UT3 in the UTA league
- Thread starter Meteor
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it would be relatively easy to turn fraghub into a ut3 game site In an hour I could knocked up some graphics to make it look ut3 like. but I think your missing the point with hacking the game to add old things like RL and HL as it will only attract us from UTAS if you want to get new people in then you need it to be standard and accessible and you will only attract new blood to a game site like this if warfare game type offers something that doesn't fit into the clanbase style of game management. the ctf, ictf, itdm and dm will always be a winner for clanbase but more sophisticated smaller subscribed games tend not to do so well there.
I'll get some graphics ready tomorrow or monday and see if we can get the ball rolling ...but I am really not interested in a ut3 league that is trying to be uta adding rl and hl etc etc the way I see it if you wanna play uta then play uta if you want to play ut3 then lets play it as it is and fix bugs if we need to as a community but we need to build a ut3 community first.
there is also the question of is fraghub UTifide enough would a more descriptive domain be better for example www.unrealnetwork.eu etc
I'll get some graphics ready tomorrow or monday and see if we can get the ball rolling ...but I am really not interested in a ut3 league that is trying to be uta adding rl and hl etc etc the way I see it if you wanna play uta then play uta if you want to play ut3 then lets play it as it is and fix bugs if we need to as a community but we need to build a ut3 community first.
there is also the question of is fraghub UTifide enough would a more descriptive domain be better for example www.unrealnetwork.eu etc
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Agreed there is no point trying to mold the game into something its not gonna be "UT99 AS" if you want play UT99 then do so , if you fancy a change and something new and alot more active then UT3. Its really pointless to form a new community on the idea that we can change this and change that and make a few AS maps and have an updated UT99 AS this is just never gonna happen tbh. UT3 Warfare played the way its supposed to be played , make changes only if it is required for UT3 league/ladder this will attract more people. Players dont want to come join up to a UT3 Warfare ladder and find out that its had that many changes tbh , they want to come and play it as intended. As we say though time will tell for this and i know ill be active from kick off with UT3 and back to clan matches here if it happens or if need be which i hope it doesnt playing elsewhere in an active ladder.
Also i do think a domain name change as Rich stated would attract more players aswell.
Also i do think a domain name change as Rich stated would attract more players aswell.
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True, its quite pointless to turn it into ''UT99 assault''. I doubt that it will attract much people if you do so. I know I wont be playing if its gonna be exact the same again. 
A new domain name would be best aswell yeah, but the league should be formed asap aswell if we want to succeed I think. Then people can advertise before the game comes out and get hold of alot of players before they go to other leagues etc.
A new domain name would be best aswell yeah, but the league should be formed asap aswell if we want to succeed I think. Then people can advertise before the game comes out and get hold of alot of players before they go to other leagues etc.
Yeh, some good points Rich; however since there has been little in the way of proper public demonstration of the Warfare mode, it may actually be a complete pile of crap that won't appeal to anyone and have the slightest bit of longetivty anyway (a-la Assault 2k4).
So, still nothing in stone on what this is going to be like, but I certainly think it's not going to be anywhere near what people are expecting from here at least. Then again, I may be completely wrong on this, and it could be a huge hit.
I don't fully agree with the "its quie pointless to turn it into UT99 assault" statement though Des; what's wrong with taking out the crap from the new mode, and bringing in some of the best parts that we're all used to?
Surely where 2k4 failed was that 'they' didn't understand how Assault had evolved into to being played; and surely this is why 'they' haven't made the same mistake in calling it something it's not?
Resetting expectations aside - if we are going to run UT3 ladders that the likes of CB are not, then yes, it will probably be suitable to keep it seperate from the utassault.net entity.
Public sources said:
So, still nothing in stone on what this is going to be like, but I certainly think it's not going to be anywhere near what people are expecting from here at least. Then again, I may be completely wrong on this, and it could be a huge hit.
I don't fully agree with the "its quie pointless to turn it into UT99 assault" statement though Des; what's wrong with taking out the crap from the new mode, and bringing in some of the best parts that we're all used to?
