Change to the TIW in LeagueAS?

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uZi

uZi

Bannned
Jun 8, 2001
6,461
48
South Wales
Meant to post this a while ago, but forgot.

Was talking to timo about the TIW (im sure we all know what it is now) that is coded into LeagueAS, as i wasnt aware that it was enabled or not, since mini still seems stupidly powerful to me (mostly playing on the pug serveR). Now he told me the rate is roughly fixed at 13-14 shots/sec, which doesnt sound excessive to me.. faster than DM maybe, but that was the intention as AS players thought it was too weak in DM.

However, the main reason that the damage given in the CB12 and Purestats (which is now the standard in DM and CTF afaik) is so much lower than that of AS is that they have changed the damage given per shot.

In standard UT the damage per shot is variable, with a base damage of 9 (possibly 8 - im too lazy to go check this :)) and a random number between 0 and 8 (this is from memory again..) added on to the 9. So the damage is anywhere between 9 and 17 per shot, which is quite a big difference. This damage calculation hasnt been changed in the LeagueAS TIW, which explains why sometimes you will kill VERY fast with mini, and others no so fast.

[Note for reference: the damages in the purestats mod is base damage 5 with a random number up to 3 added on]

What i propose is to keep the base damage where it is, but instead to reduce the random number to say 3 (This number.. and also the base damage should be open to suggestions and testing obviously). This way we still maintain a relatively high damage mini compared to DM/CTF, but we get rid of the large randomness in damage per shot, which is what i personally see as a problem in AS, especially as the mini is probably the most used weapon. With a good aim you will still be able to drop an opponent in a second, but it should get rid of the amount of lucky kills where a mini jus sweeps over someone you wern't even aiming at.

Plz note this is nothing to do with lockdown, which has croped up in TIW discussions, i think lockdown has a place in AS - as it disrupts launches and hammer jumps etc.

Thanks for reading - plz discuss :)
 
Without re-reading everything on the forums I’m sure this has been discussed before.

I am however in favour of testing this, one of the main reasons I am virtually inactive in assault is because things felt slightly different and as you mentioned you would sometimes just be dead within a second or have lost 90% of your health out of nowhere.

If any testing is to be done I’m sure I can speak to MyM and perhaps test it on the PUG, this isn’t anything for certain but I will have a word.
 
Actually mc, the discussion about TIW, at least without checking every post, was mainly reguarding fixing the rate of fire rather than the damage per second, in fact when i was asking Timo about it, he didn't even know the damage per shot was variable. I don't think anyone even mentioned this side of the "problem".. i mean this isn't technically tickrate related, but its been part of every TIW mod which was made for DM.

IMO, any random things in FPSs is a bad thing, i mean every other gun (lets ignore pulse as the sawing effect is at least in the control of the player) has set damages per shot, or at least based on distance from the explosion/combo etc, whereas mini doesnt.

Cheers for that brilliant observation Riv :x
 
i feel the mini needs that power against sniper in assault. the sniper is a quick killer..... and on many maps defenders or attackers dont have sniper but never both and that would be an advantage maybe :(
 
ye mini is already weaker then be4 and with those guys around here its still common that u get a heady be4 u can pin em down with mini even on closest ranges...

ofc mini is handy if u cant realy aim (same for flak) but to be realy deadly it needs as much yet different skill as sniper. Those who specialised on that wont be threaded very fair if u reduce it once again. Were not touching the refire rate of sniper or its damage either.
 
you think the mini should kill faster than a sniper head shot??!?!

gg balance..

right now the damage per second a mini can inflict is insanely high compared to every other weap, except flak.. which is only realistically able to deliver those damage at point blank.. a lot closer than mini anyway. And of course the special shots.. like HS from ripper and sniper.

