The Dutch Situation atm...
- Thread starter BRaiNRaiN
- Start date
-
Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Nope, not just you.Lex_Mortis said:I think that would be great
but thats prolly just me...
The muslim faith is in exactly the same situation as the jewish faith was 100years ago... and we all know how that turned out!
I think making a second movie is plain silly tbh, we got the idea and it is being discussed and everything
so why make a part 2? And in some ways i gotta agree with ramp, what theo did was essential since nobody else is saying anything about it. Maybe ppl get mad when theo said something but it angers me to see imaams telling people not to integrate, that we are pagans who will burn in hell and asking ppl to start a jihad
those things anger me, the plain idea that they can move to the netherlands and bring their own beliefs / cultures and then live here expecting ppl to follow those ideas. The schooling of extremists in the netherlands HAS to go, there is no room for that here. Either that or more of these "incidents" will occur and ppl like wilders will assume power and do it the hard way
so why make a part 2? And in some ways i gotta agree with ramp, what theo did was essential since nobody else is saying anything about it. Maybe ppl get mad when theo said something but it angers me to see imaams telling people not to integrate, that we are pagans who will burn in hell and asking ppl to start a jihad
those things anger me, the plain idea that they can move to the netherlands and bring their own beliefs / cultures and then live here expecting ppl to follow those ideas. The schooling of extremists in the netherlands HAS to go, there is no room for that here. Either that or more of these "incidents" will occur and ppl like wilders will assume power and do it the hard way
Martz said:You do?I'm not even up to date on the current situation in NL, but by saying that people who have different beliefs, traditions or appearances should change to fit into your society is very harsh, and even possibly even racist. Why shouldn't they "let muslims do EVERYTHING in this country", when you are able to do everything you want in the country too. You have the right to pick a religion, worship and pray; why shouldn't every other dutch citizen?
I think what the original poster was trying to say was that part of the problem these days is that extremism flourishes in so many "western democracies" because people are terrified that if they speak out in any way against some of the things happening, they will be branded as "right wing", "racist" and "intolerant".
No offence Martz mate, but you are often pretty "right on" yourself a lot of the time, clocking people for stuff which could in no way be described as racist.
1. If an Imam preaches hatred and intolerance in a Dutch mosque, Dutch citizens should be able to speak out against it without being branded as "racists".
2. Forcing "immigrants" or "asylum seekers" into deprived areas is of course going to make them "stick together", which naturally will only increase tensions in an area. On the other hand, people who make no effort to integrate into a community will only put the backs of the "locals" up.
It's swings and roundabouts mate. The thing which ticks people off is a lot of these religious extremists come to western nations and behave in ways which (i) would see them arrested in their own country and "tripping on the step into the cell M'lud", and (ii) which they would not tolerate from "foreigners" in their own country.
You can't have it all ways you know - you can't be expected to spout off all your own evil and be protected from that of other people simply because your religious/social/sexual/gender grouping is "minority of the month".
If you come to a western democracy seeking to enjoy its benefits, you should (i) respect that country's own rules, laws and social conventions, (ii) contribute to that society and not just take from it, (iii) not try to get special tratment under the law just because you feel you deserve it, and (iv) accept the fact that it is a different country, where things are done differently, but that this does not make its native citizens a bunch of "infidel dogs" who deserve to burn for all eternity.
Last edited:
BRaiNRaiN said:
Actually, if you bother to read the Koran/Qu'ran or the words of Mohammed, you would see that its there in black and white - the stated goal of Islam is the eventual conversion of everyone to the Islamic belief. Its just that some people present that fact in different ways to suit their own purposes.
[Mohammed rules on conquering the world (p188-189, Ibn-E-Majah):
When you meet an infidel give them three choices:
1. Invite them to embrace Islam.
2. If they do not accept the proposal, then they must surrender and pay tribute.
3. If they reject both alternatives, then fight them mercilessly. ]
[( Qu'ran 2:193): “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and all worship is for Allah alone.” ("Fitnah" means the worshipping of other gods than Allah)]
So, there you have it. Can't be much plainer than that. Every bit as objectionable as Christian expansionism.