Surely where 2k4 failed was that 'they' didn't understand how Assault had evolved into to being played; and surely this is why 'they' haven't made the same mistake in calling it something it's not?
Resetting expectations aside - if we are going to run UT3 ladders that the likes of CB are not, then yes, it will probably be suitable to keep it seperate from the utassault.net entity.
i heard there´s a actor that makes it possible to build AS maps
so we could build smaller maps and without that vehicle stuff
we could re-size those warfare maps and "config" them 4 AS....
maybe i get finally a editor that doesn´t crash
so we could build smaller maps and without that vehicle stuff
we could re-size those warfare maps and "config" them 4 AS....
maybe i get finally a editor that doesn´t crash
I agree that we should not try to turn UT3 into a UT99 AS mod, else we won't get much new players. Just look at the 'Unreal Tournament Revolution' project that wanted to turn UT2k4 into a UT99 mod, the project died about 2 weeks after its release! New players like to play it how it is meant to be played, not having to learn 10000 special tricks that only UT99 people know. Imho we should only add the Serversetup and Matchmode functionality that allows us to smoothly run the league with some comfort. Thats our big advantage to Clanbase.
And to really keep it alive we should put both web sites together. Imho one reason why fraghub was empty was that it was seperated. A domain change into something that sounds like "unreal" would also be a good idea.
just my 2 cents
And to really keep it alive we should put both web sites together. Imho one reason why fraghub was empty was that it was seperated. A domain change into something that sounds like "unreal" would also be a good idea.
just my 2 cents
I totally agree with what you have said Cratos though I know that it could be a nail in the coffin of utassault.net if it goes wrong
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I think the FragHub.net domain name is perfect, it says that it offers a wide variety (potentially) of gametypes for various different games (UT99, UT3) and I think the .eu ending to a domain name isn't too cool personally - I don't think we should give up on the prospects of a UT3 North American League or anything especially because potentially a lot of those people could join and donate money.
very nice points of u guys 
my thoughts are sumth like:
keep it as plain as possible
i hate big complicated shit like clanbase ^^
put the whole thing into 1 site, its risky indeed, but imho worth the try! fuck everything if it fails lol ;p
make it look nice and cool, like this very site, because this site just ownz that clanbase piece of crap!
dno about domain, what smant said makes sense imho!
hm dno exactly what else atm :O
but basically if the whole thing looks awesome stylish and cool and blabla bla not too big, a fuckin mass of people shud be in for good!
my thoughts are sumth like:
keep it as plain as possible
i hate big complicated shit like clanbase ^^put the whole thing into 1 site, its risky indeed, but imho worth the try! fuck everything if it fails lol ;p
make it look nice and cool, like this very site, because this site just ownz that clanbase piece of crap!
dno about domain, what smant said makes sense imho!
hm dno exactly what else atm :O
but basically if the whole thing looks awesome stylish and cool and blabla bla not too big, a fuckin mass of people shud be in for good!
Well, about the whole 1-domain thing, would it be possible to have FragHub display all information of UTA in FragHub design, but still retain UTA as a seperate entity and allow players to still go to UTAssault.net to manage our clans etc?
What I'm thinking of is sort of like the Rooster Teeth website: http://www.roosterteeth.com/home.php and http://www.rvb.roosterteeth.com - displaying the same information but obviously with a different template/style. That way UTA is unharmed (for the most part) and FH still can display UTA information and possibly get UT3 people to be interested in UTA!
I also think that if we're opening FragHub to UT3 we should try and open it up to ALL gametypes, then after the first 6 months - 1 year we can see which ones are popular and which aren't and focus the league accordinly. I think major gametypes like DM/tDM CTF/vCTF should be represented purely for the numbers of people they'll attract, and the more people we get the more people who will donate money, etc. UTA is a little limited in the fact that it only represents assault. When we open a CTF ladder 5 years after the game is out it's bound not to be successful for two reasons: A) It's 5 years too late - something we must not make the mistake of doing here!! and B) Who wants to play CTF in a place named Assault? FragHub is the perfect name.
