Wasn't going to reply to this, partly because its bad to bring up a locked topic, and partly because I didn't want to waste people's time in reading it.. if anyone will bother anyway.. but here goes.. you might think this is sour grapes, but I think I deserve the chance to reply to a load of accusations mc's thrown my way.
Yes, you're right.. my ban is actually nothing to do with my comments, they were just a means to you banning me. Let's start with your personal hatred for me.. how you don't like people being friends with me.. how you intentionally ignored everything I said to you and made your little comments about me to others, how you basically wanted to wind me up to the point that I did/said something to you, that you could use to firstly remove me as admin from the pug, and secondly ban me from "YOUR" channel. I like how you name 3 people who are pretty much your loyal minions (and your brother), to rely on as evidence here..
Now yeah, I did lose my temper with you, after about 2 months of your hatred, which I don't think even you can give a reason for, and yes I did say one thing which I think was a little harsh: That is that I suspected your engagement to your fiance is arranged. It's a fair question.. given that I know your background and how you were suddenly engaged.. but you don't have to answer.. that is your choice, and I do apologise for bringing it up, not that I don't feel I wasn't provoked, but like I said, it is a little harsh.
Not once have I gone to anyone other than those directly involved in the running of the pug throughout any of our little disagreement. I have avoided contact with you because you chose to completely ignore everything I said for the last 3+ months, and I don't think me talking to you via PM would get us anywhere.
I'm gonna defend XR here, cos I think he has/had improved his attitude in pugs in the short time he was allowed back in.. his record for leaving pugs was subsiding.. he wasn't causing as many arguements, etc.. however you did just ban him cos you had a disagreement with him on a public server, you also banned Hoi for either questioning the ban, or agreeing with XR on that server. On top of that, I was just in IRC at the time, and said something along the lines of "lol" at you banning XR.. and you banned me for a day too. Wow Aryan, real mature - you're an example of fine character to us all.
I think that if you didn't just ban XR for any little thing you see fit cos you dislike him, and he's seen as a community figure that can be picked on safely, without anyone really questioning you, then maybe he would behave himself. I mean now you can say that XR has been causing trouble, getting past his banned by renewing his ip, spamming, etc.. but he's only doing that as a reaction to how he was unfairly treated.. maybe that's worth thinking about?
Blah blah blah..
Let's get down to it. You think you OWN the pug channel.. you think its your house with your rules, and if anyone even slightly disagrees with you, you can just kick them out. Well I'm sorry, but that channel now IS the community, people don't enter the league channel, #utassault.. they all idle in the pug channel.. that is where the chatter takes place, where games can be played on the pug server, and where people tend to come first looking for admins when a league match isn't going as planned. So you have a responsibility to everyone in UTA to act with a bit of class, to be able to look the other way and take some criticism occasionally.
Funny that you brought up GRZ' ban.. he wasn't banned for anything he said about phear or his family, he was banned for making racist/facist comments on the forums afaik. I think you are referring to Gazzy(from ION) who was harassing Phil's girlfriend via ICQ, and after the 100th time of overstepping the mark, yes Phil banned him. But I really don't think you can compare our little disagreement with that.
So the summary:
You need to realise it is not your "house" as I saw you refer it to at some point, that it is a public channel which belongs to the community, and that people who are impartial and able to keep themselves under control should be in charge of it, like XR suggested, Mym, or one of the other league admins who be far more suitable than you for the role. However, I do respect that you set the channel up, and initially footed the bill for the server, so yes you should still maintain a say in how the channel and server are run, but you should not be this almighty dictator that you are proving yourself to be. I could continue further with examples on how you've treated others unfairly in the past, but I don't think that is needed. If you are able to show that you are impartial, and able to seperate your person differences from fairly adminning a community, then fine.. you should stay as the owner of the channel, but knowing you I don't think you're capable of it, at least not in the long term.
