I persume you all know the story of this. For those of you who don't then I imagain the bbc news website will have the latest details for you. The death toll has now reached 350 and is still climbing. More than half of the dead are children. It is a terrible day for humanity when terrorists consider children legitimate targets for their attacks. Those who survived are scared for life. Those who died payed the ultimate price. What for? Chechnya will be razed to the ground again at the cost of hundreds if not thousands more civilian lives yet nothing will be achived. I don't quite know what my point is with this thread, I just hope that some of you can share your thoughts on this aweful event here. May our thoughts be with the victims, be them survivers or relatives.
Russian School Siege
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dreadful event and from what i heard / read it should not have happened at all.
Never knew really that much about russia and former russian countries but apparently the russians never listened to Chechnya or their demands of freedom. they wanted to set an example
they totally ignored them and thus they took up arms, on the bbc they showed some images of Chechnya man those ppl have it bad. not only is it worse then the wild wild west cos of all the criminals hiding there but those ppl really have nothing. Now i know russia aint the richest country in the world but this was way below ANY living standard.
weren't there rumours about 10 of the hostagetakers coming from saudi arabia? jeezus all we need now is more war / terrorist attacks. that will convince enough mongs to re-elect bush
Never knew really that much about russia and former russian countries but apparently the russians never listened to Chechnya or their demands of freedom. they wanted to set an example
they totally ignored them and thus they took up arms, on the bbc they showed some images of Chechnya man those ppl have it bad. not only is it worse then the wild wild west cos of all the criminals hiding there but those ppl really have nothing. Now i know russia aint the richest country in the world but this was way below ANY living standard.
weren't there rumours about 10 of the hostagetakers coming from saudi arabia? jeezus all we need now is more war / terrorist attacks. that will convince enough mongs to re-elect bush
i am afraid the chechnya guys are just giving russia good reasons for military actions (which might even be tolerated by the rest of the world) 
M
Maz
this was unlike any other terrorist attack in my view , far diffrent fomr 9/11 too. the sep. 11 attack was a aimed mostly on americas economy (aka world trade centers). It was horrible , many people died , but still not as bad as this. i watched this on tv and saw really depressing pictures and footage , like a naked 9 year old kid standing outside the school with a heavily bleeding neck and earlobe from the gyms explosions:S. I consider this to be the most brutal terrorist attack in recent years , cuz despite russia not giving freedom to chechnyans , taking innocent kids hostage like this and killing them is beyond my comprehension. If they have an issue with putin and russia , they can go stick it to him (or try : P) , but leave kids out of it. my view on story** thoughts with survivors and families plz***
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Nine of the hostage takers were reported as being mercenaries of middle eastern origin according to a presidential aide. The recent terrorist outburst in Russia is belived to be due to the blatently rigged elections for a new Chechnyan president, possibly the worst job in the world, the past 3 occupiers of that post were assasinated, the last two in this year. The Chechnyans do indeed have it very bad. They wanted the independance that many of their neighbours enjoyed post soviet union break-up but Yeltsin being the drunken fool he was decided to send in the troops to crush any aspirations of freedom they might have. According to CNN somewhere between 100,00 and 150,00 civilians died in that war which ended inconclusivley. And that's where the whole story of the Chechnyan rebellion began. The involvement of middle eastern mercenaries is confusing this issue slightly. A spokesman for the rebel leader in Chechnya stated that his rebels would never attack civilian targets so all kinds of theories are being played about with. The answers will lie with the three hostage takers captured alive.
It's basically a Palestine vs Israel situation but with the odds stacked even further against the smaller nation. And yes I have to agree with Ice, it is the perfect reason for a war quite possibly backed internationally. This sickened me more than 9/11 and more than any other attack. To intentionally target children is the lowest of the low. I hope nothing like this will ever happen again.
let this be a lesson-never merc again
but on the bright side its great material for film producers and the bbc to make a few million on in a few years
saw a few adverts recently for programes/films terrorists in planes and the 9/11 incident coming along soon, to go in the same catergory as titanic and that film on the space ship that blew up.
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Mushroomhead said:
Im sorry but I dont see money/movies/shows as a bright side on all those deaths and traumatized kids/parents..
M
Maz
Not sure if its true since i cba to go check, but i read somewhere that it wasnt just the Chechnyan rebels involved, but also the more extremist Chechnyans wanting an islamic-state for Chechnya. Which tbh, isnt a just cause for terrorism, fair enough wanting freedom, but that aint it. Altho lets face it, no cause in the world could excuse taking children as hostages, some of the articles ive read in papers are really fuckin sick, like them not being given food or water, and being made to lie face down or risk being shot. jus made me feel sick when i was reading it
I read that the hostage takers had begun excecuting children shortly before the russians broke in, that pretty much made me tear up the newspaper I was reading.
And wtf are you on about Mushroomhead?
And wtf are you on about Mushroomhead?
Once more, whole this sickness is based on a religious conflict. Russians are orthodox catholics, while most of the chechens are muslims. A little part of the chechens are orthodox though, guess which part .
Yup you got it right, the part of the region where the hostage taking has occured. These people are so sick killing children 
I'm with all the posts above for this part, except mushroomhead's one bout the films (though I think it's sarcasm 
)
The chechen conflict is already lasting for a long time, and the chechen catholics having been the allies of the tsar(a hundred years ago), they are still considered as "bad ones".
