League idea

[dErzOnk]

3. a draft is setup with IRC bot, similar to pug, i.

so - this is the point what Martz said... noone will programm an irc-bot or a booking system for UT-server for a cup especially not if there are only the same hardcore players playing....

I'll not play more UT in this leadder/cup...

If ppl have time they should try get iAS,PRO and 2on2 UTA league running again... But thats my point of view...

The UT-servers / TS / Webspace are really the smallest problems... also anti-cheat and matchreporter are easy to handle.... but setting up servers even though LASadmin tools will take at least 1 cup-admin around...

Sorry i can't be arsed - i would even not agree on a fix day that i have to do that... and what if some admin is suddenly away??!

Even if Torp spend 24/7 setting servers a crash of his internet means that the cup fails?!?... so thats whats meant by organisation....

I'll be around Torp... if i miss too much of this conversation remind me plz - and not say 1 hour before first cup that i need to set server

good luck!

dErZ

 

[Bart]

i suppose the negative answers mirroring perfectly the state of the community.
There are 2/3 guys who spreading new / good ideas and at the end nothing will change anyway because the majority here just dont care or even worser: dont wanna take part.

Even with the danger of repeating myself, i believe that its nearly impossible to start anything new here, because the amount of players who gives a damn about it are way less than the #pug channel joiners.
Most have family, jobs and their "mature issues". So a "whatever" - opinion is a result of the lack of time and focus.
And even if you've guys who say: "ye great idea, i'll take part or even help". Who says that they will?

History proved many times before (1on1, 2on2, ictf, UT2004, last IAC, etc etc), that there are big interest at first, but at the end (or even in the middle) people leave and problems occure.

Also a gaming community lives and stays interesting when there are regularly newcomers (fresh blood). But whats the point in playing against the same guys all over again on the same maps you play since 7/8 years day after day?

So probably those 2/3 guys who regularly starts threads to "reform" the league or add new modes should accept that it's useless to come up with new ideas in such an aging and small community. Sadly its way too late for that and this thread showed it once more.

 

[Torp]

Ok, last time I am going to say this.

This is NOT a reviving of the league idea.

This is a way to have cups, cups that in the past have been successful and very enjoyable.

@Mush, I don't understand why you feel the need to have a little dig at those that pug. "Pug crew"? You mean the 60 odd people that pug every week? Pretty big crew. The 3v3 only was designed to be a pug like pick, not the 2v2, 5v5 ictf, 4v4 iAS, 4v4 proAS or 1v1 dm. So no, it's not a glorified PUG. XB isn't a popular guy but he successfully ran EAC. Smant isn't a popular guy, but he helped run the IAC, which up until the latter stages, went quite well. In situations like this and you should know as I haven't exactly flamed here or in any of my serious threads, I can quite easily be sensible. Regardless of what you may think.

@Derzonk - This doesn't need any kind of coding or even help from admins to be quite frank. That's the whole point in getting volunteers to help arranging. The includes, setting dates and deadlines, selecting groups/knockouts/ranks/drafts whatever, you name it. Setting the rules beforehand and the correct setting of the servers. All it requires from admins like yourself and MyM is server setup and if times and dates are agreed before hand and strict schedules kept then I don't see the problem.

@Bart, This isn't new is it? Cups have always happened, just usually out of the blue with moderate success. If planned properly then it could easily be as much a success as the previous. This is NOT a ladder, this is a knockout cup which will be over in less than 1 month. With the changing of the gametype each cup, this may entice newcomers. Especially if we use the 1v1 DM or 5v5 iCTF. 5v5 iCTF league failed because AFTER a month people lost interest. I said at the time, a cup was the best and it should have been, same with the current 2v2 league.

Finally, IT IS NOT ABOUT REVIVING OR REFORMING THE LEAGUE. Thankyou.

P.S. I am leaving in 1 weeks time to move to Italy where I won't have UT or a proper connection for that matter, so before you suggest this is for ME, guess again.

 

[^od^]

hoi.

I tried to UTV last game of mi5 vs CoH. It wasn't exactly smooth and polished, and the settings i had were DODGY, but still the viewers were in the double figures (HOORAYZ LOL).

