New movie coming soon.

[JACKEL]

They did, but they where invaded! Also the support from America was for other reasons.

By the way check you PM.

Russians and Americans used every single argument to get in eachothers face that time. or am i completly wrong?

Im not sure how this movie will affect certain things but i would find it very shocking if people replied with violence. I think(hope) muslim people think that they are better and bigger then it, and laugh (like the rest of us does) at Wilders for his movie.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Just watched the movie
It's a wrap up of headlines in newspapers, sentences from the holy quran, movieclips of 9/11, madrid, London and the murder on Theo van Gogh, some voice clips of extremists and imams. Worst things ive seen were pictures of women, children and gays being killed. It's just another show off movie how bad the islam is supposed to be. But Wilders forgets that also in the bible there are sentences which aren't very friendly towards other religions.

What's worst for me is that Wilders doesn't have a single respect for the islam. He knows that in the Islam it's forbidden to picture the prophets and yet he takes the danish cartoons a step further. We've seen that picture, why show it everyone again. We know the impact of it and so be it. Leave them alone, like you wanted to be left alone. Doesn't the bible say: Treat others like you want to be treated? Behave like that then!

The movie is soooo generalizing. Out of the 50 million Muslims in europe there are perhaps 0,001% who dislikes the west in such a way that he would harm any of us. Yet Wilders makes us believe in his movie that everyone is like that. That annoys me like hell!


Wilders!

 

[McNeill]

Watched it also,

I'm not muslim, he has no respect for Islam at all, however there are many, many islamic people I know and have been around who are the kindest people you will ever meet and are very religious.

It is the extremist that take words literally that put a bad image on islam, but all faiths have thier dark chapters and thier own extremists.

The only reason why islam has all the attention as its a faith that many of the 'terrorists' are deemed to have, with the attention in Iraq and Palestiine , suicide bombers, who in the name of Islam kill themselves as it's the only thing they can do against powers such as the USA invading thier country or Israel vast american backed army against a poor country.

I think the literal side of Islam takes things too far and I don't agree with them. Just as I don't agree with alot of things in other religions, but in a world with already allot of hate, this film was not needed.

Disagree with faith and religion, okay. Do a proper documentary on the negative side of religion, but also the positive sides and you have an informative film. This is just, propoganda, hate filled and there is a limit to what freedom of speech should allow when this guy is single handedly managed to offend what, 1-2 billion muslims.

Hes offended me and I'm not even muslim.

 

[sneez]

Just watched the movie
It's a wrap up of headlines in newspapers, sentences from the holy quran, movieclips of 9/11, madrid, London and the murder on Theo van Gogh, some voice clips of extremists and imams. Worst things ive seen were pictures of women, children and gays being killed. It's just another show off movie how bad the islam is supposed to be. But Wilders forgets that also in the bible there are sentences which aren't very friendly towards other religions.

What's worst for me is that Wilders doesn't have a single respect for the islam. He knows that in the Islam it's forbidden to picture the prophets and yet he takes the danish cartoons a step further. We've seen that picture, why show it everyone again. We know the impact of it and so be it. Leave them alone, like you wanted to be left alone. Doesn't the bible say: Treat others like you want to be treated? Behave like that then!

The movie is soooo generalizing. Out of the 50 million Muslims in europe there are perhaps 0,001% who dislikes the west in such a way that he would harm any of us. Yet Wilders makes us believe in his movie that everyone is like that. That annoys me like hell!


Wilders!

True , not many people who believe in the Quran would have any of them extremist idea's.( Quran == bible! ) (especially in holland[west]: like every muslim I know doesn't have these extremists idea's. think freedom is above all.

Yet it still says in their religion everybody who isnt muslim should be converted to islam or is a 'minor'. Yes, it says exactly the same in (almost) every religion, also in the bible, but do you know any country(atm) where they enforce a religion upon you ? (aka, have you ever seen a church in in a Muslim country? where as in the west you have multiple(!) religions living 'peacefully' together). There is just a huge political / economical difference between the West and the 'southeast'.
If you've ever seen the Iran political system you know what I mean. It is heavily influenced by religion, which is a true nono in any 'law enforcing' state.



If you live in a 'free' country you are free to chose whatever you believe.
This movie doesn't show ANYTHING insulting towards muslims.

 

[sneez]

Watched it also,

I'm not muslim, he has no respect for Islam at all, however there are many, many islamic people I know and have been around who are the kindest people you will ever meet and are very religious.

It is the extremist that take words literally that put a bad image on islam, but all faiths have thier dark chapters and thier own extremists.

The only reason why islam has all the attention as its a faith that many of the 'terrorists' are deemed to have, with the attention in Iraq and Palestiine , suicide bombers, who in the name of Islam kill themselves as it's the only thing they can do against powers such as the USA invading thier country or Israel vast american backed army against a poor country.

