Possible solution to the Mercing problem but would you use it?

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Darkheart

New Member
Jun 9, 2001
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Somewhere
Ok I've been sketching out a bit of pseudo code and I reckon this is possible but I'm not going to put a lot of time into this if no-one would go for it.

I've been thinking about doing a pretty simple program called NMM or something like that (NoMoreMercs) which you run b4 joining a match. This reads a unique signature for you (and your comp) and sends it to an authorising server which logs you in, registers your IP (but doesn't display to all others) and shows who else is connected.

The program runs until the match ends. It then creates a text log for you on your HD of everyone that joins while you are connected and who they are authorised as.

Clans that sign up to NMM can display a logo on their site which shows they are 100% merc free. If there is a dispute then the log from the authorising server can be crossmatched with the server log (maybe this could happen automatically would depend on wether the people running the match servers are happy and I dunno if it would work).

Anyway bottom line we would know that people playing are who they claim to be and in the clan. I'm pretty sure I can do the prog. so:

#1) Uses teeny tiny amount of bandwidth (so small you probably wouldn't notice even on modem).
#2) Uses very small amount of CPU%.

BUT would you run the prog?

Only real problem I see with the system is that it is dependant on getting people to sign up and is positive affirmation rather than negative. i.e. We can see the people who ARN'T mercs but can't necessarily show the people who are. Still if some clan want to show they are 100% against Mercing and don't use them then this would be a good way to do it and hopefully more people would sign up, till only a few clans left who do use mercs and we know who they are.

Only other benefit I can see to running this is maybe it could insure that games really are cheat free but I don't know enough about aimbots to do that right now.

Darkheart
 
few questions

1) what is unique about log in ?
Is it hard drive serial number or something ?
I know u can easy get cpu speed via something in ut and that would prolly remain constant to like 0.1
I also know of a few other ways that can detect computer/ut install. So it would be pretty good.

2) What about ppl who use multiple pcs ?
Pretty rare but i think for example Neo sometimes plays at his mum's /dad's house and Ninja has 2 comps @ home on same line now, Mael sometimes plays at frost's house or was it apoc ?
etc


3) Will it run on macintosh computers ?
Not many ppl use a mac in this community though, but still an issue

4) What about brothers who use same pc ?


Sounds a very good idea, but need to sort out a few details first
 
i could prolly code that in Visual Basic but i guess theres a lot of peeps here that could easily code it in C++ (less cpu intesive language as it doesnt run on a virtual machine) but theres so many different things that could go wrong (some of which that obrero mentioned). Problem is, if it relys on sending the info back to the 'authorising server' pretty simple to just get a packet editor and then block the packets and send the fake ones which will clear u
 
Originally posted by Ace
few questions

1) what is unique about log in ?
Is it hard drive serial number or something ?
I know u can easy get cpu speed via something in ut and that would prolly remain constant to like 0.1
I also know of a few other ways that can detect computer/ut install. So it would be pretty good.

I was thinking take range of bits and pieces and hash them together some of which you've mentioned and others that you haven't but sticking to things that generally remains static (so your latest upgrade won't bugger the prog.).

2) What about ppl who use multiple pcs ?
Pretty rare but i think for example Neo sometimes plays at his mum's /dad's house and Ninja has 2 comps @ home on same line now, Mael sometimes plays at frost's house or was it apoc ?
etc

Dual ID's, in extreme circumstances or the listing would be public so everyone can see who's got 2 accounts and unlikely they would be playing matches at the same time.


3) Will it run on macintosh computers ?
Not many ppl use a mac in this community though, but still an issue

Sorry don't code for mac's but don't know anyone who uses 1 to play UT. If I code it there will be different versions for 9x & NT but that's about it.

4) What about brothers who use same pc ?

They will have to use 1 ID can't stop 2 people using the same machine. By the same token someone could come round to your house and play as you but I can't think of a way to stop that. Just that in the vast majority of cases people don't live close enough for this to be a big problem.

Ninja,

I got some expierence with cryptography and only encrypted data would be held on the client side then decrypted server side. Even if you duplicated the packets from a previous session the timestamps (embedded in the data) wouldn't match.

I'm thinking of doing this prog with absolute minium req'd to get the job done, probably a command line program with no GUI just a read out and just 3 or 4 options to keep the CPU overhead low. Afterall people are gonna want all their horsepower going into playing UT not running the prog.

They Distro I have in mind will create a unique "build" for each user to download so hopefully that should make it harder for people to break down and copy.

Traffic keep it low too probably just send an "I'm still here" from the client and user list from the Server every minute or so.

Of course if someone really wanted to they could probably hack the program up and get it to create dummy data or duplicate someone else's account but if they are that desperate there are probably worse things they could do than merc.

Darkheart
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Dual ID's, in extreme circumstances or the listing would be public so everyone can see who's got 2 accounts and unlikely they would be playing matches at the same time.
Click to expand...