Last edited:
I haven't read the koran either but doesn't it make sense that some modern day muslims don't interpret like it that or act like that, the same way as modern day christians don 't go around plucking eyes out, etc? Otherwise I seem to know a few muslims who are very poor followers because they haven't set fire to any infidels, suggesting that maybe the violence and hatred are confined to the fundamentalists.
The bible has different interpretations in different areas where evil/devil/holy spirit, etc, relate to an individual's spiritual ascent rather than actual absolute truths or diabolical characters. Reading the koran is one thing, understanding how it is interpreted is another and ascribing the same interpretation to an entire race is naive and/or dangerous
The bible has different interpretations in different areas where evil/devil/holy spirit, etc, relate to an individual's spiritual ascent rather than actual absolute truths or diabolical characters. Reading the koran is one thing, understanding how it is interpreted is another and ascribing the same interpretation to an entire race is naive and/or dangerous
the problem is islam is still 20.000 years back and it has no place in the western world yes the christians also wanted to make the whole world believe in 1 god but the believe adepted and became open people may think whatever they want etc
evolve if u wanne call it that but the islam is still in the stoneage imo
thur put it very well
evolve if u wanne call it that but the islam is still in the stoneage imo
thur put it very well
From my limited reading of the subject there is as you say a faction that want to live in the stoneage and make their version of religion dictate the politics of the region which would involve a lot of head chopping and bad relations with the West. And this indeed would be bad but to describe it as "Islam" is wrong. And to say that all the people- or even most of them- think that way, or want that, iis not necessarily the truth and only creates a bigger wall to understanding wtf is going on, just the same as we're not all capitalist pigs sitting about in the filth of our own debauchery.
The reasons *why* the religious fundamentalist nutters have gained influence over there is the interesting thing imo. And also to consider whether the best way to influence the MIddle East to accept democracy is to bomb the shit out of them based on a bunch of lies.
Nothing's ever that black and white.
The reasons *why* the religious fundamentalist nutters have gained influence over there is the interesting thing imo. And also to consider whether the best way to influence the MIddle East to accept democracy is to bomb the shit out of them based on a bunch of lies.
Nothing's ever that black and white.
i dont think the muslim religion is 20.000 years backward, in fact that sounds rather ridiculous
just because they have other morals and values doesnt make em dense tbh, problem lies mainly with muslim elders who often are looked up to, they have a very old fashion way of thinking and they inspire others to think like that aswell. Atm there are many discussions about changing leadership in the muslim culture to prevent such things from happening again.
just because they have other morals and values doesnt make em dense tbh, problem lies mainly with muslim elders who often are looked up to, they have a very old fashion way of thinking and they inspire others to think like that aswell. Atm there are many discussions about changing leadership in the muslim culture to prevent such things from happening again.
Hmm 20 years, well if you ment 20,000 is still well off since Islam is only arose in the 7th century. Also have you ever heard of the dark ages? Christianity plagued Europe as a tool for empowerment over the stupid and poor. In a way you can see parity in Islam. What may have been the dark ages for Europe were the golden ages for the Arab and Islamic region of the world. During the "dark ages" the Muslim part of the world advanced more than any other part of the world. Europeans only caught up 500 years ago. We then pushed on forward thanks to the renaissance, which really flourished in Holland as it being one of the first republics. In your Amsterdam city hall if you have been you may have seen the statue of justice trampling on avarice and anger*. This is a symbol of the ethics of what your country was built upon. If you as a nationalist believe you represent your country and what it stands for then your very wrong. If your just after peace in your country then how do you expect kicking innocent people out of “your” country will help make anything better. There are obviously extremists on both sides, however you (or maybe the media) only chooses to see it from one side. My guess is that 90% of the people are just fed up with the racial hatred on both sides. So long as you allow yourself to succumb to racial hatred there will always be a problem. Getting rid of the extremists is Hollands main goal to defeat this problem, this is not just Islamic extremists, its also the nationalist extremists.
