AS-Energy

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AtmaDragon

New Member
Jul 10, 2003
295
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Kennewick, WA
Well, I finally have my first AS map fully designed on paper. Now I just need to learn enough of UED to actually map it. :rofl:

SO I was hoping to get some bugs out of the design before I actually start mapping it. Enclosed is a very basic overhead design of the map. And I was wondering a few things:

1. Is it a good idea to have the defense split like that, or would that make offense to easy? The main gates are going to be have some heavy weaponry so I was thinking it'd be a good idea. Also, I'm planning on having plenty of launch opportunities throughout the map to bypass those sorts of things if the offense is good enough.

2. Will the overhead sniper nest (a la AS-ColdSteel2; the place right after the turret gun, only there will be snipers there to snipe the offense ;)) make the defense far too easy? I was really hoping to have something like this in the map, but if it won't work out I'll take it out. Keep in mind this area can be bypassed by launching, there will be a secret entrance ot the base somehwere around here ;) and the map will be set at night.

Also, I want my maps to have TONS of secrets in them, so I was hoping someone could make some suggestions of how you put secrets in a mostly terrain map.

Jwer NL, I'm looking forward to your blasts of criticism of how my map sucks already. :lol:
 

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AtmaDragon said:
Well, I finally have my first AS map fully designed on paper. Now I just need to learn enough of UED to actually map it. :rofl:

SO I was hoping to get some bugs out of the design before I actually start mapping it. Enclosed is a very basic overhead design of the map. And I was wondering a few things:

1. Is it a good idea to have the defense split like that, or would that make offense to easy? The main gates are going to be have some heavy weaponry so I was thinking it'd be a good idea. Also, I'm planning on having plenty of launch opportunities throughout the map to bypass those sorts of things if the offense is good enough.

2. Will the overhead sniper nest (a la AS-ColdSteel2; the place right after the turret gun, only there will be snipers there to snipe the offense ;)) make the defense far too easy? I was really hoping to have something like this in the map, but if it won't work out I'll take it out. Keep in mind this area can be bypassed by launching, there will be a secret entrance ot the base somehwere around here ;) and the map will be set at night.

Also, I want my maps to have TONS of secrets in them, so I was hoping someone could make some suggestions of how you put secrets in a mostly terrain map.

Jwer NL, I'm looking forward to your blasts of criticism of how my map sucks already. :lol:


good to start a new map, always good to see people working on maps..

first of all, good idea to split the attackers way, but note that you need to give them new spawnpoints after BOTH gates are breached (like in desolate). otherwise attack would only breach 1 way (shortest) and the other way is kinda useless, , defence will spam in that "chicane" you drawed there.

now defence can actually try to defend both gates, to prevent a closer spawn. but attack can try to breach via the backside (walking through the way already breached, then walk to the way that has to be breached at the other side,

i don't know how steep you want to make the slopes, but make sure you make them steep enough that you can't walk on them, otherwise attack can kinda bypass defence without being seen... = no fun imo

after attack gets new spawn. near the gate's , make sure that 50% of the spawnpoints is at gate A and 50% at gate B, with diffrent kind of weapons, this way you can make potencial launches harder (because you don't know where to spawn)

i would suggest to add a little outside part after that base, so you can launch at the last part..:D

nothing more to say right now, to basic to give constuctive critism

cheers
 
Yeah, it's basic now, but in my mind's eye it's all mapped out and looking BEAUTIFUL. :D

Yes, it the hills will be steep and the center will be filled with mass, so the attackers can't even launch through it.

Keep in mind this is a night map, so that might counteract some of the advantage the defense snipers have.

My concerns about the map:

With the overhead sniper nest, will it be too easy for the defense do you think? The range of that nest would be fairly large.

Questions about mapping itself:

1. Is it okay to add a brush into a subtracted brush when the builder brush collides with the space/mass of UED?
2. Is it okay to subtract a brush from an added brush when the builder tool collides with already subtracted space?
3. Do you create borders to some parts of textures by just adding a sheet?

Can someone also give me an example of how make a complicated brush like the overhanging section in AS-ColdSteel2 so I can get a feeing of how to make that sort of thing? I want to make sure I know how to map every part of my map before I actually start the mapping itself.

I'll add in more sketches and explanations of the map itself later.
 
1.&2.: It does not matter.
3: you will either need to ADD a brush with its inner most surface being IN the wall so THIS surface will be visible and no other. Another way (which im still not completely sure whethere it works, would be subtracting something with the outmost surface being IN the wall, but considering the brush order it should actually do the same trick.

AtmaDragon said:
Can someone also give me an example of how make a complicated brush like the overhanging section in AS-ColdSteel2 so I can get a feeing of how to make that sort of thing?
I dont have the map here but if you are referring to a compound brush (brush with many vertices/polys, ie. made up of many other brushes) Its generally a bad idea to use these in ut. There are situation where such (most likely added as semisolids then) coulds be prefered but not as part of esential geometry like walls or buildings because in my experience they are more likely to throw glitches and strange collusions, or even HOMs and BSP holes around the nearer area. a better way is to use very basic (cube tule) brushes and add and subtract them from eachother in various sizes. If you work with the grid (set to 8 or 16) youll want to use a calculator to determine many brush meassurements. If you dont youll be intersecting and desintersecting brushes lots to get the sizes right.
 
aye nice to see more ppl attempt making maps, and im sure the more experienced ppl will help u if needed!
 