What I'm thinking of is sort of like the Rooster Teeth website: http://www.roosterteeth.com/home.php and http://www.rvb.roosterteeth.com - displaying the same information but obviously with a different template/style. That way UTA is unharmed (for the most part) and FH still can display UTA information and possibly get UT3 people to be interested in UTA!
I also think that if we're opening FragHub to UT3 we should try and open it up to ALL gametypes, then after the first 6 months - 1 year we can see which ones are popular and which aren't and focus the league accordinly. I think major gametypes like DM/tDM CTF/vCTF should be represented purely for the numbers of people they'll attract, and the more people we get the more people who will donate money, etc. UTA is a little limited in the fact that it only represents assault. When we open a CTF ladder 5 years after the game is out it's bound not to be successful for two reasons: A) It's 5 years too late - something we must not make the mistake of doing here!! and B) Who wants to play CTF in a place named Assault? FragHub is the perfect name.
Smantie good point raised about if it is only gonna cater for Warfare then for growth of fraghub for UT3 we would certainly struggle as there will be quite a few fps sites and catering for all mods and if they get a stranglehold on certain gametypes early then for us to add these in year or 2 time will result in prob failure. As always iCTF and CTF will be massive for players , Warfare is as yet debatable. Team DM i think is a good ladder to have aswell.
Unreal-Fraghub would be good name as we are catering for Unreal and not any other FPS.
100% play gametypes as intended to be played ( changes kept to a minimum)
Winter Cups FTW
Could be good
Unreal-Fraghub would be good name as we are catering for Unreal and not any other FPS.
100% play gametypes as intended to be played ( changes kept to a minimum)
Winter Cups FTW
Could be good
I think this is one of the reasons fraghub never took off because uta still existed so noone from uta used it along with ut2k4 not being very good.
I am so loathed to say this but if we do get fraghub up to speed for ut3 then we need to be fully committed and take the UTA user base over to it completely or it will fail. I know there will be many nay sayers as it removes or changes the identity they associate themselves with but the bottom line is the league would be the same just under a different name and we would retain the utassault.net domain then forward it to fraghub so any old members who return will be directed to the new identity.
I think running two sites in tandem duplicating the same information is a waste of time as we need to commit all attention to the new identity.
As for running other game types I think this is a very good idea but unfortunately it has so many inherent problems with regard to staffing, servers and members. In my opinion we should take 2 or 3 game types at most and really do them well for an example UT Assault, Team fortress and Unreal Warfare (those are just off the top of my head) we are not in a position to compete with clanbase so we shouldn't try, we should do what we do best and expand on it one thing at a time.
We will not create a credible CTF, DM and TDM league/Ladder that is sustainable and has longevity, we will get a few folk in for curiosity and friends of uta players who currently play those game types in clanbase etc but we can not offer the incentives or the recognition in the gaming community to make people stay here who play those game types without investment as this really is clanbase bread and butter. iCTF/iTDM could be sucessfull but it would be very difficult to pull players away, but clanbase really dont run the gib ladders very well and the gib players often have the NW players thinking they are > gib has a huge user base we could steal some of that.
What we do have is a dwindling UTassault league and the possibility to ride the wave of ut3 with a couple of its niche game types such as warfare and gib and maybe HLTF or something that fits our mold.
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I agree that we should not try to turn UT3 into a UT99 AS mod, else we won't get much new players. Just look at the 'Unreal Tournament Revolution' project that wanted to turn UT2k4 into a UT99 mod, the project died about 2 weeks after its release! New players like to play it how it is meant to be played, not having to learn 10000 special tricks that only UT99 people know. Imho we should only add the Serversetup and Matchmode functionality that allows us to smoothly run the league with some comfort. Thats our big advantage to Clanbase.
And to really keep it alive we should put both web sites together. Imho one reason why fraghub was empty was that it was seperated. A domain change into something that sounds like "unreal" would also be a good idea.
just my 2 cents
Yeh some good points - could really do with getting hold of Rel@x to piece together some plans on merging the sites.
