New movie coming soon.

[sneez]

http://www.fitnathemovie.com/

Dutch politicus making a movie about the Holy Qoran (the bible for muslims)
Alot of protests in muslim countries while the movie isnt even released yet. He will show in his short movie ( ~15minutes ) The things wich could be better in the Qoran .

Entire Dutch politics say he shouldn't release it, but he still is because of ' freedom of speech '.

What do you guys think about it ?

 

[Menace]

I think Geert Wilders is an idiot. Can't wait to see the movie and the following commotion though.

 

[sneez]

Can't wait for the movie, not the commotion.
And it was already stated before it wont be an insulting movie ( like the danish cartoons . )
Just showing things in the Qoran which 'could' become better in his eyes.

 

[brajan]

A lot of talking in radio going on about it.

I'm not sure what to think about it tbh. About motives and purpose of such movie.
This guy wants to become famouse? Well media already talking about him. He just fells it's should be done because of his faith? I daubt it however we all know it's like playing with matches on a keg of powder.
Some terrorist organisations already said they gonna attack if it'll be released. I guess every man with few brain cells watching news, reading papers just knows it's not a kind of toy he should play.
If it'll happen it's possible that author won't be harmed but as usual innocent ppl may be.
So in the end my question would be "what for?".

 

[endgegner]

Why do something that's just going to piss people off?

 

[subZ]

If Denmark can get so much commotion over a few drawings of Muhammed, I wonder what a movie about the Qoran is going to do..

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

oh a serious discussion in chit chat.. now how's that (perhaps move it into political and social issues before it gets ruined )

Ah well.
Wilders puts the entire western society in geat danger, if he really offends the islam as a religion in his Fitna movie. Fitna is often thought of to only mean 'ordeal' in Arabic. But Fitna refers to so much more than that (see Wikipedia). He already compared the holy Quran with 'Mein Kampf' from Hitler before, so you could guess by that how he will approach the Islam in his movie. He also said various times that Democracy and Islam won't get along together (apparantly he's never been in Jordan).

The problem with the movie is that we in Holland have the freedom of speech. Which has often been refered to last years, since the assassination of the politician Pim Fortuyn who was a great advocate of this freedom. It is seen as one of the most important freedoms we have in Holland and we probably have the most extreme forms of it in the entire world. Wilders can release the movie due to this freedom.

Personally I think that the government needs to approve the movie before it gets released. This can be done under the statement that the movie might inflict a serious danger for the future of the Netherlands, the economy and the western society. If the movie appears to be completely legal then I reckon it's is ok to release it, but he should put in his movie that the movie reflects his own opinnion and not that of the dutch society.

The Islam and the muslim are Wilders' his pet topic. Everyone who vote for him, do that because of his aggresive approach regarding the Islam. But few people know his other political ideas, which are really bizarre. Lower taxes for the richest people, freedom for companies to build whatever they like even if it's bad for nature, an assimilationcontract for Muslim people when they enter our country (it means that they'll have to abandon their religion), removal of the help which people get when they lose their jobs or cannot work due to health conditions etc. (WAO in dutch), full commitment to Israel, no support for the poorest countries, etc etc.

I really think people should think before they support this maniac.

ps. This is the worst timing for me personally to release this movie. I was really hoping I could book my holiday to Iran this year (one of my dream travels) and I'm affraid I have to cancel that, when this movie really uproars the Islamic society

 

[Lex_Mortis]

Lets play the devils advocate...

oh a serious discussion in chit chat.. now how's that (perhaps move it into political and social issues before it gets ruined )

Ah well.

Wilders puts the entire western society in geat danger, if he really offends the islam as a religion in his Fitna movie. Fitna is often thought of to only mean 'ordeal' in Arabic. But Fitna refers to so much more than that (see Wikipedia). He already compared the holy Quran with 'Mein Kampf' from Hitler before, so you could guess by that how he will approach the Islam in his movie. He also said various times that Democracy and Islam won't get along together (apparantly he's never been in Jordan).

Wilders doesnt put the entire western society in danger, fanatic religious people do.
Who is the problem? A moviemaker OR a group of religious fanatics who are eager to use violence.
Imagine meeting either and think which one you are more likely to survive.

The problem with the movie is that we in Holland have the freedom of speech. Which has often been refered to last years, since the assassination of the politician Pim Fortuyn who was a great advocate of this freedom. It is seen as one of the most important freedoms we have in Holland and we probably have the most extreme forms of it in the entire world. Wilders can release the movie due to this freedom.

You are saying freedom of speech is a problem? Because if we didnt have that, the movie wouldnt be released, thus freedom of speech is a problem? People who oppose freedom of speech are a problem, not the other way around.
People have died for these rights, show some goddamn respect and protect such values.

Personally I think that the government needs to approve the movie before it gets released. This can be done under the statement that the movie might inflict a serious danger for the future of the Netherlands, the economy and the western society. If the movie appears to be completely legal then I reckon it's is ok to release it, but he should put in his movie that the movie reflects his own opinnion and not that of the dutch society.