Despise said:
If u put sniper in and a snipernest im all happy :P
Yeh, and some cover for the attackers like rocks or maybe poles in ground like on Normandy
 
well there are many ways to make the snipers not to powerfull....

1. don't add to many ammo (1 pack)
2, make the sniperoverheadthingy not to high, so def can't jump....(i mean the roof of the overheadthing)
3. make the part where defence actually see the attackers not to wide, now defence can't move to much, so they are an easier target for attack...

add the sniperrifle in the defender spawn room, and make the teleporter 1 way only, when defence is out of ammo, they can;t use the throw weapon trick, they have to wait till the sniperpack respawns, or they have to suicide

you can also make def spawnpoints by default so that 1 random person spawns in the above snipernest... :)
 
or

4. Give the attackers a sniper too and let the fun begin!! :sniper:

If u hinder the defence sniper too much it simply wont be used cos its fooking pointless. But give the attackers sniper then they still got a chance to defend themselves.
 
whatever you do dont make it like desolate where the def has to take teleports at nearly every objective, that sucks big time imo.

and secondly (imo) just make the map, dont worry about launching and stuff just yet. imo one of the best maps ever is golgothaAL and i think GRZ thought about launching in that map in 1 obvious place, but look how many other launches have been developed since.
 
I made many more overhead maps to make sure it's clear what will be on the map. I put these in the first post.

Keep in mind it's a night map.

Here is a LENGTHY description. :D

AS-Energy
Premise
Most of the Black Legion, along with the Necris Phayders that comprise a large portion of it, were banished to the frozen moon of Coret in early 2216. However, they managed to hijack a small ITV class vessel and activate the interstellar zonegate in place there. The Black Legion then landed on the planet Zeus 6, which has many rich Tarydium deposits in its crust, and prepared to attack a weapons supply facility that resides there.

This facility is the private and only weapons supply facility for the flagship of the EDF (Earth Defense Force). It supplies Tarydium to power the ships ion cannons and propulsion systems and shock core (need another name for this I think) to power the ship’s shields and the small arms of the crew. The intent of the Black Legion for this episode is quite clear: they wanted to damage any part of the EDF that it could, because that would in turn damage the NEG (New Earth Government), but the attack on this facility turned out to be more effective than anticipated.

The flagship of the EDF just days after this attack encountered the flagship of the Skaarj fleet. Had the EDF’s flagship been fully powered it would have easily destroyed the Skaarj vessel and the Skaarj fleet would have scattered, but it was low on supply as a result of this attack. The flagship was destroyed and the Skaarj fleet grew confident because of this and the entire fleet attacked and surrounded Earth. The attack upon this facility is what caused the Seven-Day Siege of the Human-Skaarj Wars.

Facility Description
This facility is located in a dried up river-valley, hence the the defensive installations of the facility must cover all estuaries of that river-valley; the EDF would have much preferred a more defensible location, but this area was most rich in Tarydium.

The map starts with the attackers in a cave. The attackers must make their way through the defensive installations and into the facility itself. Just outside the facility is a supply truck filled only with GES Bio Rifles and ASMD Shock Rifles. Before this attack, the facility was just getting ready to send a supply vessel to the EDF’s flagship.

Inside the facility is the Defensive Spawn, the Control Center, and the Radiation Door, past which lies the Shock Core and Tarydium Crystal. Because of the amount of radiation that shock ions and tarydium can emit under certain conditions a special lead-coated door had to be put in place to protect the crew of the facility in case an accident occured. Also, to open the door, the Radiation Door Switch must be pressed and then the Confirm Radiation Door Switch of the Main Control Console in the Control Center must be pressed. The Main Gate can also be opened using the Main Gate Switch on the Control Console.

Inside the Energy Weapons Supply Area is the Shock Core and Tarydium Crystal themselves. Tarydium can be extremely volatile under certain conditions and behind protective glass. For diagnostic purposed, the glass can be lowered by pressing a simply switch. Because the Shock Core is more or less stable, it is not housed behind glass. Also, the Power Generator of the entire facility is housed behind Security Doors.

FortStandards
1. Gate A has been opened/destroyed!
The Gate A Trigger will be at the front gate. If the Trigger is destroyed (600 Health) it will display a “Gate A has been destroyed!” message and kill the FortStandard. However, the gate can also be opened by launching to the other side of the gate and pressing the switch. In this case, a “Gate A has been opened!” message will be displayed. Opening the gate will also kill the FortStandard.

If the Trigger is destroyed then the gate switch be deactivated, and vice versa.

