weapon damage and hit action in zp

[Squirrel]

Sq, there is way more to take into account than simply aim in stdAS.

This is my argument in simple... It is more difficult to hit a 120 pinger than a 40 pinger... On ZP this also applies except they have the same aim as you, where in non ZP they wouldn't. This reverses the advantage, so why would the Euro's partake in this? Its not equal, its giving High pingers the advantage as I am sure they can aim as well as Euro's. This league is 95% European players so it just wont work.

PA v atP springs to mind. They all lagged on their gay polish conns, no one could hit them at all and they won. Similar teams 2 months prior and PA won 8-0. (Before someone says summat I played neither )

As much as I respect higher pingers wanting to have an even aim as Euro's, it cant happen I am afraid. And all of this is besides the main point of the thread... the fact ZP has many problems.

Torp, I was only talking about stdAS.
Insta is a lot different. Still though, as I said many many times, I would take low ping, in stdAS AND insta anytime compared to zp 150 ping, and I beg you to show me one person that would choose differently. Doesn't that tell you what the net effect is?

 

[Torp]

Yes fair enough Sq. I would keep it as an option but never as compulsory. Tbh, I hope some people accept to play vs you on zp, maybe it would be interesting .

 

[deadly]

And in the end ZP has too many bugs Squirrel. Fix it, and you can introduce it just like you can choose to play with UTV.
And before you start about the minigun again: yes it is buggy and yes i'd like to see it fixed. I have made several attempts, but it has no use. Just like this, btw.

 

[endgegner]

Sq, invite people to prove you wrong all you want. There is no way to prove it is harder to hit. The only sort of evidence I can suggest is 90% of euro's call NA's and 80> pingers "laggers". On NAAT, when euros played there we got a lot of "lagger" remarks also. So please explain to me why it is even in terms of hitting people despite their ping/location?

Hi, I don't know if you realized this but 99% of the time we call a European a lagger on an American server we're joking and it's because we get it from you 100% of the time. We jest. Snee sometimes joins us on {qoou} and I've said "lagger " to him quite a bit, obviously joking. If you play in #naat you're going to meet a bunch of cunts who are still in high school and they're going to give you shit because A) they've gotten it so much from you, B) you're a bunch of cunts who are still in high school.

Having high ping doesn't mean you lag through shots - you don't at all. It doesn't mean you have a shitty connection, it just means you're situated in a way that makes your connection to the server take longer than it does for other people. Low pingers ALWAYS have the advantage even with ZP. My character is going to show up on your screen FOUR TIMES SOONER than you show up on mine, and that gives you a tremendous and undeniable advantage especially considering that all you need to do is point your crosshair right at them and shoot. Super easy and you can't deny it. There's absolutely no need for people to get up in arms because high pingers want a fairer chance at all, and you'll have to pardon us high pingers but we the minority need to stick up for ourselves every time we see some people trying to change things (or remove things) which are beneficial to us.

Squirrel and I as Americans with strong European heritage both love playing in the UTA league, there isn't a better league out there and there's some awesome people to play against indeed but I think both of us (Squirrel especially since he's been around much longer) feel that people aren't willing to give us a "fair" chance. We play here because we enjoy it here (for the most part) and have nowhere else to play. For love of the game, what's so horrible if once or twice a match Squirrel or I gets a weird shot on you if it allows us to compete on a more legitimate level? Nothing.. We certainly would have no complaints playing a ZP match vs any of you on an American server and during the IAC I encouraged North American teams to allow it in the spirit of fairness. Let's try to be a little more tolerant of one another, especially those who aren't blessed with the same gifts as us, whether it be skill or ping. Try to give everyone an equal chance, playing one ZP match a month won't hurt anyone.

 

[Zyx]

low pingers like zyx who uses minigun in every situation (I can seriously hear him starting to wind up his minigun inside the base before I hit the f*ing beach on bridge and Im the first one there) it's the only way they can get a frag.

troo. Also i do pay to get this kind of connection. Furthermore i don't load my mini before i hear a sound from a hammer

ZP for me gives a more laggy feeling on insta. I have always turned it off but it messes me up completly. Then last time we played you on coh server with zp on was just ridiculous did u even switch weapon beside the enforcer your talking about balancing the game. ZP with normal weapons atm does not do this.