Anyway, I think cups add a bit of extra spice, as sometimes matches can come down to the 'ON THE DAY' kinda feeling that the FA cup and other european / american(playoffs) equivalents have , theres a bit of pride if you can take an underdog into the quarters, semis etc. I've had this a few times with some teams in CTF where nobody expected us to reach some of the levels we did and its a great feeling, whether or not you beat the 'mi5'' of the scene in the final battle.

So yes i'd be up for a bit of coverage, Think some cups would do this scene some good definitely

 

[Torp]

I will just add another thing.

The leagues been "dying" and is a "small ageing community" for best part of 3 years now.

Explain how we had 15+ teams signed up for IAC 18 months ago, some teams containing more than 10 players. We had almost 200 sign ups for this cup and we still had regulars missing, players with no country to partake in. Yes it fell apart eventually but that wasn't through lack of interest, more of poor arranging and leniency on deadlines. Also the fact it was 5v5 lost interest a lot.

Nevertheless, the cup itself sparked so much excitement, I can't believe you are ignoring this.

Like I said to MyM in pm. The only way to see if this is a feasible idea is to run a trial. A 3v3 cup, 1 off this summer, if it fails then fuck it, shit idea but at least we will have tried and had 1 last competition which everyone has a shot at either winning or having a great time in, instead of sitting in a stale league waiting for it to die.

Or it could spark some excitement back into the league and get people enjoying the game again. I'm not going to bring up the fact you guys don't play any more (at least rarely) and shouldn't have an opinion, of course you should, but it might even re-ignite some passion for you guys. Have you ever thought why you don't play any more? You can say you don't have any time now or you play other things. Fair enough but there are still plenty of active players out there wanting to play a game still, and the best competition is a knockout cup, not a 1 dimensional ladder that is going nowhere now.

 

[Mushroomhead]

@Mush, I don't understand why you feel the need to have a little dig at those that pug. "Pug crew"? You mean the 60 odd people that pug every week? Pretty big crew. The 3v3 only was designed to be a pug like pick, not the 2v2, 5v5 ictf, 4v4 iAS, 4v4 proAS or 1v1 dm. So no, it's not a glorified PUG. XB isn't a popular guy but he successfully ran EAC. Smant isn't a popular guy, but he helped run the IAC, which up until the latter stages, went quite well. In situations like this and you should know as I haven't exactly flamed here or in any of my serious threads, I can quite easily be sensible. Regardless of what you may think.

Not that I was having a dig, merely suggesting that the pug games tend to be largely populated by the same core people, however, the fact that you've just tried to label people as "popular" and "not", says more than I ever could.

All I was trying to say, maybe with a little sarcasm, was that the league is the league, its been that way since the dawn of time. You say you aren't attempting to revive it and that you can do the admin work via forums without a new coding/website, but it may need some people to help organise it etc. So, if thats all it takes, and you say the pug has 60 regular players (I'll trust you as only 19 people incl. Me, Mym, Martz etc have posted here) then why don't you simply get on and start it? You're largely getting negative responses here from people who rarely/don't/won't play, so what are we still discussing?

 

[Riv]

Waste of time.

People arent losing interest in the league, they are just losing interest in UT(not saying its dying). Obviously there are still a few people that still enjoy playing and play regularly, like myself, but if you look at the the people who pug each week, its usually the same 25-30 people and you get the occasional player returning.

And the reason there are so many forfeits in the league itself is coz people just cba anymore, its as simple as that. I get bored playing matches and sometimes leave halfway through because im bored already, and i know alot of the other "active" players in this league cant be bothered anymore either, they just play whenever they feel like it.

I play pugs because its best out of 7 maps and it usually lasts an hour most of the time, and the fact that i can come on whenever i want and there is a possibility of me playing a game. Not having to wait for a set date and time just to play the game; didnt mind in the past when the league was bigger but now even I cant be arsed to play competitively anymore .

813 views in this thread and only about 10 different people have posted in, im sure its not the same 10 people viewing the thread all the time, if people were interested they would have posted, like they did with the EAC and every other cup that was made in the past, no one is interested obviously. Even reviving the 2v2 league thread had more hype at this stage, and look how that ended up.

