The return of AS-Snowdunes...
- Thread starter Useless
- Start date
-
Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Agree mostly with Snuggs; Don't under-estimate how many launches can be done from the outside area.
My thoughts:-
The jump pad is a good idea; maybe switch triggers on it after the Low-grav tower goes though, so you increase to at least 1min, maybe 1min 30 before it can be re-opened. This will limit the amount of shield+vials the attack can gather.
Remove the sniper above the entrance to the final outside area, it shifts the balance to the attackers too much imo, launches are already fairly simple to set up out of view from defence, you don't need to have an easy spot to defend the launches too; alternatively, place the sniper rifle (no ammo) just inside (but beyond the door mover), and remove the lift, so attack have to use a hammer jump/launch, or boots gained from low to get up there.
My thoughts:-
The jump pad is a good idea; maybe switch triggers on it after the Low-grav tower goes though, so you increase to at least 1min, maybe 1min 30 before it can be re-opened. This will limit the amount of shield+vials the attack can gather.
Remove the sniper above the entrance to the final outside area, it shifts the balance to the attackers too much imo, launches are already fairly simple to set up out of view from defence, you don't need to have an easy spot to defend the launches too; alternatively, place the sniper rifle (no ammo) just inside (but beyond the door mover), and remove the lift, so attack have to use a hammer jump/launch, or boots gained from low to get up there.
ok the problem with snowdunes is a simple one imo. the low grav tower.
think of it like siege except now imagine siege with a defence spawn point one floor from the top of the tower ... it's impossible to attack low. Instead of making it easier for the attackers with jumppads and lifts inside columns and all other crazy things I would make it harder for defenders and put that spawn in a different place and don't let them spawn with potentially: rockets, armour, mini, pulse and sniper
think of it like siege except now imagine siege with a defence spawn point one floor from the top of the tower ... it's impossible to attack low. Instead of making it easier for the attackers with jumppads and lifts inside columns and all other crazy things I would make it harder for defenders and put that spawn in a different place and don't let them spawn with potentially: rockets, armour, mini, pulse and sniper
I agree with increasing the jump-pad time reset - I've been telling Pyke that for weeks
Increasing it from 35 to about 50 seconds after the new attack spawn would be ideal for me.We've been tlaking about that double-hammer in the final area and you're right, that launch plus sniper cover makes it impossible to def. One idea we had was to remove the lift (as you also said) and extend the snow pile all the way along to the wall where the lift currently is. The idea is that when the attack come out those two doors (right and left) they have a pile of snow separating both paths all the way up, and if they want to double-hammer launch they can no longer hide behind the snow pile. Launching from either path is very visible, and if we remove the sniper rifle above the doors the attack is made much more difficult. They can still double-launch along but they have nothing to hide behind and no sniper cover. This would also let us leave the high ceiling along, and would mean that the attackers would have to choose which path to go down / which door to exit from - if they want to get to the other path they have to hammer-jump over or something, and if they want up to the sniper ledge they also have to hammer up, sacrificing health. Again, this would make it easier to defend, though it would also be an incentive to leave the rifle up there, or maybe some ammo packs and just let the attack pick up the rifle that's sittong on the laser ledge to the right of their spawn-room.
I dunno if you've played SD recently but it's now extremely possible to attack through the Tower. Maybe too easy - there's boots, belt, hammer-launches and grav lifts. The Tower is no longer a problem in this map, except maybe for the def.
Isn't it their intent to change that? What's with the negative attitude!? It was a great map to start with, they're making it brilliant.just what we need another version of a map no one plays
That is EXACTLY my point, there is so much shit there now it's impossible to defend it and just turns it into a suicide-every-5-seconds-for-new-spawn map like desolate and you wouldnt need all that extra shit if the defence spawn point was in a better place.
you can't make it in a way everyone likes it. the purpose is that's is playeble and sutable and imo is an map that's hard to defend beter then vice versa.
Well the jumppad needs testing, im not really wondering that it needs tweaking tbh. so suggestions would be welcome, Useless indeed told me to increase it. But i rather hear more feedback on it. i see it happening that people say decrease it after it's increased.
It was just an idea and not finetuned yet
the low grav tower is way bettah then it was before. The lifts are very good, i even think no-one is going to use the ramps anymore. It's now turned into a fairly easy obj instread of the bottleneck it was before. so i dont see the prob, let's assume every 55 sec a attacker can use the jumppad. which will be visible when they do. Then 4 deffers can spawn the tower and one deffer can walk outside catching launches. With removing the rocket in the ammoroom attack has to run some meters to get the rocket, so they are maybe easy to set up, it's lot's harder to get into position for it. let's test it first before judging if it's inballanced or not.
About the last part, well okay it is fairly easy to set up a launch and it should get some adjustments, but what i remember from the other threads about SD people where complaining about final being hard.
Def has now enough ammo to hold it for some time they only cant rush to much.
thx for the feedback tho, keep them commin
btw useless has the homfree version. he can send it..
Well the jumppad needs testing, im not really wondering that it needs tweaking tbh. so suggestions would be welcome, Useless indeed told me to increase it. But i rather hear more feedback on it. i see it happening that people say decrease it after it's increased.