Sorting the remote server setup stuffs should be fairly easy since we pretty much have that down to an art currently; either migrating the 2k4 stuff, or the 99 stuff should be doable from what I've read so far.
Will be trialing out the Unreal Engine 3 editor/toolkit this week; not sure if I will be able to stitch in the UT3 demo files, as I expect it's locked to the specific licensed product I'm getting it for. Should be able to get a good feel of object structures though :cool:
Rich-
I disagree with you on many points. I believe we have the infastructure more or less to set up a great league semi-competitive with clanbase. We have a much easier website to navigate, server setup and booking is so much easier, we don't have retarded rules, and we have a good community base as well as a respectable history in the Unreal Gaming industry. As I said, if we expand more we're more likely to attract more people. Mods and Admins will come just fine, we have quite a decent community already and I'm sure there are five or six well-qualified individuals who are willing to stand up and do the job as a UT3 league admin. Paying for servers shouldn't be a problem either, we can get some sponsorships to help out but in the end I think a lot of people will be willing to donate as well if we have more people. 4 years down the road we don't have to regret selling out UT99 to UT3 and be faced with a dying community because we invested in just one or two gametypes which got old. DM/CTF are the biggest two gametypes now and they're not going anywhere. We should invest in them now to get the return for later.
EDIT: And yes, I agree witht he whole UTA merging with FragHub, but I'd love to see UTA kind of keep it's own identity. YES everyone who signs up to UTA and everyone who has signed up ought to get their username and password across the two domains, but I'd still like to see UTA be it's little niche, perhaps pointing to the part of Fraghub that that links to UTA and keep the general layout, theme and ease of it exactly the same more or less. I don't think people are ready to see gigantic changes in UTA like that, so making it as seamless as possible would be best obviously.
I disagree with you on many points. I believe we have the infastructure more or less to set up a great league semi-competitive with clanbase. We have a much easier website to navigate, server setup and booking is so much easier, we don't have retarded rules, and we have a good community base as well as a respectable history in the Unreal Gaming industry. As I said, if we expand more we're more likely to attract more people. Mods and Admins will come just fine, we have quite a decent community already and I'm sure there are five or six well-qualified individuals who are willing to stand up and do the job as a UT3 league admin. Paying for servers shouldn't be a problem either, we can get some sponsorships to help out but in the end I think a lot of people will be willing to donate as well if we have more people. 4 years down the road we don't have to regret selling out UT99 to UT3 and be faced with a dying community because we invested in just one or two gametypes which got old. DM/CTF are the biggest two gametypes now and they're not going anywhere. We should invest in them now to get the return for later.
EDIT: And yes, I agree witht he whole UTA merging with FragHub, but I'd love to see UTA kind of keep it's own identity. YES everyone who signs up to UTA and everyone who has signed up ought to get their username and password across the two domains, but I'd still like to see UTA be it's little niche, perhaps pointing to the part of Fraghub that that links to UTA and keep the general layout, theme and ease of it exactly the same more or less. I don't think people are ready to see gigantic changes in UTA like that, so making it as seamless as possible would be best obviously.
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The UTA webside representation for UT99 is in all aspects sophisticated.
To not use a similar sophisticated step would mean regress. To use fresh UT3 artwork as entry screen and easy to use
buttons that pass trough are possible.
Incase possible a link that redirects from the UT3 suface bidirectional also to UT99 would be a good choise too.
A fraghub domain can help to attract players not mainly focused on assault to find an easier entrance.
To play the trump cards that this league make it unique and likable is the winning key. All other dreams will follow.
To not use a similar sophisticated step would mean regress. To use fresh UT3 artwork as entry screen and easy to use
buttons that pass trough are possible.
Incase possible a link that redirects from the UT3 suface bidirectional also to UT99 would be a good choise too.
A fraghub domain can help to attract players not mainly focused on assault to find an easier entrance.
To play the trump cards that this league make it unique and likable is the winning key. All other dreams will follow.
