Gay Marriage

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Mughi said:
OK, other species having homosexual interactions goes against the whole "homosexual is against nature" thing.

And, you are aware that men have both male and female genes right? And females have only female genes? Yeah?
Men have X and Y sex chromosomes and women have X and X. So there is your male and female gene thing ....

i learnt about that the other day :D
did u know they once did a test on all the really aggressive people in american prisons, the murderers and the like, and they had an extra male chromosome, which made them uber macho sorta thing!

see, im not as stupid as i llook



ok maybe i am
 
-AmaZ- said:
just a few examples :o

that's right - a few examples of the correct way to react to bigots, racists and other low life. The fact that this discussion is even happening is disgusting - that even in this day and age we have people so twisted up by their own insecurities that they feel the need to discriminate and show hatred for others on the basis on skin colour, gender, sexuality...

The fact is that whether someone is gay or not is something they have very little control over - three are factors of genetics, there are factors of upbringing, but personal choice is not a factor. You could take any one of sobo or ice's comments and replace "gays" with "blacks" or "jews", and have exactly the same thing - bigotry and prejudice against your fellow humans.

Society would be better without people like this :(

oh, and just for the record:

Ice said:
if gay sex is in the genes, then that would possibly be the biggest fuckup nature has ever come up with... until i see prove, i won't believe it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wgay13.xml read it and weep.

Ice said:
Next is that humans will have both male and female genes and can have sex with themselves

You truly have no clue what you are talking about, do you? perhaps you should actually read a basic book on human biology before mouthing off with your "opinions".

Men *DO* contain male and female genes - Men have 1 X chromosome and 1 Y, women have 2 X Chromosomes - All men contain at least one female X chromosome in every cell, and yes, men contain the complete DNA record required to reproduce with themselves.

as for sex with themselves? hell yes. I do it all the time, as does every other man alive :wanker:
 
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Mughi said:
OK, other species having homosexual interactions goes against the whole "homosexual is against nature" thing.

And, you are aware that men have both male and female genes right? And females have only female genes? Yeah?
Men have X and Y sex chromosomes and women have X and X. So there is your male and female gene thing ....

of course i know that, but i mean like 50/50 percent. stop acting the smartass, if i start my wise guy mode there will be nothing but corrections here, we all don't want that :tired:

and i don't believe some website article, you can find anything on the web if you search for it ;)
 
Ice said:
of course i know that, but i mean like 50/50 percent. stop acting the smartass, if i start my wise guy mode there will be nothing but corrections here, we all don't want that.

1 X and 1 Y is 50/50. and that's not just a statement of mathematical fact, it's also a relfection on how sexual reproduction in humans (as in all mammals) works. The development of the X and Y chromosomes is a biological struggle between male and female that gets stronger with every generation.

Male embryos with incorrectly expressed Y chromosomes (ie, not enough "male" influence) don't properly develop a placenta and die. Those with incorrectly expressed X chromosomes (not enough female in them) develop a much larger placenta, which can kill the mother because it causes internal bleeding by drawing too much from the mother's womb.

Homosexuality is believed to come mostly from the maternal side - it's just another development in the ongoing male-female x-y chromosome struggle.

The differences between male and female are much mroe subtle than you seem to think, and in fact, whether someone is actually male or female is not as simple as checking the undercarriage - there's an enormous range from the super agressive monsters of men with XYY disorder, through the normal male range, to effeminate men with hormonal problems, to indeterminate people in the middle with some features of both, through manly women, to the normal female range, and beyond to androgenous (and sterile) females with XXY disorder.

The fact is *all* humans begin life as female - our embryos are identical in development for the first few weeks until the Y chromosome's influces start in males - testicles and ovaries develop from the same prototype organs in the early zygote, the penis and clitoris are the same organ, developed in a different way. Men have nipples, and can even develop fully functioning breasts with the right hormonal upsets.

As with almost everyone who expresses redneck opinions about homosexuality, you demonstrate zero squared knowledge about the actual biology of human sexuality. Life is not as simple as you want to think it is.

If you actually have any desire to understand things, rather than speaking from a position of laughable ignorance, start by reading Matt Ridley's book "genome", http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/185702835X/026-4720424-3438066 in particular chapter "X" about the X/Y conflict.

Ice said:
and i don't believe some website article, you can find anything on the web if you search for it ;)

The daily telegraph is not just some crappy little tabloid, and the article is reporting a peer reviewed scientific paper backed by 18 months of detailed research.

I'm not wasting my time looking up peer reveiwed scientifically published references for the sake of someone demonstrating a level of prejudice that I find absolutely disgusting. You are the one with the defect - you go educate yourself, ffs.
 
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Do you mean "more"?


My dictionary can't find that.

You going on about my bad biological phrasing there (at a totally unimportant point of the discussion) kind of proves that you are out of arguments.
As much as you want to, you are not a woman by 50%. You only got 50% of the female genes.

My arguments are as good as yours, because arguments don't count here. It's all about opinions as I said x times (don't want to count).