So the state needs to review media wether its ok or not? That's pure censorship, if you want that sort of stuff I suggest you go to Russia.
Our prime-minister should make a short yet clear and strong statement that it's the view of a single person, not the society/country. He represents our country and should take the lead in this. A shame he doesnt have a spine for that.

The Islam and the muslim are Wilders' his pet topic. Everyone who vote for him, do that because of his aggresive approach regarding the Islam. But few people know his other political ideas, which are really bizarre. Lower taxes for the richest people, freedom for companies to build whatever they like even if it's bad for nature, an assimilationcontract for Muslim people when they enter our country (it means that they'll have to abandon their religion), removal of the help which people get when they lose their jobs or cannot work due to health conditions etc. (WAO in dutch), full commitment to Israel, no support for the poorest countries, etc etc.

I really think people should think before they support this maniac.

Some of those views/ideas/goals are quite weird and not even feasible, however I do agree with lowering taxes (not just for rich).
Taxes in The Netherlands are way too high if you ask me, this is part of the reason why I'm strongly thinking about emigration. If The Netherlands want to prevent a braindrain and keep their high-education citizens then they need to make it attractive to stay. Of course everyone else has a different idea about how an utopia should look like and be, but I'm sure "high taxes" isn't in anyone's view. But enough digressing...

ps. This is the worst timing for me personally to release this movie. I was really hoping I could book my holiday to Iran this year (one of my dream travels) and I'm affraid I have to cancel that, when this movie really uproars the Islamic society

Speaking about maniacs.. Ahmadinejad is a proper nutcase.

 

[pykenike]

im with lex mortis on this one. Freedom of speech is a good thing and should be there all the time at all costs.

However i can't deny the fact that i think it's going to cost a lot of money due import prohibitation of Dutch (or even Europe) products.
You should think that the importance for wilders should not be bigger than the importance of a whole nation
Even so i still support his freedom of speech.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Lets play the devils advocate...


Wilders doesnt put the entire western society in danger, fanatic religious people do.
Who is the problem? A moviemaker OR a group of religious fanatics who are eager to use violence.
Imagine meeting either and think which one you are more likely to survive.

The whole point is that those fanatics will never be gone. We all realize that. They can attack us anywhere, anytime. It's a new way of fighting wars. Small, can happen any moment and it's quite terrifying. But why put oil on the fire when you know that it can only bring us problems. The economy and the people are being put in danger. It is known that some nations will already stop their cooperation with Holland if Wilders decides to release the movie and it appears to be very offending. If that's the case, then Wilders DOES put us in danger imo. Our jobs are at stake and the wellbeing of our families as well.

You are saying freedom of speech is a problem? Because if we didnt have that, the movie wouldnt be released, thus freedom of speech is a problem? People who oppose freedom of speech are a problem, not the other way around.
People have died for these rights, show some goddamn respect and protect such values.

People have also died for the freedom of religion (Catholics/Protestants) in our own country. Yet then again, Wilders wants people to assimilate their faith in Allah and the Holy Quran when they enter our nation. Isnt that just as important as our freedom of speech?

So the state needs to review media wether its ok or not? That's pure censorship, if you want that sort of stuff I suggest you go to Russia.
Our prime-minister should make a short yet clear and strong statement that it's the view of a single person, not the society/country. He represents our country and should take the lead in this. A shame he doesnt have a spine for that.

Normally I wouldn't be happy with this. But when the safety of the people and the nation is in real stake then I must admit that it should be reviewed first before it gets released. You and I know how special this occasion is.

Some of those views/ideas/goals are quite weird and not even feasible, however I do agree with lowering taxes (not just for rich).
Taxes in The Netherlands are way too high if you ask me, this is part of the reason why I'm strongly thinking about emigration. If The Netherlands want to prevent a braindrain and keep their high-education citizens then they need to make it attractive to stay. Of course everyone else has a different idea about how an utopia should look like and be, but I'm sure "high taxes" isn't in anyone's view. But enough digressing...

Taxes are high indeed, but then again how do you want to solve the problems we have when the government doesnt get enough money? Living under the Amsterdam Ordnance Datum comes at a price. In the future it's not unlikely that we have to pay even more. We are a strong nation and even though we pay loats of taxes we're still one of the wealthiest nations in the world. Moving to another country will not give you more money.
Taxes for people that earn alot can be even higher. Why does anyone want everything his heart desires, while seeing other people suffer, because they can't buy food and clothes (yes it still happens even in Holland).

Speaking about maniacs.. Ahmadinejad is a proper nutcase.

