I want to know why? (map bugs discussion)

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OK, so I guess we can no longer, say, hammer-jump over the Ballistic gates, because as far as we know it wasn't intended to be low enough to allow this. No more hammer-jumping to the Garage button in Guardia either - the map designer can't have known it was low enough. Grz clearly didn't know you could go behind the tents in Desert to find an alt route to the Samsite, so anyone caught doing that is a cheat... Wtf.

I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I find it baffling that you can't tell the difference between a ripper-shot and a spot which makes you invincible. As far as DJ's ban goes I'm with you and him: I don't agree with a ban for that. All I'm saying is that there are bugs and then there are tricks, and something which can't be defended against (ie. Ballistic spot) is a bug, whereas ripper-shots are tricks. They can be deffed against and there's no invincibility involved. But yeah it's an argument full of grey areas and differing opinions. So the only way to solve this whole thing is to compile a list of things people consider bugs and then remove or keep them based on votes. Surely you would vote to see Ball spot removed but not ripper-shots? Well, I'd totally agree with you - I'd vote the same.

First of all u dont get invincible, only invisible, big difference;)

Im not saying there is no difference. All Im trying to say for 3 pages is that both is probably not intended by the author so u cant say the ballistic spot is a cheat coz its not intended by the author. Well, u can, but this would make almost anxthing a cheat. U consider it lame, for me that spot is nothing more than any other sniper position where one can hide (I dont mean turn invisible, just spots like bridge people sniping u in the back from bridge, any spot where u are seen before u can see the enemy). I think the problem here is that some people such as dj or me are used to these spots so we automatically shoot there if we keep getting hit and dont see anyone. I can understand that people who do not know it will consider it lame tho.

I dont care if that spot stays as I dont use it but dont have a problem with anyone using it either so basically Im not affected by it.
For me, anything can stay as it is, its working fine for years.
 
Just to clarify, SVEK offered to forfeit, but I didn't accept, because I still wanted a serious and exciting match, so I tried to get good people in for SVEK, so it was an official match with mercs I guess, and in that sense thanks go to DJ and others for helping SVEK out.

With that said, I don't see why this ban is such a big deal, since it's a very short time ban, DJ still gets to play league matches this month, and I believe it is in fact more a warning to other people, than anything else. Think about it, if a "warning" was given, others would still do it until a list of rules if finalized, while now people a lot more aware.

Now, as far as what makes a bug abuse a real "problem", as most people mentioned, there is a lot of subjective reasoning, and common sense. We can't go around blaming admins for lack of action, they have lives like everyone else, and will not follow/chase everyone to make sure games are fair. I actually really regret the fact now that we have to rely so much on rules, and not on fair play and individual good judgment. I think it is a reflection of the majority of population left in this community, and it's quite sad. I hope you see my point there Stylefish regarding your argument.

As to a real solution, since I guess we have to under the circumstances, I believe a general list of "bad" bug guidelines would prove useful to be less vague on these game play terms, as others suggested, but remember that again, don't simply rely on admins to come up with them. I'd encourage people like DJ, Stylefish, Useless and others that feel strongly on this area to do exactly that and help out, to avoid similar situations in the future. In today's society after all, it's all about removing responsibility from yourself, but that's another discussion... :)

There is sadly still people that go around maps looking for bugs to exploit, but a quick reporting on them from now on I believe would at least identify who those players are, and make everyone else's life easier. So, if you see someone doing it, instead of trying to learn it yourself so you can be '1337', why not face them with it, and report it if it looks serious?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but it's threads like these that touch on general game play points that can sometimes make a small difference in how people look at this game, even after all these years. Thanks to everyone that contributed with reasonable information to it, thanks admins for taking your time to follow up on fixes, thanks Carnage for leading the effort to come up with a final solution.
 