Furthermore, opinions don't need to be backed up with anything. That's why it is called opinion. Opinions tend to be subjective.

Weather you accept my opinion or not, that's your very own problem - but for sure not a reason to try and teach/convince me again and again, that's just pointless. Time for you to recognize that.

I dislike gays.

And last, but not least: If I am on your ignore list as you say, how the hell can you read my posts? You must be damn interested in my posts when you make everyone think I was on your ignore list, but I am actually not. If you like what I am writing, you can just say so. Saves alot of time.
 
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Wintermute said:
that's right - a few examples of the correct way to react to bigots, racists and other low life. The fact that this discussion is even happening is disgusting - that even in this day and age we have people so twisted up by their own insecurities that they feel the need to discriminate and show hatred for others on the basis on skin colour, gender, sexuality...

Well actually ice nor sobo themselves said they hate them , simply dont support it. I dont think anyone here actually said i "Hate" or "Strongly dislike" homosexuals ;)
 
Furthermore, opinions don't need to be backed up with anything. That's why it is called opinion.

They should at least have a sensible basis though. And if you want people to respect or even understand your opinions then you will have to back them up, whether you can or not.
 
-AmaZ- said:
Well actually ice nor sobo themselves said they hate them , simply dont support it. I dont think anyone here actually said i "Hate" or "Strongly dislike" homosexuals ;)

how about instead of hiding behind the big boys state an oppinion of your own or shut up?

Ice, seriously, if your opening line is based on a simple typing error, why are we still talking?

Ok can't think of anything to say that hasn't been all ready. . . :smurf:
 
Hey dude , i was in this thread from very begining with same damn opinion so dont give me bullshit :)
 
-AmaZ- said:
Hey dude , i was in this thread from very begining with same damn opinion so dont give me bullshit :)

yea differences being, Sobo and Ice are older, they know what they are saying and why they are saying it. You don't. You start off with one of the most outrageous statements ive seen, then you say that we should create a new religeon for gay people, seriously? Followed up by the "calling gay people faggs isnt derogetory" All your doing is slating off gay people in a different way form post to post, other people have said how they disagree, which i still think is predjudiced, and wrong, but at least they are consistant. You're young, don't start getting into convos like this that you quite clearly don't understand.
Grow abit up first.
I was simular to you a few years back, i would say what ever needed to try and seem cool, or just controversial, i grew out of it.
 
-AmaZ- said:
Well actually ice nor sobo themselves said they hate them , simply dont support it. I dont think anyone here actually said i "Hate" or "Strongly dislike" homosexuals ;)
Read the thread again amaz...
Ice said:
i hate gays, so what?

And sobo although he has put it more nicely appears to think the same
 
Ice said:
Weather you accept my opinion or not, that's your very own problem - but for sure not a reason to try and teach/convince me again and again, that's just pointless. Time for you to recognize that.

I dislike gays.

And last, but not least: If I am on your ignore list as you say, how the hell can you read my posts? You must be damn interested in my posts when you make everyone think I was on your ignore list, but I am actually not. If you like what I am writing, you can just say so. Saves alot of time.
Personally, I have assumed that you dont actually believe what you are saying, but are enjoying the arguement so are making up more and more outrageous stuff to back up what you have said.

If you had left it at "I hate gays because I hate gays" then there wouldnt have followed the ensuing entertainment. However, you insisted on "I hate gays because its unnatural" - which it isnt. And follow up that arguement with "nature shouldnt be used as any sort of guideline" - even though you just used it as a basis for you hating gays.

He has replied to your posts because I have pointed them out to him as the "reasons" got more and more amusing.

I can accept that it is your opinion, but that doesnt mean I shouldnt try and point out why I think it is wrong.
I cannot accept that people "hate" other people for absolutely no reason, just because. And when the reasons for hating someone have absolutely no backing, of course it should be pointed out.

I can see you are getting bored of it all if your arguements are now entirely revolving around spelling mistakes and "well, if you disagree with me you must agree with me really", but it has been entertaining if nothing else. I am sure you could have made up another couple of "reasons" why gays are bad, mkay ... how about its a virus and if we put all the gay people on an island nobody will catch "gay" and the population will be cured of it - heard that one before. Or how every homosexual male is trying to get into your pants wether you want them to or not? Thats a common one.
 
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Well Said, Mughster.

two things - when you are subscribed to a thread, vbulletin mails you new posts whether the poster is on your ignore list or not, so I have been getting to read Ice's rambling in my email. Secondly, as she says, Mughi has been having a right old laugh at the redneck, and passing on the laughs. :D

I suspect that Ice has jumped onto spelling mistakes for the simple reason that he knows that I am right about one thing at least - he has absolutely no knowledge about human genetics.