 

[endgegner]

hi zeroping match with high ping (this was avg ping and not just a pingspike) http://www.utassault.net/utstats/?p=uta_match&matchcode=f93PnI0G

nugh said about how easy it is for highpingers to lag through and still hit enemies

Uhh, 380 ping is usually the product of something else going on such as downloading, conneciton freezing, etc so perhaps your "lag" was because of that, that should have absolutely nothing to do with ping, unless for some reason European servers are just crazier than American servers.

EDIT:
ROF said after this match: "-RoF`: I had to leave the game after the heaviest lag since about four years. It started with flickering players that were choppy in the movement like if they would jump arround like rabbits. In the end before I had to leave the game it was full unplayable. I cant tell you more about this game and I think after the result check it was going nuts till the end...... "

Looks like German players (or players in general) had a hideous time with the server that night, and has nothing to do with ping itself..

 

[Op1uM]

when it come to touch a switch with 2/3 people around, there's always a big lag spike and the laggy cunt get the switch so fo laggers and get a better ping

i don't like zero ping, it feels absoluty shit =/
and i always forget the command to disable it

 

[Supermic!]

sorry for off topic
zyx: I think it was in a 3v3 on pug server. I heard you firing up the minigun way before anyone was even close and I don't think anyone was about to hammerjump either + you were firing that thing forever and didn't run out of ammo lol. Maybe you remember the comment I had after that pug I said something about 2000 ammo. Anyway I thought that was quite extreme to use minigun like that

 

[endgegner]

when it come to touch a switch with 2/3 people around, there's always a big lag spike and the laggy cunt get the switch so fo laggers and get a better ping

i don't like zero ping, it feels absoluty shit =/
and i always forget the command to disable it

Actually, even with ZP on a high-pinger needs to touch the switch for about a full second or more to be able to trigger the objective. It's crazy. I can't even tell you the amount of times I've gotten objectives, said on TS that I had them and gotten killed while on the switch for half a second

 

[Zyx]

sorry for off topic
zyx: I think it was in a 3v3 on pug server. I heard you firing up the minigun way before anyone was even close and I don't think anyone was about to hammerjump either + you were firing that thing forever and didn't run out of ammo lol. Maybe you remember the comment I had after that pug I said something about 2000 ammo. Anyway I thought that was quite extreme to use minigun like that

ah ok yes it helps with eZammo

 

[w1sh]

sorry for off topic
zyx: I think it was in a 3v3 on pug server. I heard you firing up the minigun way before anyone was even close and I don't think anyone was about to hammerjump either + you were firing that thing forever and didn't run out of ammo lol. Maybe you remember the comment I had after that pug I said something about 2000 ammo. Anyway I thought that was quite extreme to use minigun like that

It is extreme, we all know the story with Zyx + minigun (he actually does it to piss people off now imo, lets all stop commenting, he loves the attention)

Still, using it alot doesn't mean it's overpowered, like the ZP enforcers are

 

[Squirrel]

.... Then last time we played you on coh server with zp on was just ridiculous did u even switch weapon beside the enforcer your talking about balancing the game. ZP with normal weapons atm does not do this.

As opposed to non-ZP, that is also not balanced? By the way, I use sniper and shock primarily, but if those are not available, I rely on enforcers, since minigun is totally useless on high ping, while it's the other way around for a low pinger. Compare that to you using minigun 100% of the time, since minigun is almost everywhere, and you simply ignore all the other weapons, available or not.

Anyway, on a different note, can someone like Cratos, Weirdo or anyone else indicate how much effort is needed to change double enforcers to single enforcers? I would think it would be an easy change, and I'm willing to contribute both in financially and coding effort means, if someone points me to the right direction.

 

[Squirrel]

Actually, even with ZP on a high-pinger needs to touch the switch for about a full second or more to be able to trigger the objective. It's crazy. I can't even tell you the amount of times I've gotten objectives, said on TS that I had them and gotten killed while on the switch for half a second

Exactly, the same idea over and over again, people just completely ignore the other's point of view. I swear I have been sitting on warhead in ballistic for like 5 seconds countless times, only to find out that I was not in fact on it and was already dead. In fact, the only times a high pinger gets an objective through lag, is when he gets lucky as in he guesses properly where he is and makes the proper adjustments and the other person/server might be having a little spike or something. For the rest of the game, he just doesn't get anywhere close to it, since he gets shot before hand.