We have the same problems here in England; however they seem a lot milder than what you are currently experiencing in Holland.
*My knowledge on Holland’s history is limited so if I am wrong please correct me rather than flame.
**I got bored of writing so I cba to check for mistakes
We have the same problems here in England; however they seem a lot milder than what you are currently experiencing in Holland.
You seen in England for the past 50 years or so ago if you were of central Asian origin you were deemed to be a Paki (short for Pakistany) even if you were of Arab origin, to present day this slander still exists. About 7 years ago this changed to a Kosovan again if you came from Eastern Europe you would be called Kosovan. Now in the present day if you come from anywhere other than the UK your will be called an Asylum seeker. This really stems from the chav culture which embraces ignorance and makes them an easy target for the nationalist extremists. Statistically you have more chance of being killed by your TV than being a victim of crime from an asylum seeker. You have more chance of being killed by your trousers than being killed by an asylum seeker. The biggest threat to society is not chavs, asylum seekers or Islamists but ignorance.Some Random Racist Chav said:
*My knowledge on Holland’s history is limited so if I am wrong please correct me rather than flame.
**I got bored of writing so I cba to check for mistakes
Build better relations with the Muslims in your community so the average Muslim is not pushed towards the extremists. There is no magic wand or over night solution and most definetly the solution is not to banish every Muslim from your country. The fact that every Muslim is classed as one shows to me that your are totaly segregated socialy within your community, you need to break this barrier. Once your community is almost as one then it will be almost impossible for the extremists to thrive and survive.
I really can't be botherd to write anymore (i need to go to bed
)
I really can't be botherd to write anymore (i need to go to bed
)well most here are pushing it way over the top, the dutch culture has always been one of tolerance. And tbh i see this in most cities and villages the problem is that apparently our justice system is so mild on offenders that the netherlands is slowly becoming the "wild west". This attracts a lot of extremist minorities which come here and ruin it for the rest. The events that occured here are pushing public opinion against muslims which is complete bullshit, the media is just blowing up these events and all the brainless gimps are hopping on the "throw em all out" bandwagon
imo extremists of all creeds should be dealt with swiftly and harshly, if we don't our society of tolerance will be gone coming elections. One of the better plans i read about was that imaams should have studied in the netherlands and keep the government informed about what they preach, a second one was that the dutch secret service would send muslim molls to mosques to learn about what they preach.
imo extremists of all creeds should be dealt with swiftly and harshly, if we don't our society of tolerance will be gone coming elections. One of the better plans i read about was that imaams should have studied in the netherlands and keep the government informed about what they preach, a second one was that the dutch secret service would send muslim molls to mosques to learn about what they preach.
Hey, fair enough. Other people have contributed a lot more valuable content to this thread I think. Theres been plenty of good debate and input from lots of sides and points of view.Thuringwethil said:
With regards to Warchild, the poster you are quoting, "racist" may have been the incorrect word or phrase for me to use, but to discriminate or have hatred against any group or category of people that come to your country - "that are different to me" is just plain wrong in my opinion. It falls under some term of racism, intolerance or religiousism. I don't know specifically which without looking at a dictionary and defining the exact quoted phrase. It certainly isn't a mindset which embraces other people and their beliefs though.
I don't think anyone has posted anything racist to the extent they have only posted it to offend people. I think it's just an ill-formed point of view. If that was the case, I wouldn't have responded in a post, there would have just been a ban placed since racism isn't tolerated on these forums. I've never claimed to always be right or infallible.
Rob made an excellent post above that actually offers a sensible solution: integrate with your community regardless of where they come from, and their religious beliefs. In the end, it will make you stick together and be stronger as a community and country. Rather than helping out "your own" and sticking to traditions.
lol dont take 20.000 year so serious I was just making a point!
and our values are just way to different then theirs !
we got that woman/men got the same rights but their leaders cant even shake a hand of our female politicians doesnt that offend u when u wanne talk to him about culture!
and our values are just way to different then theirs !
we got that woman/men got the same rights but their leaders cant even shake a hand of our female politicians doesnt that offend u when u wanne talk to him about culture!