This is a really interesting thing to study, a great subject with millions of surprises and wierd things - it has been one of the most interesting subjects I have ever looked at. (example: women are actually two completely different people in one body - when a woman's embryo forms up, she has two "X" chromosomes - enough genes to make two people, so one of the X chromosomes becomes dormant, and scrunches up into a clump of material called the "Barr's Body". except, throughout the woman's body, clumps of cells form where the mother's X chromosome is present, and other clumps where the father's X chromosome is present. This causes a whole world of interesting and unusual things to happen - in the extreme cases, woman have been seen with a tigerskin effect on their skin, because the two types of cells react differently to sunburn! amazing!)

When Ice says "As much as you want to, you are not a woman by 50%. You only got 50% of the female genes.", this just shows how little he knows. Whether you like it or not, that is *EXACTLY* what Humans are, except the numbers are much, much stronger.

The biological differences between men and women are so slight, so subtle.. it's more like men are about 90% female and only 10% male. It obviously suits macho men who are insecure of who and what they are to try to ignore this, but at the blood and bone level women and men are nearly identical. As far the genetics of it goes, with the right technology two women can produce healthy offspring, but girls only, as they don't have any Y chromosome - two guys can produce both boys and girls as they have the "full set".

So, why am I still posting? because I have been there. I used to have the same twisted pointless opinions tha have been displayed here. When I was part of a church everyone there hated gays (and catholics, jews, immigrants etc). I have since had many conversations with intelligent and sensible people who pointed out the prejudice for what it was, and asked me to think about what I was saying.

"Opinion" is not a magic shield to hide behind here - if someone turned arond and started spouting white supremacy shit, no-one should just accept it as their opinion and move on. If someone tells us the world is flat, we don't just accept it as an opinion - we correct it.

This conversation only ends two ways - either the folks that are coming out with blind prejudice go read a book, have a coffee, whatever it takes to stop and think and act like rational human beings, or you walk away looking like a redneck who either can't or won't use their brain.
 
Mushroomhead said:
Ice, seriously, if your opening line is based on a simple typing error, why are we still talking?
(same quote for winter's post)

Sometimes I think that I am chatting with spam bots here (intelligence wise). I obviously just did that to show what wintermute was doing. Exactly the same, going on about an unimportant mistake.

And everyone who has stated that I hate gays (mughi, cece) it's useless to chat with anyway. If you read my post - I have corrected it long time ago - you will see that it says "dislike". Do you only read the first three words, or do you not read my posts at all?

That's the point in the discussion (twisting facts) where it becomes really useless to discuss on, because now it's not only me that is biased about gays, but you are biased about me aswell it seems.

As good as you can put your posts, Wintermute, they often are pretty off-topic and useless, because you fail to see the right point in other's posts.

You are not only wasting your very own time, but my time aswell.
 
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Ice said:
You are not only wasting your very own time, but my time aswell.

Maybe you should spend less time talking about what you meant and more time discussing all the points that have been brought up in an attempt to educate you. If all you have to offer is that you "dislike" something then you might as well not bother because there's nothing anyone can say that would create a discussion and an "opinion" is worthless without reasoning behind it.
 
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Ice said:
You are not only wasting your very own time, but my time as well.

Well if you truly won't be convinced that your opinion is hateful and sickening... I truly hope you have a short, miserable and painful life.

burn in hell, redneck.
 
This has actually given me cause for thought ... a fair whack of my view has come from the point of view that "gayness" is genetic, what if it isnt?

There would be two other options in that case - that it is down to upbringing so set during childhood, or its an adult decision after the most formative stages of growing up.

If its set during childhood, the outcome it pretty similar to the genetic version of events, its not something the person can influence themselves.

If its an adult decision and everyone can choose to be straight or gay or bi or even jump between them at will, well ... so what? Its not one man, one woman, are threesomes just as inherently wrong? People who regularly practice bondage have a "non-majority" sex life. If it is between (however many) consensual adults why is it anything of interest to anyone else.

I really do find it bizarre that so many people get up tight about what other people get up to in bed.
 
ice if you hust have an opinion which you wanna share i suggest you move it to chit chat
in this forum ppl backup their opinions , and if you actually had some kind of intelligence and
didnt just spout shit i would respect your opinion. But since all say is "i hate gays cos it aint natural" then you are being an ignoranus.

Simply put there will be more and more homosexual people on this globe in the future, why cos ppl see that you cant exclude them from society because they have a different sexual preference and the taboo is slowly crumbling.

in short, backup your opinion with some intelligence and i'll be able to understand your pov might even respect it, but aslong as you're a child saying such things and then claiming you are right is absolut bollox. Most people here are posting serious stuff and trying to spread their wisdom while all you do is hang on to ridiculous mindsets which are outdated by a 100 years.
 
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Mughi said:
I can accept that it is your opinion, but that doesnt mean I shouldnt try and point out why I think it is wrong.
I cannot accept that people "hate" other people for absolutely no reason, just because. And when the reasons for hating someone have absolutely no backing, of course it should be pointed out.

Well said... All this hate too gay people suprises me, why can't u respect ppl as they are? And as for the marriage, why not just respect gays when they want to get married if they love eachother?