Unban me or, not.. but I feel I have a right to reply to your accusations and share my thoughts. I don't feel there is any point in giving you the apology as you ask for it here.. it seems like some aristocrat demanding from a peasant "kiss my pinky ring", and what's to stop you from banning me in a week or a month for something else insignificant which you can then exaggerate to give it justification.
To others, don't reply with petty flames/bickering at myself or Mc, it'll just justify him locking the first thread. Can lock this one too if you like.
edit: typo fixed :E
McNeill said:If you believe that Uzi's ban was because of commenting on why XR was originally banned - people are more gullable than I thought.
Uzi is banned for making personal insults at me, my family, my 'wife' and Inspire, Torp, Twnz and several others are witness to that.
Yes, you're right.. my ban is actually nothing to do with my comments, they were just a means to you banning me. Let's start with your personal hatred for me.. how you don't like people being friends with me.. how you intentionally ignored everything I said to you and made your little comments about me to others, how you basically wanted to wind me up to the point that I did/said something to you, that you could use to firstly remove me as admin from the pug, and secondly ban me from "YOUR" channel. I like how you name 3 people who are pretty much your loyal minions (and your brother), to rely on as evidence here..
Now yeah, I did lose my temper with you, after about 2 months of your hatred, which I don't think even you can give a reason for, and yes I did say one thing which I think was a little harsh: That is that I suspected your engagement to your fiance is arranged. It's a fair question.. given that I know your background and how you were suddenly engaged.. but you don't have to answer.. that is your choice, and I do apologise for bringing it up, not that I don't feel I wasn't provoked, but like I said, it is a little harsh.
And why are you bringing Martz into this? - Just taking a swing at anyone you can while you lock a thread he probably wont even read?McNeill said:Uzi believes that because hes friends with Martz it brings him some immunity and he always wants to try to bring down pug as best he can. For someone who posts in the thread "people still play UT?" and does not care about PUG you sure do go to such lengths dont you by trying to PM and spam every admin in every waking moment. Don't think that your fooling anyone with your tactics.
My tactics? I don't care about the pug? - Funny cos I was the only active admin for a fair amount of time, I put effort into writing up the rules, helping MyM to setup the RA/BT server with extra gametypes for people to use, etc
Not once have I gone to anyone other than those directly involved in the running of the pug throughout any of our little disagreement. I have avoided contact with you because you chose to completely ignore everything I said for the last 3+ months, and I don't think me talking to you via PM would get us anywhere.
McNeill said:XR - People know your character, you write child consistently in your posts - people who write child this, child that are themselves children trying to look all adulty on a forum. Noone cares - sooner you get that the better. I for one don't care about your opinion and UTAPUG is there to provide non-assholes an alternative to publics.
I'm gonna defend XR here, cos I think he has/had improved his attitude in pugs in the short time he was allowed back in.. his record for leaving pugs was subsiding.. he wasn't causing as many arguements, etc.. however you did just ban him cos you had a disagreement with him on a public server, you also banned Hoi for either questioning the ban, or agreeing with XR on that server. On top of that, I was just in IRC at the time, and said something along the lines of "lol" at you banning XR.. and you banned me for a day too. Wow Aryan, real mature - you're an example of fine character to us all.
I think that if you didn't just ban XR for any little thing you see fit cos you dislike him, and he's seen as a community figure that can be picked on safely, without anyone really questioning you, then maybe he would behave himself. I mean now you can say that XR has been causing trouble, getting past his banned by renewing his ip, spamming, etc.. but he's only doing that as a reaction to how he was unfairly treated.. maybe that's worth thinking about?
McNeill said:I see 50 people on pug channel, I see these days 6-7 pugs on average, I only see two people on the long term ban list and since you and uzi have been banned there has been 3 general bans for people leaving mid pug without finding replacements to which they apologised and said sorry. If you think that this will kill the pug after 2 years of it being around you need your head examined.