From my experience in AS if its sniper vs mini.. the sniper either gets a HS straight off, or he dies.. once the mini has started hitting him he normally aint got a chance. The rate of fire of the mini had to be fixed due to its variance with different tickrates (i aint gonna go into this cos its not the issue) But the rate of our mini has actually been chosen on the high side anyway.. along with the same HUGELY VARIABLE damages.. all i'm asking is to bring in a less variable damage.. even increase the base damage to say 10-12 and bring the max random number down to 2. This way we will have a more consistant damage given, rather than the lucky/unlucky "WTF dead in 1/2 a second?!?!?" and "WTF why didn he die?!!?!?!" type situations.

Stop being so scared of losing your mini raping - this isnt what will happen.. if you can aim you will barely notice the difference.

At least give it a chance?
 
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People are just afraid of losing their AS skills because the only thing people do is using the minigun. AS is really living by the graduation of the minigun, lol. UT isnt supposed to be a 2 weapon game. Do you know why people use sniper so much? Because in 2 shots youv got more chance to kill someone minigunning you than with any other weapon. Balance the weapons, and people can finally use more weapons than the 2 weapons used now.

Hi fury aka minigun only ;((((( :p: (Btw, if ur really that good with a minigun as u claim u are, then there wont be much difference.)
 
deadly said:
People are just afraid of losing their AS skills because the only thing people do is using the minigun. AS is really living by the graduation of the minigun, lol. UT isnt supposed to be a 2 weapon game. Do you know why people use sniper so much? Because in 2 shots youv got more chance to kill someone minigunning you than with any other weapon. Balance the weapons, and people can finally use more weapons than the 2 weapons used now.

Hi fury aka minigun only ;((((( :p: (Btw, if ur really that good with a minigun as u claim u are, then there wont be much difference.)
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k .. so .. u wanna see sniper vs bio gun ? minigun vs flak? wot ru trying to say here? weapons are alrdy used in there best circumstances, flak, round corners, shock in corridoors, bio on opening doors, etc.

dont see a problem tbh
 
^yako^ said:
I win any flak-duel....:rofl:
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gg ;p

tbh minigun is quite powerful , i remember defending Dungeon doors , sniping from the right tower in a couple of pugs , then a guy just comes up with a mini and kills you in 2 seconds from low , and from that range that fast is a bit stupid tbh.
 
deadly said:
Hi fury aka minigun only ;(((((
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nugh sed.

and hai play 1on1 pugserver with mini only and u will just laugh about it aka 1hit kill
but well like they will ever change minigun while fu2 is leagueadmin :rofl: gg !vote democracy ;(
 
ok i dont think people actually read Uzi's post.

He's not saying that the mini will be less powerful. He's saying the damage that a minigun does is (in part) random, and that we should reduce the range of "randomness".

I'm all for this, it fucks me (and especially rick when he's playing me ;)) off that your minigun sometimes kills in a second and other times takes bloody ages. What i want to know though .. is this also the case with primary minigun fire? because killing people at long range with primary minigun seems fairly consistent to me.
 
Joko said:
ok i dont think people actually read Uzi's post.

He's not saying that the mini will be less powerful. He's saying the damage that a minigun does is (in part) random, and that we should reduce the range of "randomness".

I'm all for this, it fucks me (and especially rick when he's playing me ;)) off that your minigun sometimes kills in a second and other times takes bloody ages. What i want to know though .. is this also the case with primary minigun fire? because killing people at long range with primary minigun seems fairly consistent to me.
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k then damage in 1on1 pugserver is random high.
 
Was trying not to reply to everyone, and let discussion go.. but in a 1v1 the pug server will be on UT's default settings with no TIW on - so you just get the high rates of fire from fluctuations in the tickrate.. so you cant really compare it :)


Oh and joko: AFAIK the mini damage is calculated the same for both primary and secondary.. its probably more down to the lower fire rate.. so ya dont end up with stupidly fast kills.. also its more accurate so you probably hit with every shot, which means you get a more uniform distribution of damage, with secondary you sometimes get only high damage bullets hitting (i know this isnt the best way of putting it) so there ya go
 
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afaiik it same for primary... the consistence of it must be the precision it has... secondary has far more spread and therefor the chance of randomly completely miss even on moderate distances
 
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