Marriage: For life?

[DraizeTrain]

Is the collapse* of marriage as an institution damaging to our society as a whole? If so, what if anything can be done about it?

*Figures fluctuate but the general trend is down with high divorce rates particularly within the first 3 yrs.

 

[uZi]

I think the rise of divorces etc, is just part of times changing, ie women no longer depend on a husband as much and (i hope) dont feel obligated to stay with people they no longer want to live with... same goes for men with wives

 

[BBStr@nge]

Marriage is a religious act.
If you are religious, you should enter into Marriage and take on the vows that you made.
Marriage on the whole is a sham though aint it?
People doing it because its expected.
The ease with which people divorce is sad nowadays.
I don't believe in marriage. I couldn't keep to the vows.
Does not mean anything to the majority of people in my opinion anyway nowadays.
Bloody hypocrites going to church a few times so they can enjoy the pomp and splendour of a church wedding, never to attend again. Its a great big sham.

 

[Wintermute]

As atheists, our marriage was a civil ceremony only, no religious element whatsoever.

It's a fiscal thing, a nice simple way of making property and taxation matters easier

And a social thing, exchanging names etc

I can honestly say that we got married for three key reasons.

1) Married Persons tax Allowance
2) Mughi got to be an absolute princess for a day
3) We had a blazing party, great ceilidh, and a great time with mates.

As for the oaths? heh. those are between two people, they don't need to be made in front of witnesses

 

[BBStr@nge]

Word

 

[Mughi]

Serial monogamy is the key here I think!!!

Too much importance is placed on marriage, so what if people are living together, "living in sin" pile of bollox. We are married, was a decision we made and we are happy with it, just celebrated our 8th anniversary this week. But if we were commited to staying together we would have been together this amount of time whether married or not.

We had a civil wedding, but I cannot understand people who are atheists, agnostics, or even two sets of pagan friends (!!!!!) who have had church weddings!

But back to the serial monogamy thing, I reckon that would be fine. I will hazard a guess here, but I always tend to get these things wrong... different species of animals have differing numbers of partners, and as a general guideline, the longer the dependance of the young, the more likely the parents are monogamous. Looking to my brothers and sisters, human young are dependant on their parents over the age of 25 (I left home at 19, married at 20, the rest of my siblings all still live at home ) Anyway, based on that, I would say long term monogamy suits people overall. But, if two people are not working together as a couple, why should they stay together? I would definately say that effort to keep a relationship going should be put in, but why flog a dead horse?

 

[BBStr@nge]

Don't think you should flog a dead horse.
But if you make vows that pertain to "till death do us part"
you should stick to em!

I do agree Wints about the logistical reasons though.

 

[Mughi]

Remove the "till death do us part" bit then. Problem solved
I had a quick look, but cant find the legal requirements for a civil wedding but I dont *think* that line is part of it. I may be wrong, as usual

 

[BBStr@nge]

Found it

Standard Civil Ceremony

(Name), I take you to be my lawfully wedding (husband/wife).
Before these witnesses I vow to love you and care for you
as long as we both shall live.
I take you, with all your faults and your strengths,
as I offer myself to you with my faults and my strengths.
I will help you when you need help,
and will turn to you when I need help.
I choose you as the person with whom I will spend my life.

swap "till death do us part" with "for you
as long as we both shall live."

Says the same tho doesnt it?

 

[Mughi]

Thats not the vows we said, but I will assume there will have been enough similarities and rewordings North and South of the Border the basic contents and what it says at the end of the day will be effectively the same, so fairy nuff, its in it.

Remove that bit, and problem solved. Though, it then raises its own questions of why do it in the first place if its not for life.

 

[BBStr@nge]

Yeah - but to be honest, although business-like, Wints reasons were sound.
Mind you he did say it was for you to be a Princess for a day

 

[Mughi]

I dont act feminine very often, and tbh, it was probably the last time I did, and I cant think of many other days before that
I absolutely agree with the reasons, they were mine as well
I cannot think of any better ones, oh, and we lived together for a year before getting married. Makes us evil I am sure

 

[DraizeTrain]

Originally posted by Mughi
Though, it then raises its own questions of why do it in the first place if its not for life.

Is it fair to say that u did it simply because `its a nice thing to do'. I dont mean that as a piss take, far from it. More & more these days i feel that ppl get married purely as a statement of love for 1 another for now as opposed to a commitement for the rest of their lives which of course is something that they cannot tell. If it lasts for their entire lives then thats great. Marriage adds security to ppls lives...and we all like security.

 

[Apocalypse]

Marrige is for life.

In case any1 didn't notice that full stop is bold, kinda sums up my views on the subject

 

[Mughi]

Originally posted by DraizeTrain
Is it fair to say that u did it simply because `its a nice thing to do'. I dont mean that as a piss take, far from it. More & more these days i feel that ppl get married purely as a statement of love for 1 another for now as opposed to a commitement for the rest of their lives which of course is something that they cannot tell. If it lasts for their entire lives then thats great. Marriage adds security to ppls lives...and we all like security.

No, it wasnt for that, it was for the reasons Ian mentioned above, we could get better tax at the time, and it was easier getting paperwork sorted for loans being the main long term reasons. The reasons for making a day of it rather than just a 2 witnesses grabbed off the street were "nice things to do". We did consider the 2 witnesses thing but decided for the sake of an easy life with both sets of parents, the full blown day would have to go ahead.
We arent particularly romantic people, so the niceness of it all wasnt really an issue, it was practicallities. As an example, rather than getting wedding cars laid on, we took taxis to the registry office as it was more practical.
Now, 8 years later, the tax break is gone, and loans are much easier in joint non-married names, if that was the case then, it is entirely possibly we not have got married.
We stay together because of the things we have in common and a host of other reasons. "Being married" is neither here nor there.

 

[DraizeTrain]

Tell me to `mind my own', its np whatsoever, but do u love each other? or is it purely a financial arrangement?

 

[Mughi]

Its no problem DT, though I think its someone elses turn to have their life laid out on the table for everyone else to comment on


Yes, we do love each other .
The marriage was I suppose a financial arrangement, sounds particularly harsh but the point I am trying to get across is that we would be together even if we hadnt been married.

 

[jwer_NL]

personally, i'd say marriage is for life

behind all it is the word you give your partner to do anything to have a pleasent life together and do anything that is needed to keep it satisfactory to both sides...to me that "word" is sacred, a marriage is a way to show the world that you gave that word to each other...

i think that mughi and wint gave that word to each other before the marriage itself (sometimes the word is silent, you just feel it i guess), and found that making it public would be convenient

but you knew you would be together for a wee while prolly long before the wedding itself

 

[Ezby]

I think marriage is a very personal choice... I dont believe you need to spend thousands of pounds and sign a piece of paper to prove you are commited and love someone. But as Winter pointed out, there are a few 'social' benefits and I guess it makes it more 'official' and its an opportunity to celebrate your commitment with your family and friends... Like BB pointed out, I'd feel quite hippocritical taking christian vows in a church, when I'm not religious and they wouldnt hold much value for me. I like the sound of that civil wedding WM and Mughi had Maybe they'd let us borrow the church, just coz its a nice building...

 

[Twonko]

Marriage is a religious act.

Not necessarily. Can happen in a registry office.

I used to think marriage was for life, but now I think it is often (not always) just a prop for people that aren't too sure about the permanence of their relationship. Bit like having childen to 'save' a marriage. If people are confident enough in their relationship, I no longer see marriage as particularly important.

I guess it's different if you are Christian or whatever though.