Anti-NA attitude ? (split from some discussion about BioAssault)
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Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Well it seems that some fellows have to learn, that humans in general are corrupt and evil. The world ain't divided in 2 parts (good and bad), like movies or Monsieur Bush want to show.
i.e.:
- even the french government helped the nazis. They sended jewish people to germany
-B4 the nazis attacked poland, the nazis made a contract with russia. In this contract both parties divided Poland into 2 parts (german and russian part). Of course the polish government wasn't informed.
So russia helped the nazis aswell.
- As the russians fought against Taliban (early/mid 80s ?), the CIA supported Bin Laden with weapons and knowhow.
sad, but it's not important who did what in a war, it's more important who won it.
All wars are dirty and wrong, only politicians speak about "clean" wars.
i.e.:
- even the french government helped the nazis. They sended jewish people to germany
-B4 the nazis attacked poland, the nazis made a contract with russia. In this contract both parties divided Poland into 2 parts (german and russian part). Of course the polish government wasn't informed.
So russia helped the nazis aswell.
- As the russians fought against Taliban (early/mid 80s ?), the CIA supported Bin Laden with weapons and knowhow.
Not you "saved" europe, the stupidy of the nazis saved europe.
AnTi said:
sad, but it's not important who did what in a war, it's more important who won it.
All wars are dirty and wrong, only politicians speak about "clean" wars.
first off i didn't read the every post in this thread so if i missed something please forgive me. i see where u all are coming from about the war and all but u can't have peace without war. bout ww2 it wasnt only us or russia that won teh war but it was all the people. french , british, us, russia, etc. the nazi's made some mistakes yes but they still would have won if all the countries weren't fighting against them. also the usa didn't immediatly come into ww2 because we were isolationists and now we are trying to be the opposite. we may have gone overboard trying to be involved witht he world but atleast we are trying.
I idle in #NAAT on protium network as i sometimes play wars with them. Some of them came across this thread, d0rmouse in particular. He asked me to post this because he doesnt want to setup an account.
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I'm an American and I was brought attention to this thread by McNeill. Since I don't want Atma prepresenting a stereotype that some of you have been a victim of believing, I felt I had to respond.
First to the real issue:
Euro's don't like a lot of maps American's play, and American's don't like a lot of maps Euro's play.
Just the way it is. They have a word for that: Preference.
As for all this political bullshit, I have liberal leanings, but I'm liberal and conservative depending on the issue. Atma, don't blame all liberals for blocking off "nipples." Social conservatives believe that women should not show off "inappropriate" parts of their body.
And Atma, I have no problem with people being proud of their country. But don't confuse being proud with being arrogant. Saying other countries are "being jealous" is just dismissive and deserves to be flamed; forum rules or not.
For the other posters that make blanket statements like "I hate all Americans because..." you are just as ignorant (as opposed to stupid, ignorant just means the lack of knowing) as Atma. You hate all Americans? Have you met every American? You think all Americans are stupid for keeping Bush in? DO YOU THINK WE ALL WANT HIM IN WHEN HE WON THE PRESIDENCY 5-4? Don't be a hypocrite. If you want to say Atma's arguments have a ton of shortcomings, that's great. But don't argue the way he argues with the same fallacious reasoning and somehow claim you're better than him.
You want to make a blanket statement? I hate all arrogance and hate.
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I'm an American and I was brought attention to this thread by McNeill. Since I don't want Atma prepresenting a stereotype that some of you have been a victim of believing, I felt I had to respond.
First to the real issue:
Euro's don't like a lot of maps American's play, and American's don't like a lot of maps Euro's play.
Just the way it is. They have a word for that: Preference.
As for all this political bullshit, I have liberal leanings, but I'm liberal and conservative depending on the issue. Atma, don't blame all liberals for blocking off "nipples." Social conservatives believe that women should not show off "inappropriate" parts of their body.
And Atma, I have no problem with people being proud of their country. But don't confuse being proud with being arrogant. Saying other countries are "being jealous" is just dismissive and deserves to be flamed; forum rules or not.
For the other posters that make blanket statements like "I hate all Americans because..." you are just as ignorant (as opposed to stupid, ignorant just means the lack of knowing) as Atma. You hate all Americans? Have you met every American? You think all Americans are stupid for keeping Bush in? DO YOU THINK WE ALL WANT HIM IN WHEN HE WON THE PRESIDENCY 5-4? Don't be a hypocrite. If you want to say Atma's arguments have a ton of shortcomings, that's great. But don't argue the way he argues with the same fallacious reasoning and somehow claim you're better than him.
You want to make a blanket statement? I hate all arrogance and hate.