But for ppl like me that plays matches from an internet cafe it would be needed a new account for every new computer playing from right? Could be a little irritating if me and my clanm8s would need +50 accounts each ;)
 
There are always gonna be people who can't (or won't) use this program Obrero and unfortunatly it sounds like your gonna be one of them. Soz only so much I can do if the program is portable there would be no point.

Swyzz, if I was talking about creating some for profit, overhyped piece of bloatware then yes I would be. Maybe you didn't read my line "I'm thinking of doing this prog with absolute minium req'd to get the job done, probably a command line program with no GUI just a read out and just 3 or 4 options to keep the CPU overhead low. " . I won't charge you for technical support when it doesn't work either.

Darkheart
 
Well bot ain't really a problem I think, they all have almost same ip and all leave near to eachother so don't really matter for them a simple ip check would do.
 
I was talking about the Microsoft Activation Key thing. :D
And as usual I was j/k ;)
 
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Time to let loose my invention.


Behold: The permanent freelance UTA merc.Muhahahahahahahahaha
 
Sounds just like punkbuster for CS, except missing any anti cheating code. The problems you are going to encounter are:

1) Generating a static code is impossible, you can generate it based on Hardware but that will change with an upgrade. There isn't anything in a PC that wont change. Best bet is some sort of code issuing scheme, similar to that Half Life uses (except in that case it comes in the box), but you get the idea.

2) A server to run it on, I can only provide a static linux server im afraid, until now anything that we needed a static NT server to run on (such as the booking system) has been hosted by Shaitan, but thats not possible anymore.

If you do go ahead with it you should make it so that UT authorises all players that join a server with it, wouldn't take too much work to add that, otherwise its just a waste of time. I've said it before, asking people to do thing volunterily is a waste of time, cos you just gonna get the honest ppl anyway :)

Thanx
 
Originally posted by Phear
Sounds just like punkbuster for CS, except missing any anti cheating code. The problems you are going to encounter are:

1) Generating a static code is impossible, you can generate it based on Hardware but that will change with an upgrade. There isn't anything in a PC that wont change. Best bet is some sort of code issuing scheme, similar to that Half Life uses (except in that case it comes in the box), but you get the idea.
Click to expand...

The implementation I'm considering using it will withstand most things except for a format and reinstall (which means your gonna have to reinstall all your progs anyway). The ID has 2 parts: A seed downloaded with the prog which contains a unique ID which is then hashed with the ID's gained from the PC Enviroment to create a unique set of strings. This means someone can't just e-mail their ID to someone else if they want someone to be able to play as them. Without giving too much away the data sent from client to server will never stay that static anyway.

Originally posted by Phear


2) A server to run it on, I can only provide a static linux server im afraid, until now anything that we needed a static NT server to run on (such as the booking system) has been hosted by Shaitan, but thats not possible anymore.
Click to expand...

As I may have mentioned before ;) I have an NT server to run it on with a static IP, bandwidth requirements are only very small so should have no impact on the normal running of my server.

Originally posted by Phear


If you do go ahead with it you should make it so that UT authorises all players that join a server with it, wouldn't take too much work to add that, otherwise its just a waste of time. I've said it before, asking people to do thing volunterily is a waste of time, cos you just gonna get the honest ppl anyway :)

Thanx
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean here Phear ATM the plan is the program runs completely seperate of UT (except for maybe crossmatching the logs) I don't do any real uscript so dunno how you would intergrate it.

As for it being volunterary well yes, but what else can we do unless you are planning to force people at gunpoint? ;) Voluntary is the only to do these scheme's and if people get behind it (say if at least 4-5 high profile clans sign up) then it should grow. People also know when playing these clans that they aren't playing "ringers" or some top level guy slumming in Div 4.

Darkheart
 
My point was that punkbuster authorises all players that join a server with the punkbuster server (even tho PB runs as a seperate app) kicking anyone who isn't auth'd. You'll need to do the same thing here if its going to be any use at all.

Hmmm I can imagine there are quite a few people who format, change os etc at frequent intervals, myself included.

Thanx
 
Originally posted by Phear
My point was that punkbuster authorises all players that join a server with the punkbuster server (even tho PB runs as a seperate app) kicking anyone who isn't auth'd. You'll need to do the same thing here if its going to be any use at all.

Click to expand...

It's a good idea but I would need some help for that as it would need to be coded into a mod presumably to check a file that is updated by my prog. I don't know how to do that but if someone wants to help out with that bit then that would be very useful. If I wrote the authorised player list to a file in the UT\System Dir presumably a mod could read that file periodically and kick players who don't match (although maybe some potential problems here with names and people changing names etc.). I dunno ow this would work if someone does want to code it then contact me and we can discuss the best implementation.



Hmmm I can imagine there are quite a few people who format, change os etc at frequent intervals, myself included.

[/B]
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If you format and/or change OS then you usually have to reinstall your apps (At least I can't think of any apps that survive a HDD format) this is another app so yes would need a reinstall. I'm looking to make installation as quick and painless as possible so shouldn't be too much of a chore. Reinstalling your app is a consequence of formatting not of running the app.

BTW sorry for all the quote's just helps me focus my thoughts when giving replies.

Darkheart
 
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