Now this old (religious) war turned into a civilian war for chechen independance.
.Yup you got it right, the part of the region where the hostage taking has occured.
These people are so sick killing children I'm with all the posts above for this part, except mushroomhead's one bout the films (though I think it's sarcasm ) The chechen conflict is already lasting for a long time, and the chechen catholics having been the allies of the tsar(a hundred years ago), they are still considered as "bad ones".
Now this old (religious) war turned into a civilian war for chechen independance.
About the 10 arabic hostage takers: I believe it's crap invented by mr putin himself.
Why? Here it is (IMO):
1. Putin could justifie killing innocent chechens just by saying "preventive war against terror" and even have the americans with his on this one (Bush is going crazy right now because there could perhaps maybe possibly be some al quaida or other arabic terrorists
)
2. Russia will never let chechenia go because there are incredible amounts of oil over there (reminds me of Bush taking over Irak for the oil fields )
3. Chechens will never accept this because the are not reasonable and go berserk on everything that they don't like.
seems like two big nations are in trouble: USA in Irak and Russia in Chechenia.
/Me points at the fact that Chechenia is a part of Russia and Irak got invaded by the USA, so IMO Russia has "more" the right of not giving them what they want. On the other hand Moscow should care more about the chechens, because their living standard is indeed way below average. But Chechens don't actually want Moscow to help them
Why? Here it is (IMO):
1. Putin could justifie killing innocent chechens just by saying "preventive war against terror" and even have the americans with his on this one (Bush is going crazy right now because there could perhaps maybe possibly be some al quaida or other arabic terrorists
)2. Russia will never let chechenia go because there are incredible amounts of oil over there (reminds me of Bush taking over Irak for the oil fields
)3. Chechens will never accept this because the are not reasonable and go berserk on everything that they don't like.
seems like two big nations are in trouble: USA in Irak and Russia in Chechenia.
/Me points at the fact that Chechenia is a part of Russia and Irak got invaded by the USA, so IMO Russia has "more" the right of not giving them what they want. On the other hand Moscow should care more about the chechens, because their living standard is indeed way below average. But Chechens don't actually want Moscow to help them
The version of the story that I've heard is that one explosive device in the building detonated accidentally, this sparked panic amongst the hostages who then began escaping, the hostage takers then started fireing on the fleeing hostages at which point Russian special forces moved in to try and protect the fleeing hostages with at least some sucess. And yes, the children were kept inside a small building with no ventilation, no food and no water with explosives everywhere. Barbaric indeed. And mush, this is not the forum for your usual humorous self so either sober up or go spam the general area.
Lex_Mortis said:
sorry it was a sarcastic comment, which is still valid as the reasoning for the post is true and is just another dimension to the conversation.
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Twonko said:
The Chechens have been badly treated with their own accusations of rape, torture, civilian murders, etc, by the Ruskies.
Governments can't be seen to bow to terrorist demands and yet people will resort to whatever they feel is necessary to achieve the freedom that they perceive others have. The only solution is to sort out the compromises before it gets to the point where people start to consider murder and suicide as alternatives to living in that situation: Something that seems almost impossible in this global climate of political/geographical insecurity.
No words can really describe what those poor kids must have gone through, hell might be a fitting word. There is much that can be said but so little that can be done. I just hope Putin can come to some compromise on Chechnya, I doubt there well be another Chechnya war again (at least not like the one before). It all depends on how much pressure is put on Putin. Putin is a smart man, he knows that another war will solve nothing and probelry just make things worse. However he is also smart enough to realise that to do nothing will be politically worse for him and will proberly see him overthrown at the next election. 
My thoughts are with the familys of those who lost their lives...
9/11, worst thing I've ever seen, now this... what comes next?
My thoughts are with the familys of those who lost their lives...
9/11, worst thing I've ever seen, now this... what comes next?
Indeed, I was devistated with the outcome of this seige, to the point where I was upset and depressed at the situation.
I personally shed a tear watching Channel 4 news last night where 2 12 and 13 year old sisters were being burried. Their Mother was trying to deal with the grief and understand why someone had shot their children over 40 times in the back while they were running away.
The people of Chechnya do not support the gruesome acts of a minority, however they still have to deal with appauling conditions where people do die on a daily basis because they are being Oppressed.
Personally, I do not believe there is any Al-Qaeda involvement. Puttin is saying this to try and leverage international help for terrorism and he can say that his bad policies were not the reason why these terrorist acts (On behalf of Chechnya) happened. Even if the Chechnyans support Islam and are Muslims, it doesn't mean that they are represenitive of Al-Qaeda.
An absolute disgraceful to see such violence, unjustifyable for any reason.
I personally shed a tear watching Channel 4 news last night where 2 12 and 13 year old sisters were being burried. Their Mother was trying to deal with the grief and understand why someone had shot their children over 40 times in the back while they were running away.
The people of Chechnya do not support the gruesome acts of a minority, however they still have to deal with appauling conditions where people do die on a daily basis because they are being Oppressed.
Personally, I do not believe there is any Al-Qaeda involvement. Puttin is saying this to try and leverage international help for terrorism and he can say that his bad policies were not the reason why these terrorist acts (On behalf of Chechnya) happened. Even if the Chechnyans support Islam and are Muslims, it doesn't mean that they are represenitive of Al-Qaeda.
An absolute disgraceful to see such violence, unjustifyable for any reason.