Of course he is not the best leader for us westerners. He had won the elections in Iran because he proved the nation that he is a charismatic leader. If you read books about it now, you will notice that the people in Iran wouldnt have voted for him again, but did because he is a very charismatic leader. People couldnt think of the things he would do to Iran. But then again like we have the freedom of speech in Holland as a major freedom. In Iran they have the freedom to build whatever they like. Nuclear powerplants are forbidden? Well then why can Israel build them, that's what they think.
Our vision on Iran has been blinded by the western media. They make us think that it is one of those nations that will harm every western citizen that comes there. But in fact i've seen reports that western tourists could even meet Ahmedinejad personally. Iran is happy that people visit their country and they show that. Currently there's some traveling program on dutch television (3 op reis) and it shows you how friendly it actually is. Besides why do you think that major dutch traveling organisations (like Koning Aap, Sawadee and Djoser) have Iran in their magazines, but don't have a holy country like Israel.

 

[brajan]

Freedom of speech ... ok but there are some borders which shouldn't be crossed. You can call it common sense.
Putting other people in danger just from own benefits has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

 

[sneez]

Freedom of speech ... ok but there are some borders which shouldn't be crossed. You can call it common sense.
Putting other people in danger just from own benefits has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

That's the problem. The movie isn't released yet and the entire world is upside down.
He already said himself it won't be as 'insulting' as the Danish Cartoons.
He is putting people in danger but not for his own benefits ? He is showing his opinion in a small movie for everbody to see who wants to see it. If you don't want to see it, just dont look ?

Posted 2001:

"While scholars of the Koran debate whether or not its teachings justify violent jihads against non-believers, Christians in dozens of Muslim countries live with the fearful reality that they risk martyrdom at the hands of Islam-as they long have."

and

"From reports by government and human-rights groups, a pattern clearly emerges: Predominantly Christian countries generally respect religious freedom, as do Buddhist countries (absent Communist domination). The Center for Religious Freedom concludes, "The religious areas with the largest current restrictions on religious freedom are countries with an Islamic background."

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-80099512.html

This is still happening as of this day. Why should it be illegal making a movie about it showing (probably) the truth.

edit: ps. im not religous myself in any way and I respect every other religion there is, I talk friendly with loads of etnic (sp?) people and they are all very friendly.

 

[Kaka]

Geert Wilders he's an idiot ya know, wont surprise me if he got shot tho.. will be his own fault then

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Geert Wilders he's an idiot ya know, wont surprise me if he got shot tho.. will be his own fault then

doubt so. He's far from an idiot. He's clever enough to win 9 seats (out of 150) in no-time. He focuses on one issue. The issue which gets him the most voters. He's really clever with that. But nevertheless he really overdoes it. Every time when we think he becomes quiet, he finds another way to reach the frontlines of the newspapers. This one is his biggest hit so far. Strangely enough he gets most votes from the poor part of our society. The part which will drasticaly become even poorer when they vote for him. And I really wonder how much votes he will get once they know that.

Wilders is not a dumb idiot. He's smart but he goes nuts over 1 issue, which makes him a psycho.

 

[LatinoMi5]

Wilders FTW

 

[HUEY]

I think that the Danish cartoons should be printed in every newspaper in the world. Free speech is free speech. These ppl don't have a sense of humour.

 

[McNeill]

I think that the Danish cartoons should be printed in every newspaper in the world. Free speech is free speech. These ppl don't have a sense of humour.

In which case can I use words to be racist and abusive, not think about my actions, threaten your family, do as I please all under the the term 'freedom of speech'?

That's funny, I wonder why people are shot dead, violance from the words people use all over the world exist?

Ahhhhh, they don't have a sense of humour!

That's a very naive view you have.

I don't like the Iranian president, but his words have been manipulated and put out of context to serve western media and political drives. This is from someone who can understand the native language.

Make one trip to Palastinian area and see the suffering, perhaps read a few unbiased history books. There are innocent people on both sides of any conflict, because Iran backs a state which is less favourited to western countries it is deemed a terrorist state.

Since persian empire, when was the last time Iran ever invaded a country?

I know this is the P&S forum and there are rules, but a big Fuck you to politics and how everything is twisted.

 

[sneez]

True, the president of Iran is a really smart and thoughtfull person. Okay, there are some things wrong (which the western media always are eager to show) But if you ever see Teheran it's really a 'normal' city like any other, with people like you and me.

The 'I don't like the Iranian president,' is because \ i think/ he can have weird politics (ie. building nuclear power plants in a critical situation). Furthermore I can't see him doing much wrong, the political system is very complicated and it's not like he is doing everything alone. (they also have higher courts etc.)
(that is also a huge difference in western and islamic politics, in western countries religion is 'almost' -not counting usa- absolete but in Iran-and other countries- spiritual people play a huge role in politics.)

Also the Danish cartoons never threatened any family, the biggest controversy was about the picture of the prophet with a bomb as 'helm' (turban?). It is just a political cartoon like any other which has been around for centuries! (I myself remember most political cartoons from WW1 and WW2 from middle school and helped me 'view' the situation better. )

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Since persian empire, when was the last time Iran ever invaded a country?

Didn't Iran counterattack Iraq when Iraq was pushed back on their own soil? That was the reason I think why America supported Iraq back then.

 

[McNeill]

They did, but they where invaded! Also the support from America was for other reasons.

By the way check you PM.