It was just an idea and not finetuned yet
the low grav tower is way bettah then it was before. The lifts are very good, i even think no-one is going to use the ramps anymore. It's now turned into a fairly easy obj instread of the bottleneck it was before. so i dont see the prob, let's assume every 55 sec a attacker can use the jumppad. which will be visible when they do. Then 4 deffers can spawn the tower and one deffer can walk outside catching launches. With removing the rocket in the ammoroom attack has to run some meters to get the rocket, so they are maybe easy to set up, it's lot's harder to get into position for it. let's test it first before judging if it's inballanced or not.
About the last part, well okay it is fairly easy to set up a launch and it should get some adjustments, but what i remember from the other threads about SD people where complaining about final being hard.
Def has now enough ammo to hold it for some time they only cant rush to much.
thx for the feedback tho, keep them commin
btw useless has the homfree version. he can send it..
Every map has bottlenecks, populr or otherwise. I don't see why SD's bottlenecks should keep it out of the league. If that Tower is a bottleneck then it's not among assault's most difficult to attack. From playtesting I also think you'll be surprised at how easy it is to def against jump-pad users - trust me it's not a case of jump-pad = Cells.
no it's a case of jump pad + jump boots + jump lifts + rocket launches = cells.
I WANT a bottleneck in a map, it makes u feel like u achieved something when u get it, even better when it's one of the last objectives.
needs testing imo i think it's not that easy. and as i said, the launch is not that hard to set up it's getting the rocket that's hard.
We tried to make the first obj, a littlebit harder tho not that they are bottlenecks now
Obviously i apreciate your comments but im wondering when it would suit everyone which it won't. maybe we should set uo a test this weekend with some people who want to test it.. to see if it's really that easy to attack
yeh ok i don't want to appear direspectful i appreciate what you are trying to do but I think that jump pad although it's a cool trick is just giving the attackers too much of an advantage.
you can get 2 ppl onto the pad at one time outside because you don't need the boots to get to it (you can secondary hammer jump to the pad if u run up the hill a bit - you have enough time once the switch is pressed) and two people can go in side by side and get boosted up top, one of them potentially with SB, vials and jump boots
you can get 2 ppl onto the pad at one time outside because you don't need the boots to get to it (you can secondary hammer jump to the pad if u run up the hill a bit - you have enough time once the switch is pressed) and two people can go in side by side and get boosted up top, one of them potentially with SB, vials and jump boots
I know what you're saying but you seem to think the jump-pad is this totally unbalanced thing for the attack to use - it really isn't, and it definitely won't be if we increase the time restriction on it (I think 45 - 50 seconds would be perfect). In a 10 minute map, which should ideally be attacked in under 6 minutes, minus the time the attackers will want to spend attacking after the Cells, that's roughly 6 or 7 times the jump-pad will be used. You also have to bear in mind that's it's not exactly impossible to protect the jump-pad if you're on defence - just hang around it and stop any attackers approaching. There's nothing stopping the def taking the belt, there's nothing stopping them shooting the attackers before, during and after they press that jump-pad button and jump into the hatch. The jump-pad is not this ridiculously over-the-top thing that can't possibly be deffed against. The attackers are using the jump-pad? Fine, stop them. That's why they call it defence. If we extned the time to 45-50 seconds I honestly don't think it will be easy at all to just all hop in the jump-pad and get the Cells - it's not even easy with 35 second delays.
Put it this way, I played 1v1 with someone and I was on def - he eventually had to just give up with using the jump-pad because I caught him every time, and he got the Cells by going through the Tower. If the jump-pad was so easy to get the Cells from then this would be apparent - it isn't. And that was with 35 second delays.
A playtest is a good idea - I think a lot of people who are worried about this jump-pad will be pleasantly surprised by how little it unbalances the map.
Put it this way, I played 1v1 with someone and I was on def - he eventually had to just give up with using the jump-pad because I caught him every time, and he got the Cells by going through the Tower. If the jump-pad was so easy to get the Cells from then this would be apparent - it isn't. And that was with 35 second delays.
A playtest is a good idea - I think a lot of people who are worried about this jump-pad will be pleasantly surprised by how little it unbalances the map.
Yuk rapid share
update your link to this m8
www.deadboy.co.uk/uta/AS-SnowDunesAL_pre-Final2.rar
and i rar'd it so its a third of the size
update your link to this m8
www.deadboy.co.uk/uta/AS-SnowDunesAL_pre-Final2.rar
and i rar'd it so its a third of the size
ok the problem with snowdunes is a simple one imo. the low grav tower.
think of it like siege except now imagine siege with a defence spawn point one floor from the top of the tower ... it's impossible to attack low. Instead of making it easier for the attackers with jumppads and lifts inside columns and all other crazy things I would make it harder for defenders and put that spawn in a different place and don't let them spawn with potentially: rockets, armour, mini, pulse and sniper
This just sums about everything up. Lower the def spawn and remove the armor and the job is done...This map has been carefully thought through and made to what it is, shame there weren't enough 6v6 playtests. Just do the simple job of lowering the def spawn and removing armor, no extra jumppads etc etc, otherwise you might aswell call it a different name...