By the way, ZP, while not perfect, improves a lot the lagging problem of high pingers for the low pingers, as in you don't see people sliding anymore etc...

Cmon people, think in relative terms.

 

[endgegner]

Exactly, the same idea over and over again, people just completely ignore the other's point of view. I swear I have been sitting on warhead in ballistic for like 5 seconds countless times, only to find out that I was not in fact on it and was already dead. In fact, the only times a high pinger gets an objective through lag, is when he gets lucky as in he guesses properly where he is and makes the proper adjustments and the other person/server might be having a little spike or something. For the rest of the game, he just doesn't get anywhere close to it, since he gets shot before hand.

By the way, ZP, while not perfect, improves a lot the lagging problem of high pingers for the low pingers, as in you don't see people sliding anymore etc...

Cmon people, think in relative terms.

Well any time someone is truly lagging then it's going to be equally difficult to navigate since you're either not sending packets correctly or not recieving them correctly. I'm sure high ping wouldn't make it easier, but it's still the same effect for high pingers and low pingers. It's also important to distinguish between "130 ping aka Squirrel and Smantie who are completely hittable" and "holy shit you have 50% packet loss and no one can hit you"

 

[JACKEL]

Right!! everyone start being polite to eachother or i'll get my boomstick out

 

[Torp]

I think its not too relevant to discuss the pro's and con's of having a high ping or a low ping. The only thing in discussion is the ZP mod. It is bugged, it needs tweaking which probably wont occur, lets face it. We all have opinions on the Mod and in stdAS it seems less people prefer it. In iAS it seems better however. The fact there is so much differing opinions will very likely make this argument pointless and it will remain optional only.

 

[Squirrel]

I think its not too relevant to discuss the pro's and con's of having a high ping or a low ping. The only thing in discussion is the ZP mod. It is bugged, it needs tweaking which probably wont occur, lets face it. We all have opinions on the Mod and in stdAS it seems less people prefer it. In iAS it seems better however. The fact there is so much differing opinions will very likely make this argument pointless and it will remain optional only.

Well Torp, that's easy for you to say. The biggest arguments are because people, again and again, make shit up and blame ZP, high pingers, <insert random factor> whenever they lose/miss to high pingers. If you want facts, here they are, and again, this is not directed to Torp per se:

1. Does ZP makes the game a lot more fair for people with high ping differences? Absolutely! Huge difference.

2. Do low pingers still have an advantage with ZP? Definitely!. The advantage gap is reduced somewhat in stdAS depending on guns used, and a lot in IAS.

3. Should ZP be required? No! There's no point to it if players involved have low pings.

4. Do people refuse ZP because they have a higher advantage overall without it? Sadly, Yes! How do we solve it? I would propose make it required if a clan asks for it, unless people start thinking about other people and not play to win at all costs, and clans like 8 and Mod accept ZP for once. (in fact it's only certain people that dismiss it right away).

5. Can ZP be improved? Yes. How? 90% of problems would be addressed with a simple switch to single enforcers, which shouldn't require much work. The rest is nothing compared to the many issues we already live with.

6. Could some people leave if they are made to let go an advantage they have, or adapt to better opponents? Sure, but I say good riddance, in fact botters are exactly the extreme version of these people. We have to deal with all the security woes/issues because of people like that. Anybody that thinks he is entitled to a natural advantage because of where he was born, what pc/connection he has, or what's he used to for the win, does nothing but destroy this community.

Consider what other people are faced with everyday, before you go ahead and cba with any work you can do to help. Remember, you are in that opposite position for most of the situations in real life, unless you are part of 0.000..1% of the population. And if you still don't care, have the balls to accept the fact that you pat yourself in the back and congratulate yourself every time you get a cheap win, when in fact reality is a lot different.

 

[endgegner]

I just played a 1v1 (supposed to be 2v2) with zp and it worked like a charm.

 

[JACKEL]

Sort it out using pm's, i had enough with the childish comments.

people who actually did try to make the thread work made valid comments etc. if you wanna keep discussing this matter use pm's