Some of the suggestions on a non joking side are quite useful useless. But due to not having the source of code is quite difficult to modify unless a new pug is built for the league.
So here is a suggestion: If people believe that UTAPUG being around 2 years has not provided any fun for them or better experience to publics - nor has it contributed to keeping the league alive then when the server runs out in about a month, instead of renewing it - we shut the entire system down. Then we wait for a new server, channel and for one of the admins to make a working pugbot (if they can be bothered) at which point what happens? Leauge admins are in control, do you think that people who leave mid game or piss about are going to get alternative treatment? Do you think that the pug will have more people playing that it does right now? Do you think with the addition of Uzi and XR that we are going to get a 100% increase to pug activity? UTA-STATS statistics shows the success of UTAPUG, I tried to bring UTAPUG to the league once in past and it was not succesful, this was my second attempt for the community and thankfully it worked out.
I might not get on with everyone in this league - people can hate me or love me thats fine - I will however never accept any personal abuse to me on a family level, ever. Phear banned GRZ once over an issue family related and he was every bit entitled. So don't automatically assume that admins are robots - they are not. Constructive suggestions about how the channel is run is always welcome, before the popularity of the pugbot I asked the League admins to get involved - not because I had too, other than LAS and the IRC channel itself nothing is league owned. I wanted their support in ensuring a succesful pug and want that for the future.
I want to know if anyone, human, would accept anyone being personal to families they love, to time and money invested and thanks to the last 6 months contributers to keep the server running for the community for people to act in this way? If UZI apologises for his comments towards my family I will unban him. DJ himself was banned for 2 weeks himself for saying something uncalled for, he apologised to me, he said he was drunk and didn't know what he was saying, it takes a bigger man to admit his mistakes and say sorry than someone who just ignores their mistakes.
That's the summary - people are free to choose if they want UTAPUG or not. My PM on IRC is available.
Blah blah blah..
Let's get down to it. You think you OWN the pug channel.. you think its your house with your rules, and if anyone even slightly disagrees with you, you can just kick them out. Well I'm sorry, but that channel now IS the community, people don't enter the league channel, #utassault.. they all idle in the pug channel.. that is where the chatter takes place, where games can be played on the pug server, and where people tend to come first looking for admins when a league match isn't going as planned. So you have a responsibility to everyone in UTA to act with a bit of class, to be able to look the other way and take some criticism occasionally.
Funny that you brought up GRZ' ban.. he wasn't banned for anything he said about phear or his family, he was banned for making racist/facist comments on the forums afaik. I think you are referring to Gazzy(from ION) who was harassing Phil's girlfriend via ICQ, and after the 100th time of overstepping the mark, yes Phil banned him. But I really don't think you can compare our little disagreement with that.
So the summary:
You need to realise it is not your "house" as I saw you refer it to at some point, that it is a public channel which belongs to the community, and that people who are impartial and able to keep themselves under control should be in charge of it, like XR suggested, Mym, or one of the other league admins who be far more suitable than you for the role. However, I do respect that you set the channel up, and initially footed the bill for the server, so yes you should still maintain a say in how the channel and server are run, but you should not be this almighty dictator that you are proving yourself to be. I could continue further with examples on how you've treated others unfairly in the past, but I don't think that is needed. If you are able to show that you are impartial, and able to seperate your person differences from fairly adminning a community, then fine.. you should stay as the owner of the channel, but knowing you I don't think you're capable of it, at least not in the long term.
Unban me or, not.. but I feel I have a right to reply to your accusations and share my thoughts. I don't feel there is any point in giving you the apology as you ask for it here.. it seems like some aristocrat demanding from a peasant "kiss my pinky ring", and what's to stop you from banning me in a week or a month for something else insignificant which you can then exaggerate to give it justification.
To others, don't reply with petty flames/bickering at myself or Mc, it'll just justify him locking the first thread. Can lock this one too if you like.
edit: typo fixed :E
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