I think the literal side of Islam takes things too far and I don't agree with them. Just as I don't agree with alot of things in other religions, but in a world with already allot of hate, this film was not needed.

Disagree with faith and religion, okay. Do a proper documentary on the negative side of religion, but also the positive sides and you have an informative film. This is just, propoganda, hate filled and there is a limit to what freedom of speech should allow when this guy is single handedly managed to offend what, 1-2 billion muslims.

Hes offended me and I'm not even muslim.

Yes, Every muslim I've been in contact with (from work and social) are all very friendly and they all believe peace is the way to go. I can also understand this could be insulting to any religious person. (This movie is basically an attack on any religion)

Yet there is a huge difference in the way of thinking between any western country compared to any muslim country.
The muslim country(not all) is too heavily influenced by religion (which is the main problem here)
Yet the western country(not all) has a 'normal' political system Where people can choose what they want to and even succeed in it. There are loads of religious buildings in western countries, variaties from Buddhism to Gothism this would be VERY hard to do in an islamic country.

I agree this movie only shows the bad sides of the Islam, Where the Islam as WAY more better things than 'bad 'things. Problem is there are more muslim fundamentalists than there are other fundamentalists.

[If you are really are conservative it's time to put the past behind you and look at the world in a new perspective] for a better world

 

[Raft^]

I'm not muslim, he has no respect for Islam at all, however there are many, many islamic people I know and have been around who are the kindest people you will ever meet and are very religious.

It is the extremist that take words literally that put a bad image on islam, but all faiths have thier dark chapters and thier own extremists.

Agreed, and a fair point. The Netherlands is known for its tollerance and freedom of speech/religion, which makes Wilders personal campaign against the islam quite rediculous. As you said it though there are extremists everywhere and Wilders can be seen as one of them aswell (imo).

I think the literal side of Islam takes things too far and I don't agree with them. Just as I don't agree with alot of things in other religions, but in a world with already allot of hate, this film was not needed.

Agreed.

This is just, propoganda, hate filled and there is a limit to what freedom of speech should allow when this guy is single handedly managed to offend what, 1-2 billion muslims.

Hes offended me and I'm not even muslim.

Fair enough, I can imagine this film is provocing/offensive, but this is where it gets interesting. I have nothing against muslims/Islam but when I saw some of the clips Wilders used in his film I was offended aswell, as most of it goes against my personal believe of what is right and wrong, however it is up to the individual how to react on such a thing. I take it lightly as I know not all muslims are as extreme as shown in Wilders film.

Infact, the islamic people I know aren't that bothered with Wilders and the things he says, neither are they with the Danish cartoons and the like. In my opinion this is the best way to deal with these issues as it doesn't create a gap between different cultures/people with different religions. Just accept the fact that not everyone on the world thinks the same way as you do.

That is why I think it is a huge shame that there has been so much commotion about this film. It would have been so nice if no one cared about Wilders and his film cause it would've shown that muslim and not muslim people can get along propperly. Right now this is NOT the case, only the huge response BEFORE the movie was shown already proves this, international boicots, threats, and political pressure from muslim countries towards The Netherlands increases this. This only drives us further appart, while we actually had a chance of getting more mutual understanding.

The more we focus on Wilders and on muslim extremists (or any other kind of), the more we forget about what is all about, living together and respecting/accepting other peoples believes/cultures.

Hope I made myself clear, was kinda late and tired.

 

[Geo]

Tbh everytime someone mentions Extremists or fundamentalists , the only thing that comes into my head is Islam/Muslims, as i really dont remember hearing much about any other religion for last 10 yrs. In my own personal opinion/view they take religion too serious and are the cause of alot of the problems with regards to what people think of Islam etc and the negativity aimed towards them.For example its all west this west that with them however i stay in a country and we have mosques , sinagogs (lol spelling fuck knows) etc etc etc and provide for all cultures , however i could not imagine going to an Islamic country and saying "ill have a church over there for that mob oh and build sommat over there for that other mob who worship such and such" So.... with regards to the movie , fair play to the dude sounds like hes just viewing his own personal opinion , if yer not happy dont watch it again.

 

[Lex_Mortis]

Tbh everytime someone mentions Extremists or fundamentalists , the only thing that comes into my head is Islam/Muslims

Christian terrorism

 

[deadly]

The most disturbing thing is that people are more upset about this movie than about the acts of terrorism in the world. Fact is that terrorism in the name of Allah is increasing (even though the Bush administration is trying to stop the... er.. steal oil) and Wilders is warning the western civilization (the Netherlands at the first place) for it. We are closing our eyes for an increasing chance of being struck by terrorism, and to be honest, i don't like it. The mass of the muslim in the netherlands may be peacefull, but in general their religion is more important than our way of living, moral and way of thinking. The past years 'they' have reached more and more (its going very slow, so most people won't notice it) in our country, and thats what Wilders is showing (ofcourse setting extremists as an example for a whole religion doesnt make sense).