Bart said:
Yupz, but for meh most important is that Poland never gave up, we were attacked sneaky, but we had powerful, underground army called AK (Armia Krajowa) German dint knew about them, they just fooked up germans from our country at end of them war
But still war is wrong like most of ppl saying here.
Joko said:
Really? I don't think so, especially as it was pretty fucking lighthearted. Does anyone these days even believe in heaven/hell anymore? You seem to have a tendency of taking things out of context, misreading and misunderstanding alot of mine and other's posts.
I would have footed some sort of input but Sauron and Bart basically put forward every counter argument I could think of, so I have no need.
And anyway, what's the point in saying I'm intolerent, impatient and prejudiced without explaining why you think that? I might as well just call you naive, judgemental and narrow minded for saying that without any other information, mightn't I??? (and again I have to ask why the pruning of porn threads in chit chat every few months can pertain to my ability to pass comment? (for a mod......))
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Two things.
1) You are talking to me atm Jackel
2) Again, a reminder, this is P&S, keep it on topic, keep it clean. I am warning people and not modding posts as this has been moved here from another thread and they might not have noticed.
1) You are talking to me atm Jackel
2) Again, a reminder, this is P&S, keep it on topic, keep it clean. I am warning people and not modding posts as this has been moved here from another thread and they might not have noticed.
I dont see how the american's really did much useful in the war except provide supplies ( which we even to this day owe u a massive debt too and still repaying it.. ) the english did more in both world wars than american's ever did and when the english tried to help the american's we were ignored for instance all the sunk american ships of your coasts because u did'nt listen to english and went around with all your lights on not a care in the world till the germans sank boat after boat.. then u come and "steal" our inventions/strategies. you decided to help very late in the wars only because you saw not that europe was in trouble but yourselves were in trouble once germany had conquered europe it would naturally turn to america. And 1 fact i remember reading which surprised me was that german would of never attacked england if we did'nt get involved most of our monarchy is german. But we joined the war to defend other smaller countries where as america joined to save it's own "hide"...
vietnam u joined the war u massacred hundreds of thousands of vietnamese with your bombs but when it came to the real fight and when it counted u left the country and lost the war vs a much smaller nation.
your reason for attacking iraq were very unfound and so were the britsh goverments i can say this right now alot of british people are unhappy with the way the uk goverment handled themselves in this.
I think i read in a previous post u even supported the taliban in the 80's while russians were trying to kill them off only for these taliban's to turn on u and probably use your own money/training/weapons on you...
I think alot of it comes down to your whole attitude to life and the way your children are brought up where as in other countrie's children are taught in a fair and unbiased way american's are taught with much bias towards the american way. you can see this very well even in something as stupid as holywood where all the war movies are biased towads american's and actually lie to make the american's look good.
I think for now tho dealing with true terrorists and trying to make the world 1 place where no one should be in fear of terrorism or anything else, but unfortunely this cant be done simply because of money, america and other countries ( all european countries ) make money from the way the world is run atm and they will continue to do so till they get a kick in the "backside".
vietnam u joined the war u massacred hundreds of thousands of vietnamese with your bombs but when it came to the real fight and when it counted u left the country and lost the war vs a much smaller nation.
your reason for attacking iraq were very unfound and so were the britsh goverments i can say this right now alot of british people are unhappy with the way the uk goverment handled themselves in this.
I think i read in a previous post u even supported the taliban in the 80's while russians were trying to kill them off only for these taliban's to turn on u and probably use your own money/training/weapons on you...
I think alot of it comes down to your whole attitude to life and the way your children are brought up where as in other countrie's children are taught in a fair and unbiased way american's are taught with much bias towards the american way. you can see this very well even in something as stupid as holywood where all the war movies are biased towads american's and actually lie to make the american's look good.
I think for now tho dealing with true terrorists and trying to make the world 1 place where no one should be in fear of terrorism or anything else, but unfortunely this cant be done simply because of money, america and other countries ( all european countries ) make money from the way the world is run atm and they will continue to do so till they get a kick in the "backside".