Torp pointed out that there were 60+ people in the pug channel today... doesnt mean anything to me because the only people i see active in that channel are the same people pugging everyday. ATLEAST 30 of those 60 people in that channel idle there for no reason, never see them talk and if i do its a one liner and then their off again.

if this does work, a few people will sign up at first because of the hype, but like every other idea that has come across the league in the last 2 years, it doesnt last as long as everyone expects it to.

 

[WaYnOs]

People have been saying ut is dying for ages...2K4 was gonna be the death as everyone was gonna abandon ut99 for that, but hey, its still here! I have been around for ages and only been back playing for the past four or five months and was surprised to see it here at all tbh! People do move on/get bored, that is the way of life, but you can't critise people who want to try and do something to make it a more enjoyable competition that is not a revival or a rejig of current league but a little interesting side challenge. Again I understand it its easier to get people involved early doors only for the project to start lagging nearer the end. But what hope has this ever decreasing community got of entertaining itself if no one wants to try something new. No one is saying this is how its gonna be, only making a few suggestions and hope others will get a little enthused themselves, is no crime. Not everyone who plays ut use forums or irc. I know several players from my old clan who only communicated through msn and ts. I realise for this to work a lot more people need to be on board, but this is only the idea stage at the minute, why not see what comes of it? If nothing does come of it then all that has been lost is a few comments posted in a forum board. Life will still go on and people will still play ut for as long as there is the interest, albeit limited!!

 

[Torp]

Sorry, but there are a lot more than 25-30 people pugging a week. More like 60 per week.

Like Waynos said, not everyone uses forums, I rarely see more than 6 people logged in at 1 given time. Not everyone uses IRC either. Clans such as TNT, AAK, DFP, DoG, PGS, atP, LOS, NAC, dzz have the majority of their players not using forums or IRC, just because they don't doesn't mean they aren't active or possibly interested. Just because you find it boring now doesn't mean others will.

Don't forget, yes we are an ageing community but there are still many people in education at the moment and people have exams and dissertations. Every year I've been here April and May have been quiet with June picking up again. Last month we barely got above 30 on IRC, but now we are back to 60 again. I bet in June there will be 80+ on evenings.

The only way to see if this will work is to stage a cup this summer, trial and error. If it works, then good game, if not then fuck it. We are not going to lose anything by trying, admins won't need to work hard. Waynos made a webpage in about 10 minutes. 4 people have offered servers and that's without the league offering any. If you don't wish to partake then that's fine, but why not try before rubbishing the idea?

Btw, Mush even when I started in the league in 2004, there was a lot more excitement back then, even in 2006. However, now it is not the same at all. The glass ceiling effect has risen and currently 1 clan above it. 2-3 other clans then another glass ceiling. As it is there is little point in continuing. Why not have something running by the side that keeps competition going a little bit? Something for everyone, a gametype which others might enjoy. How about salvaging the iAS and proAS segment of our league and making it a more exciting cup?

 

[Salva]

Hallo!

i suppose the negative answers mirroring perfectly the state of the community.
There are 2/3 guys who spreading new / good ideas and at the end nothing will change anyway because the majority here just dont care or even worser: dont wanna take part.

Hello all. It makes me laugh how many the 'Bart's'' like to give negative comments on a in their opinion 'dead-league'. If it's dead to you then why bother replying on anything besides from indeed trying to make every good idea a no-go. I never see any of you guys even playing or on IRC so why wud u care.

Anyway, the league ain't dead, people have been saying it wud die in 2-3 months from the day i started playing which is about 3 years ago or sumfing but here we still are and every day like 5/6 pug's get played. There still are enough people enjoying the game altho not watching what u lot type here on forums cus they cba. Just watched an conversation in #utapug, and lot's of people we're like yes good idea, or maybe try different ladders, or move down the amount of maps during stdas wars or putting a time limit on so people dont have to play for 3 hours on a sunday evening. Also, why does it matters there's only a group of 60 players with like 30 players playing a lot. If they can have more fun that way let em.

Personally i like torp's idea, which is quite unique :cool:, just because there can be swapped around with players easier, different game types will be played without the bloody effort to get sumwhere on quakenet and end with a bunch of faggots in a clan.