Yeah, guess Squirrel's got a point. DJ and all his clanm8s are clearly people who care about the league, I'm sure DJ wouldn't mind being shown as an example to stop real cheaters from abusing the rules :)
 
I have to agree here, yet I am 100% sure admins once have stated that this specific bug on ballistic could get you banned. I only play in this league for 3.5 years and I was aware of this.
In my eyes this bug is the same as using the boxes on bridge to prevent people from walking to the door pressure controller, that bug/exploit will also get you banned.

I seriously didn't know that, that the boxes @ door pressure weren't allowed...and I think I've still actually done that in some pro as war not too long ago....

That's another example of how un-clear it can be....
 
I have to agree here, yet I am 100% sure admins once have stated that this specific bug on ballistic could get you banned. I only play in this league for 3.5 years and I was aware of this.
In my eyes this bug is the same as using the boxes on bridge to prevent people from walking to the door pressure controller, that bug/exploit will also get you banned.

That's why I think this ban is 100% right, eventhough there still are some grey areas about what is right and what is wrong, the obvious cases have been pointed out and discussed in the past.

I also think that when you play for another clan (mercing) one should play as fair and nice as possible as the opposite team clearly uses allowing mercs to get a nice game going, therefor using this bug as a merc in a league match (it was not pre-forfeitted as you both seem to claim) is even worse.

I can remember a post where raichu was warned for using the bug - would take a long time to find it tho

Tbh.. Since (as squirrel stated) this was an official league match - the bug should not have been used.. the 2 week ban is a very short one and is there as a warning to other players - use this and you will get banned for a lot longer.

Tbh DJ, you've pissed off a lot of people recently and it's finally come back to bite you in the ass. I find it a tad harsh.. but couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow etc :P
 
Im not saying there is no difference. All Im trying to say for 3 pages is that both is probably not intended by the author so u cant say the ballistic spot is a cheat coz its not intended by the author. Well, u can, but this would make almost anxthing a cheat. U consider it lame, for me that spot is nothing more than any other sniper position where one can hide

If the Ball wall hide just turns you invisible and not invincible then it's no different from the Bridge trees, which I don't use but don't mind other people using. But you can be shot in the Bridge trees, though sometimes you can't be shot in the Ball spot. If DJ didn't know this fair enough - I only found out through these forums years ago. I'm not saying DJ was cheating, but now that everyone who read this thread knows that it's more than just like hiding in the Bridge trees, no-one can complain about getting at least warned for it.

Tbh I don't give a shit about existing bugs just as long as they don't do what this one appears to be doing - giving one team an unfair advantage over another. Such a thing is obviously a bug. Who doesn't look in the Bridge trees for snipers these days? If you're running through Ballistic to the Warhead and you suddenly get sniped it's just common sense to send some shots towards that wall, or look behind you above the final attack spawn room - the sniper's hiding somewhere so go and look. But if I shoot at that wall and the sniper not only doesn't die but doesn't even get hit, that's surely something that shouldn't be allowed. And if the person I shoot at knows he's not getting damaged, he knows he's in a bug spot. If he stays there he's cheating.

Fuck it, I've got a headache. I type too much around here.
 
Adding to that Jules about the box moving which I also didn't know about... I only thought it was illegal to move the box to block 2nd assault. In that case if its illegal to move it to door pressure entrance then the same applies to moving the box at Golgotha2 to stop people from getting back inside the room with Rockets.

Anni I dont think a list should be made saying what is allowed and what isnt. Just a list compiled of what bugs would determine a suspension. It would be pointless to suggest a certain bug is allowwed which would encourage more people to use it.

