wouldnt like to see the average time to be much more than 6-7mins.
i agree with sphere on the last obj, except i would go even further and remove the entire area where there is 3 houses on the right of his image as well.
A open map makes it very messy and making it a a bit more narrow would give the defenders a more comfortable feel to the surroundings and where the attack is approaching from - 2 routes of attack is nice, right now there seems to be 4? (Normal ramp, cave hole, left side hammer launch, right side hammerlaunch). it might seem like a minor point, but i think it is quite a big difference.
-yea picked alot gj with that- we even did a speedrun on it vs mercyskalman
-would like more shock/rockets for defense mini works for shit on my ping
or heck make planetary all goop objevtive just for fun
oh and that fuckin bio rifle on waterfort is so annoying
term gooped me for 8minutes? camping squid tower in pug...
and we had salva climberthingy on final the whole time...
My idea for the end part would be adding another objective which opens some kind of doors to the last room because it is such a big terrain it could be used for a whole new map but 60% of it is pretty much unused at the moment.
Of course this wouldnt make it easier to defend the last part (which could easily be achieved by raising the walls of the castle) but it would make a better use of that huge map.
Maybe even add 2 switches, 1 each side of the castle, which need to be pressed to unlock the doors, there is definetely enough room for it.
I've only played the updated version one time so far in 6v6, but heres my feedback.
1. gen without ripper - was fine in the pug we just played - tho some people will cry just because "there is no ripper - so they cant do there party trick". Sniper nest is too much more complicated to breach now because it requires boots (or a hammerjump - this wastes too much hp) + switch activation. But leave the sniper nest till we can experiment some more.
2. Bomb - still not much of a problem to breach, but the new spawn does help def. I think its ok now.
3. Train - now that the spawn is moved back to accommodate the bomb obj, breaching the train is now super super hard, a small change in spawn is actually making a huge diff. You need to move the spawn back to its original pos and test again. we full def this just now vs wish, insp, dj, free, anti and term! (although they didnt seem to work together at all and no1 bothered with boots etc)
4. Planetary Teleports - Nice change with the dual switches. keep it!
5. End Chains - the chains have too much health i shot an entire clip of mini-gun into it and it didn't die!!, also all the def needs to do is defend one of the chains because the doors at the end dont open until both chains are done.
You should maybe link each chain to a door at the end (i.e if the right chain is destroyed the right door opens).
This prevents all 6 defenders from camping one of the chains. The end still seems to "busy" so much things going on its hard to organise a good defence. I really suggest you remove some areas giving the map a bit more direction, but from what i read earlier it may take a long time to redo the layout.
Imo the end is pretty well done now apart from the chain hp. Once a chain is gone defense has to move some people inside castle in case someone is hiding at the last objective + u can launch to the chains pretty well so I guess it is ok. Maybe make the door a bit bigger so u can also shoot the chain from outside when u r close to the building, else it might get a bit gay with 3 defenders sitting inside the room.
However train needs fixing. In my opinion u should just put back the old attacker´s spawn and therefore delay the door opening by 5 secs so the defenders can set up a defense at bomb obj before attackers breach. This way bomb is just the same as before, therefore train is way too hard to attack, esp. considering the map is taking pretty long to complete already and with the other changes it will already be around 8mins average which is pretty much the limit any map should be.
Apart from that I would remove the sniper nest laser, it is very hard to get there already and even when u get in u dont have much of a chance against people suiciding and killing u with mini.
did another test, the chains are easy to kill, theres lots of weapons to help, rockets, rippers etc i dont think u need to lower the health, its like golgotha heart, it takes ages with the wrong type of weapon!
i think the "chain problem" is not a problem of HP..it´s more the collision radius of the fort
might make that a bit bigger in next version
i´ll think about the bomb area
maybe the gate gets more delay..or i change something with the architecture..dunno yet
and 4 the train...maybe i just add another spawn
i mean leave the moved spawn 4 bomb..and bring the old closer spawn back..not sure yet (maybe a vent that leads to the train area...from outside...with hammer launch etc.)
just give it a go this week to check it a bit more
i got a long WE and i´ll definetiv find time to make pre3
1. gen without ripper - was fine in the pug we just played - tho some people will cry just because "there is no ripper - so they cant do there party trick
Very nice map played it on custom server. Wanted to try practice some jumps or check hided powerups offline but i had an error "Could not find CheB" or something like that. It happens only if i try map offline. Could u send me this file?
/edit This error is "Can't find file for package 'CheB' "
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![:\](/images/smilies/submitted/smark/ohwell.gif "Oh Well :\")
gj with that- we even did a speedrun on it vs mercyskalman
just for fun