Anyway, i think he has a very good point, although i don't agree on the generalizing.

 

[Geo]

After the release, Wilders told reporters that he made the film because “Islam and the Qur’an are dangers to the preservation of freedom in the Netherlands in the long term, and I have to warn people of that.”

I have the same view point when it comes to the UK , i believe that with the growth of Islam in this country paired with uncontrolled immigration , i do fear in the next 10/20yrs if it increases then there will be a religious/race war and it will be fought on our streets all across UK (signs of it allready). And i may be negative when i state this but i really think that this is inevitable and will 100% happen in the UK

 

[deadly]

Indeed Geo, exactly my point. His generalizing in the movie and all the other stuff no normal person would agree on is probably to draw attention - his point is good, though. It's bound to happen someday, in the next 20 - 50 yrs. We'll see.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Didn't the protestant church think just like that centuries ago, when the catholics were part of the netherlands in the south? Because the birthrate under catholic families was much higher than in protestant circles. It didn't happen, we live together in harmony nowadays. The islam isn't that much different

 

[Cazzy]

No religion shall ever be innocent. Through the centuries every religion has spilled blood of innocent people in the name of their God. Fools, that's what they are and what they will ever be.

 

[Geo]

My point exactly and thats why it will become a war and as Wilder states and believes is that this is early sign of things to come and pre-warning others. However the guy will be slaughtered and laughed at and then in some time into future youll have few folk sitting around saying "Shit we was pre warned about this but...."

Peace Out *FuRelig*

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

haha..
people nowadays are so pessimistic about the future. You don't think we can become friends and live alongside each other in peace Geo? Of course there will always be struggles in decision making political issues. But it's not any different now or 10 years ago. Religious christian groups also have different thoughts and ideas than the less religious groups in the house of parliament, but Europe has been going uphill for centuries now and without many religious wars. There will be even less wars in the future than there were in the past. That's what I call a bright side

 

[Geo]

Hopefully your right , from a persons side who has no religion. It is scary seeing one religion being so overly aggressive and rapidly expanding in there beliefs which in my eyes same as all other religions is basically nonsense (bible koran and any other fairytale book thats been written) , they should all convert to rastafari and chill the fuck out and smoke weed every day!

 

[Supermic!]

I think the only thing I objected to in this film was that it was only directed to the Islam religion. I thought zeitgeist showed in a good way that all religions are basically the same shit, except maybe Buddhism. I don't understand how anyone can believe in a "god" who is jealous, murderous and intolerant like all the "supreme beings" are if you just check your bible, quran or any other made up religious fairytale. Those are no gods in my mind, They sound more like dictating power hungry humans.

I also find it funny how so many religious people think of themselves as better than everybody else because they are "good" and believe in god, go to church on sundays or bow down 5 times a day. But then if you look closer at their actions they, or some, are a lot worse. Like catholic priests who molest little boys. Muslims stoning unfaithful women to death, marry away their 13 year old daughters, women only have half the value as men has. Jehovas witnesses letting their children rather die than receive medical care in hospitals. Not treating all people equally some are more worthy than others, churches that invest in weapon stocks and similar. Where are their beliefs then? I guess when it comes to making money those solid beliefs can be put to side.

C'mon most of it is over 2000 year old idiotic values that have no place in modern society. It's written garbage with the only purpose to control people so they give money and property away and don't misbehave or go mad thinking about death or their purpose here. Giving them false hope that they're somehow different from every other living animal or plant on this planet and will go to shiny wonderful heaven where all their friends and family awaits them + 72 virgins who all want their stinking fat body and ugly face of course. I'm sure it's heaven for the virgins too.

About freedom of speech. You don't really have the freedom to say everything that you'd like. For instance the example mc had about threatening somebodys family is illegal.
From wiki: Various institutions in the United States and Europe began developing codes to limit or punish hate speech in the 1990s, on the grounds that such speech amounts to discrimination. Thus, such codes prohibit words or phrases deemed to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, or with reference to physical health or mental health... In many countries, deliberate use of hate speech is a criminal offence prohibited under incitement to hatred legislation.

 

[deadly]

haha..
people nowadays are so pessimistic about the future. You don't think we can become friends and live alongside each other in peace Geo? Of course there will always be struggles in decision making political issues. But it's not any different now or 10 years ago. Religious christian groups also have different thoughts and ideas than the less religious groups in the house of parliament, but Europe has been going uphill for centuries now and without many religious wars. There will be even less wars in the future than there were in the past. That's what I call a bright side

Ignorance is bliss. I'm sure you vote SP aswell.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Ignorance is bliss. I'm sure you vote SP aswell.

and a pessimistic view on life helps?
Yea I vote SP, but I think that wasn't really a secret among most of you. Always did and I don't see me changing my vote any time soon, unless an even more left-winged party will rise.

 

[Cazzy]

Why pessimistic. Let the wars come. A few less mouths to feed. We're overpopulated anyway