Capital Punishment Review?

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Here's a question for you Draize.

Whats so special about a child?

Why does a child murderer deserve death,
but someone who beats a granny to death doesn't?

or, for that matter, someone who walks up to a perfectly fit strong adult male. manages to over power him and keck his head in with a brick?

If it's because they "have their lives in front of them" thats not persuasive. an adult has a great wealth of experiences, friends, family, contacts, etc etc

If it's because they are weak and vulnerable, then *ANYONE* who is murdered falls into that category. By definition, anyone who is murdered fell prey to a stronger/more powerful/bigger/faster person.

If it's because they are trusting of adults, then you need to include anyone who is of diminished mental ability, like old people or the mentally ill.


My own answer o your question though, is that I think this problem will be resolved in time, by technology. Right Here, Right Now, I cannot support the death penalty, as I believe that if even ONE single innocent was killed by the state, the cost is infinitely too high.

Give us the technological advances where a computer can rip through someone's memories, and expose what they did, and why, as well as whether it was pre-meditated, whether they felt remorse etc etc, and you have someone condemned by their own mind. *THEN* perhaps, a death penalty would be in order.

But not until.

As always, my 2p

Ian.
 
Originally posted by Crazy Squirrel
In 1999 we signed the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights abolishing the death penalty completly in the UK. Don't think we can just pull out of that single protocol even if we wanted to.
Ur right no we cant, hence my original post saying `UK & indeed the whole of Europe' because any changes would have to be `Centralised'.
 
Originally posted by Phear
These people should be locked up for life, and released ONLY if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that they will not do it again!
So many ppl on this thread have said that u cant prove 100% that some1 did do something so surely using the same logic u cant say 100% that some1 whos has previously wont do it again. And anyway, who would want a society that would actually let these `people' back into its main stream. When paedophile child killers are re-intergrated can any1 really argue that `yeah, well hes served his time', `hes paid his debt' etc. They can never repay what theyve taken & the very least we should do is make it an absolute certainty that they'll never be able to take any more.
 
RE:

a gun is infact refering to an artillery piece or large bore weapon such as those on old style battleships

if we want to get pedantic. :D
 
Originally posted by BBStr@nge
Nice idea DT.

If it keeps cocks like Crusader the Anal Masturbator posting complete and utter fucking bollocks.
Hey u know what ... Fuck you :psycho:

And no1 said shit about the guy carrying the bomb in his hand .. or any1 being around him on his way to the busy supermarket or wherever he as going .. with that scenario he could have had his bomb strapped to his head and then ud be forced to shoot him elsewhere ..

Crusader
 
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Originally posted by Crusader

Hey u know what ... Fuck you :psycho:

Well said Crusader. You really are a retard:rofl:

There is a oft' used quote about intellect and battling someone who is unarmed.
All I shall say is me and u in rational and intelligent debate would be akin to George Dubya sending the might of all his armed forces, their kids, Parents, Grandparents and skeeter the trailer park dog, against a nation of small brown people armed only with pointy sticks.

And m8, u aint even got a pointy stick.
Crawl back into the festering sore that passes for your brain.
You incompetent lump of dog shit.
 
Ok so another scenario for you to consider. You have the choice to reinstate the death penalty, if you decline there will be 20 convicted murderers who will go on to re-offend. 20 people dead.

If you don't there will be 20 people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death. 20 people dead.

Which one do you choose?
 
I've always been a advocate of the no death penalty.I always thought its one of the most sinister and barbaric practices ever carried out.The criminal trussed up and killed in whatever manner,it makes me shudder.

Someone i loved was killed unlawfully?Suddenly my social consience would go out of the window,i would not only want the criminal to burn,i'd want the criminal to suffer beforehand.

Its a paradox for many liberal thinking people,a tired 'what if it happened to you' question.You know the answer to that.Its way to easy to proclaim the death sentence as wrong.
 
Most of people proclaiming it as right are acting on emotional impulse and not logical thought

ie, "i wanna kill that mother fucking paedophile" - as much as everyone may think it... doesnt mean it is right to act on it
 
BB, all tho that basically insults my country, i not only happen to agree with the post but it was FC :D

i have to agree with Uzi tho, its emotions going, not logic at work
 
Originally posted by DraizeTrain
I was toying with the idea of asking the admins if another forum could be set up purely for subjects of a serious matter and policed accordingly to keep it totally free of spam etc. I know this is a serious forum itself but it tends to be more technical. I was thinking more along the lines of political & social issues. Ppl could also use it for asking advise about non-pc related stuff etc. I enjoy coming to browse these forums but sometimes theres very little food for thought here. What u reckon admins? Good or bad idea? If u would require a new moderator to keep a beady eye on things then i'm happy to volenteer but tbh I dont think it would cause too much trouble purely by the nature of its contents & its visitors.
I take this as a `NO' then.

This thread, like so many others, has now deteriorated into a farse :nono:
 
Originally posted by Plonko
Ok so another scenario for you to consider. You have the choice to reinstate the death penalty, if you decline there will be 20 convicted murderers who will go on to re-offend. 20 people dead.

If you don't there will be 20 people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death. 20 people dead.

Which one do you choose?

You decline, of course. A single innocent person executed by the state "by mistake" makes it too big a risk.
 