Anyway, it's good there's people thinking about a change and nevermind whether its 1 or 2 or 3. And the help to sit it up, i wudnt mind to do so, but i doubt u'll have any help with me onboard lol.

 

[endgegner]

I'm not popular

 

[pogogo]

how about start on a small scale

3v3 as minionly nights
all you need is 1 mutator
and 1 admin around to set a given server

youd get bossk and fury to return in no time

 

[Mushroomhead]

Hello all. It makes me laugh how many the 'Bart's'' like to give negative comments on a in their opinion 'dead-league'. If it's dead to you then why bother replying on anything besides from indeed trying to make every good idea a no-go. I never see any of you guys even playing or on IRC so why wud u care.

For the bazillionth time, people aren't "rubbishing" it for the sake of spoiling your fun or because we have nothing better to do... ok we don't, but we're still posting because Torp wanted feedback, which is what he's getting.

If you take away the replies from inactive people or those who are unlikely to play, you barely have enough people to make a clan, and that'd make this topic really boring and I would have no excuse not to revise the reasons given for poor exercise adherence in the UK... ooh I've just turned myself into a case study!

The only people replying here are
A) Torp, Pogo, Smant etc who want this and would be willing to help set it up
B) Me, Bart, Mym etc who aren't interested in playing/helping because we see it as potential work for little/no return.

As there is nobody here posting who is interested in playing and not helping, surely by now its clear that posting here isn't going to help achieve anything? It doesn't look like its intended to replace the league so either go to #utapug, dog forums or that cave that DFP hang around in and ask them if they want to play and then gather those who have shown an interest and get 'this party started'. Apparently theres over 60 active people wandering around somewhere other than the forums, so get going and keep us updated, I wanna see who winz.

P.S. Smant since Humph has gone you can be my new favourite troll.

 

[Bart]

Only because we post summin more sceptic or negative doesnt mean that we rubbishing the whole idea or starting a personal crusade against someone.

The threadstarter created a thread in a public forum and asked for opinions. So everyone, no matter if active, inactive, black, yellow, skilled or noobish are allowed to give their views.
if he thinks that there are enough active players interested, why aint the thing started yet?
Until now Torp just made a thread with suggestions and not many posted. Some of the few who could be arsed to give their opinion said something negative or sceptical. That says enough about the actual interest/desire in this community.

Imho comparing the IAC with a ordinary cup is something you cant do. During a IAC there are nations battling eachother, so somekind of patriotism or call it rivalry are added and give more spice.

It makes me laugh how many the 'Bart's'' like to give negative comments on a in their opinion 'dead-league'. If it's dead to you then why bother replying on anything besides from indeed trying to make every good idea a no-go. I never see any of you guys even playing or on IRC so why wud u care.

Some of those inactives were active long before your time boy, so show some respect to oldscoolers

Nah seriously, none of negative posters refered to a dieing league. They just experienced how most previous cups went. And they have the feeling that another cup will be another let-down.
It might be true, maybe false. Noone is able to see in the future. So only time will tell.

Ofc if the threadstarter finds some people who are willing to help (coalition of the willing ), and active players it can work.

 

[Champ`]

well i kind of think allot of you make valid points and i agree with allot of em , but the way i see the league is , i sometimes want a game and wen i do its either stdAS or a pug cause the coh matches are already scheduled and pugs u can play any time which is why i made another thread about the auto scheduling idea. But maybe torps cup idea could work or maybe scrapping pro and ias ladder and creating some sort of pug ladder where teams can play anyime they want first to 4 in a pug to cut out the scheduling nightmare somehow which people cant be bothered with probably. if its not a ladder it could be a cup i guess too if someone made up all the rules etc of how matches would get played. If matches were easy to schedule and play i wud probably play some but as Riv says no1 can be bothered really otherwise, from my point of view creating something with ease to sort out matches wud maybe create the solution , just my 2pence anyway.

 

[endgegner]

replying here are
A) Torp, Pogo, Smant etc who want this and would be willing to help set it up
B) Me, Bart, Mym etc who aren't interested in playing/helping because we see it as potential work for little/no return.

