Proposed Rule Change: Bottom Division Promotion.
- Thread starter Wintermute
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With respect that was about a single division 2v2 using points (like the old 2v2). e.g. if the best pair of players enters main division with say 200pts (i.e new clan no past winning record) they would find it very long road to top the current champions on 4000pts (who have a very good record of winning matches over the last x months).
The problem with any percentage points based system is that the top has nowhere to go so keep getting lots and lots of points, and nor does the bottom, losing points.
wintermute, they can't really choose their position since their challenge has to be accepted by the clan in that chosen position - and if the clan has a position above another clan in division 5 that have won 3 matches, and accept the challenge, and is beaten, then the rising pre-holding-zone-clan is "worthy"? i mean - the clan that had won 3 matches had the same option...
I dont believe so. If you get challenged by a HZ clan you cant reject it. And if there better than you (IE. div 1/2 clan) than you've just been raped of your position.
nah Fluid, thats not the rule at the moment..
The rule is that Division Five clans cannot refuse a challenge from a Holding Zone Clan..
Ian.
The rule is that Division Five clans cannot refuse a challenge from a Holding Zone Clan..
Ian.
ok - but if you got clan A in top of division 5, clan B with 3 victories somewhere below clan A in division 5, and clan C in the holding-zone - then clan A is in some way better than clan B, and if clan C beats clan A then clan C is obviously in some way better than both and that's shown in the system as it is now 
the only thing that might have to be changed then is what should happen if there's a draw.
the only thing that might have to be changed then is what should happen if there's a draw.
Originally posted by FluidEye
ok - but if you got clan A in top of division 5, clan B with 3 victories somewhere below clan A in division 5, and clan C in the holding-zone - then clan A is in some way better than clan B, and if clan C beats clan A then clan C is obviously in some way better than both and that's shown in the system as it is now
the only thing that might have to be changed then is what should happen if there's a draw.
Problem is still the same; i.e: in div1: if a pos5 clan beat a pos1 clan, they are obviously better than the pos1 clan...but they wont swap places, they'll get 10% of their points.
On another perspective: if a topclan has problems and fall apart and needs to restart, they should see the fall to hz as a punishment, not a leap-jump month towards higher divs (in this case div4). Obviously they had problems, so....
i don't think it's about "falling apart" and thus "need to restart", it's either or. if they don't need to rebuild the clan with other members and thus feel the clan has changed so much it's a new one. what's strange in this topic is that some clans got irritated of good clans terorrizing the natural inhabitants of division 5 and 4 - but now you're asking them to stay yet atleast another month in division5?! if the clan isn't good, then they probably won't beat the first clan in division 5, and if they are - well people here have shown that they don't want them there anyway, so let them have their easy win and move on - wasn't that what was asked for?
div 5 seems enough. either they think it's unfair, or they wish to avoid playing those new/old clans
As it is the 4 clans who got promotion from #5 end of jan have spent at least one whole month in #5. Then of the six clans that currently make up #5 only 3 of them have been there longer than a month. And only one player from one of these 6 clans has voted and commented - the clan he's in being an ex-Div#3 due to relegation.
Look at the attached pictures of division#5 showing two months from last year. If you got clans that can't win then you'd punish every new clan. Every new clan would need months to get a shot at promotion in those situations. The new good reformed clans will just have to beat the 'poorest' clans of the league repeatedly, which doesn't sound like fun. Rememebr most of div#5 is made of new clans, then the next chunk is clans that are already in there, and then one clan that has been relegated (if any).
Look at the attached pictures of division#5 showing two months from last year. If you got clans that can't win then you'd punish every new clan. Every new clan would need months to get a shot at promotion in those situations. The new good reformed clans will just have to beat the 'poorest' clans of the league repeatedly, which doesn't sound like fun. Rememebr most of div#5 is made of new clans, then the next chunk is clans that are already in there, and then one clan that has been relegated (if any).
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Why are people posting what they voted? If your gonna do that at least go to the effort of giving some new reasoning on your decision.