The bad news is you cant trust the British police. How many people have they had wrongly convicted of murder? They are missing the vital link in the case, so they think mmmmm i know we will plant it or make it up! Sorted, sheesh police work is so easy. Over the last 10 years we have had a steady flow of people being released from prision for wrongful convictions. I would list them but it would take a week and a half! Anyway the UK can't reinstate the Death Penalty as it is illegal under EU law. When we have a Police force that doesnt deliberately go out of its way to fit people up(and they dont only do it for murders btw) Then maybe it could be reconsidered within the EU. But that will never happen, they are corrupt and bent and all in all pretty fuking useless.
 
I've moved the thread to the Political & Social Issues forums because I've just noticed some nice person created that forum, and it seems appropriate. :D

You may resume fighting with each other! :)
 
Everyone please read and understand the P&S FORUM RULES before replying to this thread again.

This is indeed one of the best threads for a long time.
 
Some more food for thought:

@ Winty - technology is a marvelous thing, but never forget where it originates from - the hand of man. Maybe a computer will be devised one day which can read someone's memories. But that computer will have been programmed and built by a human (perhaps at one or more removes, but still ultimately originating from human hands.) Given how buggy, crash prone and generally poorly coded most software is these days, a computer to read memories will always be subject to error.

@Everyone in general: Question: Many of you are saying that death penalities are humans "trying to play god". How many of you are practising Christians (of whatever flavour), Muslims (ditto), Rastafarians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc? And what do our atheists or pagans think? Without wanting to offend our religious members, in my opinion the best thing which ever happened in the UK was the decoupling of religion from the organs of state power.

@Question related to the above: If you are against the death penalty for capital crimes, do you also consider war to be wrong too? Ignoring the knee-jerk "of course it is" response, stop and think for a moment. War, even if in defence of your people/country from a foreign aggressor, is still state sanctioned murder. If you are against capital punishment for capital crimes, then you must also be against a country having an army, navy or airforce, even if those will only ever be used in self defence. If you do condone armed forces, how do you reconcile this with your abhorence of the death penalty for capital crimes?

re: Crimes against children: There is a reason why this is such an emotive issue for many people, and why they consider crimes against children to be the ultimate wrong. I would imagine the majority of people on the planet are hetrosexual. Again, of them, I would imagine the majority will want to have children at some point or other. (And yes, I realise homosexual men and women also raise children). Now, in breeding hetrosexual couples, children will always be cared for above all else in most cases, simply because of the biological coding in the human race. A species which fails to care for its young, who are the next generation, tends to die out fairly quickly. Carrying a child to term and then birth represents a vast expenditure of emotional and physical energy for a woman. The newly born child will also represent a huge drain on the financial resources of the parents. Children, and especially babies, are physically, emotionally, and mentally in a total state of vulnerability compared to their environment until reaching a certain age.

This is why so many people find crimes against children/babies to utterly abhorrent, especially if the crime is a sex crime. For a start, almost everyone would agree that ideally sex should be a consensual activity between adults. A child under the age of majority can't consent to sex, nor comprehend the ramifications and possible consequences of the act.

Most of us view crimes against adults in a different light to crimes against children. The adult is far better placed generally to defend themselves or to avoid such situations. The child is not. The adult has at least had a chance to live a long life, gain experience, etc. The child has not.

In my opinion part of the reason for the current lamentable state of the UK legal system is a direct consequence of our political system. In this country, there is no check or balance on the power of the executive (ie: "the government" or "the labour party" (at present)). The Judiciary is now subordinate to the executive. The House of Lords has been eviscerated, and is now no longer an effective check on abuse of power by the House of Commons. A well orchestrated campaign by anachronistic labour party members fixated on old class battles allowed the Lords to be portayed as exclusively full of hereditary Tory peers. In itself, this is no problem. The problem is that the second house was gutted like a fish, with no thought or discussion as to how best to replace it with a second chamber which would have a democratic mandate to act as a check on the commons. What we now have is a House of Lords stuffed with Labour placemen. Which is no improvement on the previous system.

In the UK, the single remaining thing in my opinion which prevents the Government running rampant is the Financial Markets in the City of London. You can forget the Judiciary (who are too scared to do anything lest they are sacked), you can forget the police (who are ditto scared to act, lest they be branded racist, and whose ages old independance from the politicl process is now over), you can forget the press (who have remained utterly silent in the wake of the current government's abuses of its citizens rights) and you can forget the House of Lords as well. Having Financial Markets as the sole check on Government power may be effective, but its not ideal. Money is a poor guardian of democracy.

The point of that rant is this: Legal policy is now decided exclusively by the executive. This means they will react in a knee-jerk fashion to pass ill-thought out laws which are more designed to apease their supporters, and ensure continued support at the ballot box at the next election, than they are to solve serious problems. There is no longer and prior process of consideration of the best approach.

Take an example: People in this country are out of work, live in poor housing and suffer endemic crime in large areas of our cities. Yet the Government spends months of parliamentary time farting about with a law to prevent rich old toffs dressing up and chasing a fox across the hills. I mean, for goodness sake, who really gives a flying fuck. Lets get our priorities straight here.

Oh well, I'm rambling and should really get back to work :D
 
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