For the record, I don't actually care / want it to happen, I just said that if there's potential for it to happen I'd be willing to step up and assure it happens and happens smoothly. I think I had one post that actually contributed to the discussion, the rest was flaming torp (who is a bellend) and crying that I'm not popular

P.S. Smant since Humph has gone you can be my new favourite troll.

nicest thing anyone's said to me

 

[endgegner]

Imho comparing the IAC with a ordinary cup is something you cant do. During a IAC there are nations battling eachother, so somekind of patriotism or call it rivalry are added and give more spice.

Yes but here it's a battle to see who's e-peen is biggest, so something is at stake

 

[Torp]

Once again, serious thread. If you want to act like a kid Smantie, make a thread in chit-chat and I will reply there.

@Bart, it hasn't happened yet because you cant just get a few players to agree and start it. It needs servers that will suit a number of countries/players, admins for the servers, such as Derzonk, website for the results/fixtures and organisers. This has been up a few days and already plenty are willing to help in some way.

@Mush, the can't really base it off the forums and who replies. So far I've spoken to 20+ people in IRC who all think its a good idea and they don't like visiting the forums.

 

[Meteor]

@ all that say UT99 is over its age already.

--> UT99 will be played until the day a successor is found or the hardware wont be able to handle it no more.

@ finding interest.

--> If we need a prove about players willing to participate in a cup or another cup-mode we can easily set up a vote.

@ general

What I share is the idea to have a cup (all possible game modes, also xb's wm) that includes random teams that are generated with a draft system or else.

@ schedule system idea

I also still think that a separate predefined schedule path, that is based on named days clans can play on, and from that remaining day stack is taken a random day, on a common time, is an option beside the usual game schedule.
Maybe this could also been used as an addition for the last 2 weeks if games are unscheduled left.

 

[(s)AINT]

The only thing I can say is:

Better to have new cups or ladders or whatever than the proAS and iAS leagues still up.

I mean. My proAS clan (B!P) retired from the league in May but Chianti has kept scheduling and arranging (in other words: wasting time) for a league which is dead (not to mention iAS). And as chianti, also other arrangers kept up the work for their clans. New schedulings mean new matches, new matches mean active people. I think, though, that it feels quite nonsense to play proAS and iAS matches, coz there's no competition and no interest at all. 1 or 2 clans keep arranging and playing for what?Actually nothing. I think we should direct this interest in something actually competitive and which is worthy of playing and wasting time with. Not to mention that something new always makes people more interested, maybe for a little time(like 2v2 league), but maybe not. I think these ideas deserve a chance.

I know that I'm a total rusty noob, that I barely join IRC, that I'm deeply inactive, since i've lost interest in playing ut and also playing "unfair games", whose result is already decided, before u even start the match (altho,tbh, the 3 divisions kinda helped with this) due either to ping or skill differences. But indeed a draft system would make the game quite more interesting imo, and the fact that me (an inactive cunt) is saying this, explains quite a lot.

PS:
This is a little out of topic:
I used to play often on dog stdas and many people (yes, total noobs) ask for clans or are on ut 24/7. Especially during the last year (2008) I used to teach some people I met there the basic tricks and launches and give them some tips (also about the user.ini settings). Of course, I also told them about the league and most of them are now active members of the league. I remember that when I was a "dog stdas player" I didnt even know about the existence of this league, altho I used to play ut many hours in the evening. I remember that my ex clan leader, Eas, was told by an UTA member that there was a league and then we signed up -=LAG=-. That's how the league can keep living. And we should try to spread tricks and stuff to have more competitive games (which wouldn't maybe even take so much time, as I remember me and my -=LAG=- mates used to practice 2\3 hours per day to find the aimes of the launches we were interested in using (LOL WE SPENT DAYS ON THE FUCKING DARK LAUNCH )).In all honesty, I think that even Bart would start playing some matches if they were thrilling ones most of the time. There is no reason to show up if u know u'll lose 8-0 and no reason to keep playing for new clans, which get beaten iteratively and get depressed and lose interest. I know that making clans with approximately same skills would mean killing the ones who are still up, and me myself wouldn't like playing with some people I don't know or I don't like. So I think that the up mentioned method would be the only one to increase the interest in NEW (and maybe even old) players.