If your gonna do that at least go to the effort of giving some new reasoning on your decision.
i first voted yes, cause it does seem to be fairer then clans being able to shortcut a division and take a promotion spot just before a month ends...
after thinking about it for a while, i can see CS point that with this new rule "better" clans need to beat the div.5 clan over and over again in order to get up...
the fairest solution i can see is that a clan that beats no.1 or 2 in div.5 comes in 3rd place, with points either equal as no.2 -1 or with points in between no.2 and 3... this way they can't go straight up with 1 win but need to play at least 1 more month and it would mean clans on the promotion spot can't be surprised at the end of the month...
then again, i think we should ask lower division players what they feel... it might be nice for them to have those clans f0 as fast as possible...
after thinking about it for a while, i can see CS point that with this new rule "better" clans need to beat the div.5 clan over and over again in order to get up...
the fairest solution i can see is that a clan that beats no.1 or 2 in div.5 comes in 3rd place, with points either equal as no.2 -1 or with points in between no.2 and 3... this way they can't go straight up with 1 win but need to play at least 1 more month and it would mean clans on the promotion spot can't be surprised at the end of the month...
then again, i think we should ask lower division players what they feel... it might be nice for them to have those clans f0 as fast as possible...
The problem is clans can join anywhere. So while im sititng there thinking 'hmmm, we could finish here this month' there suddenly 2-3 new clans joined how could go steal your places. great stuff.
Ive seen it happen time after time. Your plans get fucked over cause someone wants a quick route out of dov 5. Great stuff
I wouldnt mind so much if i could plan for them (IE. them joining the bottom of the div), but when they can just jump in anywhere its just pure luck where your finish in div 5. We got done more than once by new clans coming in and jump frogging us in the league in div 5. And after a while, its get annoying
Ive seen it happen time after time. Your plans get fucked over cause someone wants a quick route out of dov 5. Great stuff
I wouldnt mind so much if i could plan for them (IE. them joining the bottom of the div), but when they can just jump in anywhere its just pure luck where your finish in div 5. We got done more than once by new clans coming in and jump frogging us in the league in div 5. And after a while, its get annoying
D-Almighty
INITIATE OF THE COUNCIL OF SUPREME LOOKING GUY'S
the holding zone hasnt got any relegations due to low points..
so why dont we make a minimum amount of points that a clan in the holding zone has? lets say like 600 ( dunno yet how high it should be to get the good effect maybe 800 maybe 500 ??)..
a clan that starts gets 600 points or the same points as the bottom clan( so always 600 or more )..
the rulez for match scheduling will stay the same...
when u winn/ lose the same 10% +/- rule will apply but also for clans that starts off from the holding zone. But it will be impossible to have less then 600 points...
I believe this way there are no more 1 win promotions from hz to div. 4...
and a clan who starts off and wins all it's games, will still have a very big chance of promoting
dunno if this theorie will work .. but u might wanna concider it...
so why dont we make a minimum amount of points that a clan in the holding zone has? lets say like 600 ( dunno yet how high it should be to get the good effect maybe 800 maybe 500 ??)..
a clan that starts gets 600 points or the same points as the bottom clan( so always 600 or more )..
the rulez for match scheduling will stay the same...
when u winn/ lose the same 10% +/- rule will apply but also for clans that starts off from the holding zone. But it will be impossible to have less then 600 points...
I believe this way there are no more 1 win promotions from hz to div. 4...
and a clan who starts off and wins all it's games, will still have a very big chance of promoting
dunno if this theorie will work .. but u might wanna concider it...
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i agree its unfair and please note this is not a dig at P*I
h/z clan
there first assault standard war was 15/12/02
its now 05/02/03 and there in division 3 well done
but it was unfair in the lower division clans to see them go so far in so little time
they are mean arse owners and play kewl and deserve to climb
but not as quick
and i know i have a dispute with P*I at this present time
and please belive me that this is not a dig just an example
it could have been any new clan in this situation
and i know they have played pro assault for ages
thats why there so good and i do respect there game play and team
h/z clan
there first assault standard war was 15/12/02
its now 05/02/03 and there in division 3 well done
but it was unfair in the lower division clans to see them go so far in so little time
they are mean arse owners and play kewl and deserve to climb
but not as quick
and i know i have a dispute with P*I at this present time
and please belive me that this is not a dig just an example
it could have been any new clan in this situation
and i know they have played pro assault for ages
thats why there so good and i do respect there game play and team
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