I dont see how the american's really did much useful in the war except provide supplies ( which we even to this day owe u a massive debt too and still repaying it.. ) the english did more in both world wars
tbh i would agree u did more because we were selfish pricks and only cared about ourselves. but we were much use because the germans could have beat the russians if they were the only front they had. but we distracted them u could say so the massive russian army could come in. we definetly could have done more but i don't think the war would have been won if all the countries involved weren't involved.\
you decided to help very late in the wars only because you saw not that europe was in trouble but yourselves were in trouble once germany had conquered europe it would naturally turn to america. And 1 fact i remember reading which surprised me was that german would of never attacked england if we did'nt get involved most of our monarchy is german. But we joined the war to defend other smaller countries where as america joined to save it's own "hide"...
we actually didn't decide to help at all the japanese bombed us so we entered. (yes that is selfish as i said earlier). tbh we didn't care what was happening in europe atm. and germany did attack u but since hitler started bombing london instead of finishing off the airfields u guys survived (gj btw). hitler knew ur navy would kick his ass if he tried to land on ur beaches so he bombed u but he bombed the wrong place.
vietnam u joined the war u massacred hundreds of thousands of vietnamese with your bombs but when it came to the real fight and when it counted u left the country and lost the war vs a much smaller nation.
yes we did massacre hundreds of thousands of vietnamese and i am very disappointed but we didnt know who were the vietcong or not. also they would send children to our troops with bombs under their shirts and blow us up. i am not saying the killings were justified but in a way its ur ass or theirs. yes we did leave but the main reason we went into vietnam is because we wanted to stop the spread of communism. (stupid reason imo). and we left because of the massive protests in our country.
I think alot of it comes down to your whole attitude to life and the way your children are brought up where as in other countrie's children are taught in a fair and unbiased way american's are taught with much bias towards the american way. you can see this very well even in something as stupid as holywood where all the war movies are biased towads american's and actually lie to make the american's look good.
yes we were brought up to be bias toward oursleves which we shouldn't be but i guess that is the arogant part of us. we think we are the best. not much u can do to change a whole nations opinion.
I think for now tho dealing with true terrorists and trying to make the world 1 place where no one should be in fear of terrorism or anything else, but unfortunely this cant be done simply because of money, america and other countries ( all european countries ) make money from the way the world is run atm and they will continue to do so till they get a kick in the "backside".
to make money? do u mean the oil fields? because we don't control the oil fields at all. we went into iraq because the dipshit cia gave bush the wrong info on wmd and such things. also saddam had terrorist camps in his country is one more reason. we probably didn't need to attack iraq right now but if we waited then the situation may have gotten worse for many countries imo.
tbh i would agree u did more because we were selfish pricks and only cared about ourselves. but we were much use because the germans could have beat the russians if they were the only front they had. but we distracted them u could say so the massive russian army could come in. we definetly could have done more but i don't think the war would have been won if all the countries involved weren't involved.\
you decided to help very late in the wars only because you saw not that europe was in trouble but yourselves were in trouble once germany had conquered europe it would naturally turn to america. And 1 fact i remember reading which surprised me was that german would of never attacked england if we did'nt get involved most of our monarchy is german. But we joined the war to defend other smaller countries where as america joined to save it's own "hide"...
we actually didn't decide to help at all the japanese bombed us so we entered. (yes that is selfish as i said earlier). tbh we didn't care what was happening in europe atm. and germany did attack u but since hitler started bombing london instead of finishing off the airfields u guys survived (gj btw
). hitler knew ur navy would kick his ass if he tried to land on ur beaches so he bombed u but he bombed the wrong place. vietnam u joined the war u massacred hundreds of thousands of vietnamese with your bombs but when it came to the real fight and when it counted u left the country and lost the war vs a much smaller nation.
yes we did massacre hundreds of thousands of vietnamese and i am very disappointed but we didnt know who were the vietcong or not. also they would send children to our troops with bombs under their shirts and blow us up. i am not saying the killings were justified but in a way its ur ass or theirs. yes we did leave but the main reason we went into vietnam is because we wanted to stop the spread of communism. (stupid reason imo). and we left because of the massive protests in our country.
I think alot of it comes down to your whole attitude to life and the way your children are brought up where as in other countrie's children are taught in a fair and unbiased way american's are taught with much bias towards the american way. you can see this very well even in something as stupid as holywood where all the war movies are biased towads american's and actually lie to make the american's look good.
yes we were brought up to be bias toward oursleves which we shouldn't be but i guess that is the arogant part of us. we think we are the best. not much u can do to change a whole nations opinion.
I think for now tho dealing with true terrorists and trying to make the world 1 place where no one should be in fear of terrorism or anything else, but unfortunely this cant be done simply because of money, america and other countries ( all european countries ) make money from the way the world is run atm and they will continue to do so till they get a kick in the "backside".
to make money? do u mean the oil fields? because we don't control the oil fields at all. we went into iraq because the dipshit cia gave bush the wrong info on wmd and such things. also saddam had terrorist camps in his country is one more reason. we probably didn't need to attack iraq right now but if we waited then the situation may have gotten worse for many countries imo.
again i have to disagree.Woodah said:
After Stalingrad (about 1942/3, dunno exactly) the german troops were in the defensive. The battle with russia was too much, the russian winter decided the war ( btw like: Napoleon and in the first WW b4).