Tbh I can only think of 2 worthy of a ban. They are the Ballistic Wall Bug (Maybe even the 2 other wall bugs below this) and Sniping from sticking in a wall when you appear to lagslide making you unhittable (main example of this it is possible to do this in a number of spots on Bridge)
 
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Tbh DJ, you've pissed off a lot of people recently and it's finally come back to bite you in the ass. I find it a tad harsh.. but couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow etc :P

:lol: you watch ur arse then aswell, i think that you pissed off more people then DJ
 
I kept myself out of this thread so far, but I'm totally with the admin team here. Doesn't matter if it was in a friendly or match game. Exploits like this one can't be tollerated. If u think it matters that this was a friendly, then you should ask yourself if it's legal to pull out red cards in a friendly match of football. Of course it is! Don't be foolish. Lame behaviour is lame behaviour and it should be dealt with asap. That DJ is the victim of it is perhaps his own fault. I can remember some discussions about his person in the past. The sum of all this leads to this. Deal with it. Besides it's only 2 weeks. Now u can get a life for 2 weeks DJ.. How's that? enjoy it! :)
 
. Now u can get a life for 2 weeks DJ.. How's that? enjoy it

well i do have a life. i just think this is so bollox. its a part of the game and always has been. funny thing that that pos i was in is not even that good its just annoying for the opponents and i would NEVER use it in a clanwar for my own team...there are tons of pos thats way better than this one and if someone pass u, ur screwed so. And its so easy kill the guy in that spot but it seems like ppl dont seems to realise that......only fun to use it vs players whos not that "experienced". And why this ban on me when every1 using it? well gonna be lots of demos sent to admins from now on. oh and yes 2 weeks ban make me miss 1-2 wars this month....gg
 
like you always say to wish and everything dj

once a cheater, always a cheater!

STOP USING BUGS U BUG ABUSER
 
Imo, you used a bug dj what is not allowed so accept it, or piss off.. And you have now some time free to make friends in reallife and not @ internet. Fix the bugs and make a clean line, forget about the past and who ever use a bug now ban him for 6 months. *matches/pubs doesnt mather*
 
whats your idioticness got to do with this topic ? lol

Hmmm the thing I wrote might be over ur knowledge but I been told once "try to see the trees behind the forest"...
when u figure that riddle out I guess u see the point in my writing :) or better the "meaning" behind my writing :) lol
 
Imo, you used a bug dj what is not allowed so accept it, or piss off..

God damned this is really something... to be honest the maps are as they are if they are full of bugs and approved to be used in clan wars and in overall so what is the f problem tbh ? Why and who approvals maps which are meant to complain about later ? Use the maps as they are or fix them... like buying a car and telling the seller well seems u added some extra horsepowers but since I never ordered it I will not use them and later on he/she use the them.. and suddenly the neighbour see him using it and call the seller, god damned he used them.. well now he have to pay it... hahahha :)

I promise, my last comment to this :P
 
God damned this is really something... to be honest the maps are as they are if they are full of bugs and approved to be used in clan wars and in overall so what is the f problem tbh ? Why and who approvals maps which are meant to complain about later ? Use the maps as they are or fix them... like buying a car and telling the seller well seems u added some extra horsepowers but since I never ordered it I will not use them and later on he/she use the them.. and suddenly the neighbour see him using it and call the seller, god damned he used them.. well now he have to pay it... hahahha

owned! not much more to add.....
 
If a big problem is found in a map, why not fix it? Doesn't matter how old the map is or how long it's been in the league.
 
Adding to that Jules about the box moving which I also didn't know about... I only thought it was illegal to move the box to block 2nd assault........................... In that case if its illegal to move it to door pressure entrance then the same applies to moving the box at Golgotha2 to stop people from getting back inside the room with Rockets.

Plolz this is quite clearly a feature of the map, else the author would have just made a small ramp to the window like he did with the windows where the shock and vials are. This does it stop attackers from attacking or defenders defending. Remember Boxes on bridge actually GET bugged as in you cant push them from 1 side anymore and then prevents you from attacking. Thats the bug in that case. There is no bug here. A perfect example of paranoia over the bugs caused by a silly thread. I agree people abusing bugs should get punished. Moving a box is not a bug, moving a box into a position where its prevents attacking or defending is.
 
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