Is Religion Defensible?

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But look at the down sides of alcohol, liver and kidney failure etc etc.

You can also look that people when drunk are more likely to cause themself or others harm through irrational behavious.

Okay, I know this isnt the 'norm' but neither are suicide bombers. Maybe i just like to have an open mind about these things.

If it helps people (which I am sure you will agree it does) then I cant see a problem with it.
 
Originally posted by ProPain
Everybody should have the right to believe what they want to believe. As long as they don't push it down somebodies throat i don't care.
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ahhh but, what about those religions which compel the followers to spread the good word to all the unbelievers?

Nothing wrong with them cramming it down my throat, as ong as they don't get offended when I point and laugh at them, and chase them down the street shouting "hey everybody, lets all laugh at the freaks!!" ;)

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the state should be setting out to exterminate religion, but it shouldn't be helping them to flourish either.

Originally posted by ProPain
as for my remark about muslim extremists.
It still stands, and only a small percentage of them actually do suicide bombs. But the silent majority is funding this and approving it.
People who have to much to lose or are just plain afraid fund operations.
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:thumb: the silent majority is as much at fault for staying silent and not condemning the actions of the fringe nutters. If your community looks to you, as is the case with many imams, and you say nothing against something like Sept 11, you are showing your approval.
 
Well religion and state often went hand in hand.
Through monks nuns etc a lot of knowledge was stored.
I think religion also kept us from the darkages by storing a lot of information which otherwise would have been lost forever.
Religion also brought us a lot of good things.

Just because there are a lot of rotten appels in between doesnt mean that religion is bad.
For example The bible has been cleansed / rewritten 151 times.
How does anybody know what the bible said orginally?
If god was all loving i can't believe that the original was telling people to kill gays.

Religion is beautifull, so is communism as an idea.
Too bad these are just dreams which can not be realised because humans are weak and flawed.
 
errrr, Propain?

Religion caused the dark ages. It was religious wars and the fall out from them that caused Europe to descend to that level.

And during that time, the clergy were vocally oppossed to anyone learning to read or write except for the nobility and the church.

Strange that you arrive at a number such as 151. That's one I haven't heard before, and I doubt if the NIV guys at Hodder and Stoughton would agree.

If anything, the bible has been cleaned up to make it slightly less brutal, not the other way round.

This "god of love" is a fairly new concept, as the god of the Old Testament is an absoute monster!

Like it or not, the fact that no major world religion now performs animal sacrifice, or human sacrifice for that matter, reflects on how far human society has evolved.

Religion does not help, if anything, it drags us backwards.

In scotland, we recently removed a clause in local government legislation which prevented schools from discussing issues of sexuality with pupils, in effect, preventing homosexual teenagers from getting any support or information about health, welfare etc.

The campaign to stop this change was lead by the churches, and the language used was about as hate filled and venomous as you can get.

They are absolutely mired in the past.
 
well What i learnt at school was 151 times.
Guess it is hard to determine how many times it was rewritten.
I think it would be very hard to determine if we made god a bit nicer in the bible or not.

On with the discussion.
I agree that the church has old hasioned ideas about the modern culture.
Not supporting safe sex for years and years was a bit old fashioned.
and publicly calling homosexuality a disease ain't good either.
Fact remains we have tons and tons of wisdom from munks and the likes, which can not be a bad thing.

I personally am a person who believes in a higher power but absolutely don't believe in worshipping him or her.
I am not sure if i would like to call it a god.
I would rather see it as something which helped creation , but is purely explained by logic.
Call it aliens or something
well just my 2 cents gtg
 
Originally posted by jwer_NL
almost every war was shuved towards religion but it was all greed, possesion and territory

the fact people just don't follow their religion is what makes this world a worse place..
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Dunno 'bout other countries, but in the UK the Church used to have loads and loads of land, gold etc. They made sure kings handed the loot over to the church when the Kings died.

So religion itself is about greed, possession & territory! :D
 
As long as they don't push it down somebodies throat i don't care
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But they do!

That's why right now, as an athiest, I'm having to attend church just so I can get married in one.

My finance is a church goer and prayers b4 bed each night and has never once forced my into religiuos act (apart from wanting a church wedding)

But the fact remains, I've been pressuiresed by the Church of Scotland into joining the church, attending church, and giving money to the church, just so I can attend my own wedding. I love Vanessa with all my heart, we could be married anywhere as far as I'm concerned or not at all (wouldn't love her any less), but religion is pushing religion down my throat.
 
aye society's church rules suck.

as for me i would never wed in a church (well except if carmen elektra insists :D)

I also think it is kinda rascist that married people have tons of fiscal advantages.
But people who live together can not enjoy all those advantages.
It's like marry or feel the sting in your wallet
 
Originally posted by ProPain
I also think it is kinda rascist that married people have tons of fiscal advantages. But people who live together can not enjoy all those advantages. It's like marry or feel the sting in your wallet
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I'm sure thats not what you mean. ;)

Anyways, you dont get any real benefits anymore from being married as against living together. (well, not in the UK anyways)
 
Originally posted by Goose
That's why right now, as an athiest, I'm having to attend church just so I can get married in one.
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But they wouldnt be asking you to do it if you didnt want something from them.
 
But technically I don't

It's society that has decreeded that 99% of weddings happen in churches, and like I said, it's my finance that's one of those 99% that wants the church wedding and white (sry ivory ;)) dress.

I'm not influenced at all by the pressure that the church is imposing, but they are still continuing to cram it down my throat.
 
Originally posted by Jay
But they wouldnt be asking you to do it if you didnt want something from them.
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yeah, but all you want is the use of the nice building.

It's not as if the paedophile in the cassock actually adds anything to the wedding other than a creepy feel and strange smell of cabbage now, is it?

Ian.
 
To Goose, but because you want what your girlfriend wants then its therefore what you want. You can get married anywhere these days, even the london eye. But you choose to be married there, therefore go by their rules.

To wint, well, its not what i would choose for a wedding, id be up for one on the tyne bridge :)
 
personally i would go for a keg of beer / some soccer on the telly /sloppy sex and a bit of UT after :D
just my opinion.
 
Church provides help for the poor and helps people believe that they have a chance(something to life for) and off course gives old persons something to do on sunday :)

at least in the netherlands and getting all that old crap back about the church what they did 500 years ago doesnt mather, its more important what they do now aint it
 
lol.

Culture is a seperate issue altogether, start a new thread :P

@ Rampage:
I wonder just how differently the churches are viewed from nation to nation...

If the dutch view of the churches is generally positive for the good stuff they do, I wonder, is it because of how those churches behave?
 
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