After 4 years of war Germany hadn't enough soldiers and a lack of war matierial).
So Russia would overran Germany anyway, with or without the help of the west.
Guess we can all agree when we say that war means "killing". It ain't like the heroic shit some people wants to persuade us.
But the sad thing was, that your soldiers didn't only kill, they raped innocent people and threated them like shit.
This bad threatment was mainly caused by the drug habbit the soldiers.
But look to Iraq. What did ur soldiers do there?
You say that your are a "free country" with democracy, but you mishandled the prisoners like in the middle age.
I also saw in TV that there is an american military prison on Cuba.
In this prison iraqi people where take into custody without any accusation. Even "amnisty international" said that this awful.
of course you invaded Iraq not because of the money. You only aim was the free the people
.of course there aren''t american enterprises in Iraq, which build up the cities and the infrastructure again
of course the iraqi government is completly independent from the usa
of course the american troops secured the oil conveyors not at first
(beware, this was a sarcastic part)
Jessuuzzz, Iraq wasn't able to kick anybodies ass. You saw how strong the iraqi army really was.
Once again the american government did shit, and again it wasn't their fault. It was the failure of some1 else
.You thought:
"Hey we are american. We go to Iraq, battle 2 months and give the iraqi people freedom.
We've a new market for our products and maybe american oil firms could build their plants there. The iraqi people get richer, buy our products and everybody is happy.
Concerns or troubles? paahhh why? We did the same in Germany and it worked."
Well now you've to see that Iraq ain't Germany. And that everything ain't so easy like it seems at beginning.
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I dont think he meant oil, but the general way the world is lead. USA and Europe having the most resources despite a modest population. Companies who have their production in 3rd world countries so they can pay 2 cents a day for hard labour. Not sharing technology, that sort of thing.
But the sad thing was, that your soldiers didn't only kill, they raped innocent people and threated them like shit.
This bad threatment was mainly caused by the drug habbit the soldiers
doesnt that happen in every war?
of course you invaded Iraq not because of the money. You only aim was the free the people .
of course there aren''t american enterprises in Iraq, which build up the cities and the infrastructure again
of course the iraqi government is completly independent from the usa
of course the american troops secured the oil conveyors not at first
every war is about money yes but that was not our main reason. our main reason was cause of terror. incase u forgot we coudl have got rid of saddam in the early 90's but we were held back.
Jessuuzzz, Iraq wasn't able to kick anybodies ass. You saw how strong the iraqi army really was.
i didn't say iraq was powerful but they had terrorist camps. the people who blew up wtc.
Once again the american government did shit, and again it wasn't their fault. It was the failure of some1 else .
i already told u it was the cia's fault because their information they gave to bush was incorrect.
I dont think he meant oil, but the general way the world is lead. USA and Europe having the most resources despite a modest population. Companies who have their production in 3rd world countries so they can pay 2 cents a day for hard labour. Not sharing technology, that sort of thing.
yes but no one build companies in iraq thus there was no "free" labor.
This bad threatment was mainly caused by the drug habbit the soldiers
doesnt that happen in every war?
of course you invaded Iraq not because of the money. You only aim was the free the people .
of course there aren''t american enterprises in Iraq, which build up the cities and the infrastructure again
of course the iraqi government is completly independent from the usa
of course the american troops secured the oil conveyors not at first
every war is about money yes but that was not our main reason. our main reason was cause of terror. incase u forgot we coudl have got rid of saddam in the early 90's but we were held back.
Jessuuzzz, Iraq wasn't able to kick anybodies ass. You saw how strong the iraqi army really was.
i didn't say iraq was powerful but they had terrorist camps. the people who blew up wtc.
Once again the american government did shit, and again it wasn't their fault. It was the failure of some1 else .
i already told u it was the cia's fault because their information they gave to bush was incorrect.
I dont think he meant oil, but the general way the world is lead. USA and Europe having the most resources despite a modest population. Companies who have their production in 3rd world countries so they can pay 2 cents a day for hard labour. Not sharing technology, that sort of thing.
yes but no one build companies in iraq thus there was no "free" labor.
!r!e said:
This is complete bollocks, ppl are so easy to blame America these days. Don't get me wrong im not trying to defend anybody here. Im just saying most euro countries are just as bad.
America and europe have all the wealth and luxery they want, and they'll defend that whatever the cost.
Woodah said:
do u realise that we have 2004............ ?
IMO peeps learn not enough about history (i blame the german schools 2)
i think its time to end this "nations" crap in the world and work together....not only 4 a few rich familys that "rule" this stupid shit called earth