2. Gate B has been opened/destroyed!
The Gate B Trigger will be at the front gate. If the Trigger is destroyed (600 Health) it will display a “Gate B has been destroyed!” message and kill the FortStandard. However, the gate can also be opened by launching to the other side of the gate and pressing the switch. In this case, a “Gate B has been opened!” message will be displayed. Opening the gate will also kill the FortStandard.

If the Trigger is destroyed then the gate switch be deactivated, and vice versa.

Once both FortStandards have been killed, new spawns will activate at each gate for the attackers.

3. Charge has been placed!
The front gate to the facility is closed. A charge will be placed and be delayed 10 seconds before blowing up and destroying the gate.

Consistent with the plot of the map, there will be a supply truck just outside the gate with only GES BioRifles and ASMD Shock Rifles. The attackers will have to make due with these.

4. The Radiation Door Switch has been flipped!
There is a switch right next to the Radiation Door that must be flipped to open the door. This FortStandard, however, will not open the gate. This FortStandard must be pressed first.

5. The Radiation Door Confirm Control Switch has been pressed!
To actually open the Radiation Door, the Main Control Console must be manipulated to confirm the Radiation Door opening.

6. Tarydium Crystal Safety Glass has been lowered!
To the attackers right is a room containing a Tarydium Crystal. Press the Control Console to lower the glass.

7. The Tarydium Crystal has been destroyed!
The Tarydium Crystal must now be destroyed. (500 Health) The instant after the crystal is destroyed, security doors of the room close because the crystal will likely explode.

8. The Shock Core has been deactivated!
In the middle of a room opposite the Tarydium Crystal Room is a room with a huge, active Shock Core. Press the console to deactivate the Core.

Objectives 7 and 8 can be done in any order.

9. The Generator has been destroyed!
The number of electons used to suspend the Tarydium Crystal is directly proportoinal to the mass of the Tarydium Crystal. Thus, when the Crystal is destroyed, there is a massive number of free electrons wandering the power grid of the facility. The computer will try to compensate for this by adding to the charge of the Shock Core. However, when the Core is deactivated, there is no where for the free electrons to go. To avoid a short circuit, the computer is forced to shut itself and the rest of the power grid down, opening the security doors to the generator as a last act before powering down, thinking that the crew of the facility will now repair whatever is wrong with the power generator. This is the attackers’ opportunity to destroy the power generator and complete the mission.

See the Actor Map to visualize better how the Triggers and FortStandards will work together.
 
Few more questions about UED:

1. Is it even possible to do that funky two different things trigger one FortStandard idea?
2. How would I make sure all the windows on the sniper nest are evenly spaced and the same size? Just use the same builder tool over and over and make the grid size large? (I know this seems obvious but I'm so afraid of making a really ugly map. :()

More later. =o
 
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AtmaDragon said:
Few more questions about UED:

1. Is it even possible to do that funky two different things trigger one FortStandard idea?
2. How would I make sure all the windows on the sniper nest are evenly spaced and the same size? Just use the same builder tool over and over and make the grid size large? (I know this seems obvious but I'm so afraid of making a really ugly map. :()

More later. =o

1. hmm, i don't think you should make it a fortstandard.. you can make it an objective without gaining points for it, (like the first bomb on desertstorm), then you can connect 2 triggers to that event, both attached with a special event (with gate has been destroyed or gate has been opened message)

dunno for sure though
 
1.

virtually an AS map only needs one fortstandard (the FinalFort) all other can be usual triggers. there two can be used as pyke says.

If you want a for standard anyway u can try making it very large and place it carefully somewhere (in the overhead map) so that its radius circle intersects with the two planned breach points.

2.

use the fucking grid (grid snap checked at the bottom of the interface) then just count grid boxes, theres a slightly thicker line every 8 boxes which will help you counting because woull also often want 128 or 256 as spacing and brush sizes, especially in the beginning when yer not yet doing many detail.



as for something else posted by Joko (IIRC):

If youre going to use teleports check for maps where they are WELL done, ie *easy to find* (bridge, lava) and try to think of those which are terribly made (desolate!!, riverbed 3) and try to think of what makes em bad/good.
make spawns face towards the teleports and preferably only from one direction (unlike deso).
you CAN make the teleport exits random, but be careful with their direction as usersd can be confused (AGAIN bad example is desolate, especiall the OUTSIDE tele exits)
 
sobo said:
as for something else posted by Joko (IIRC):

If youre going to use teleports check for maps where they are WELL done, ie *easy to find* (bridge, lava) and try to think of those which are terribly made (desolate!!, riverbed 3) and try to think of what makes em bad/good.
make spawns face towards the teleports and preferably only from one direction (unlike deso).
you CAN make the teleport exits random, but be careful with their direction as usersd can be confused (AGAIN bad example is desolate, especiall the OUTSIDE tele exits)

ok i can remember typing something like that but where the fuck was it? im going nuts! HELP! :rofl:
 
Maybe its just my style of mapping but shouldn't you be putting more effort into the mapping rather than the design. Design should eb and flow, it should't be ridgid. If you make your design too specific you will find when you try to build it you will have a lot of problems keeping to the original design.
 
Joko said:
ok i can remember typing something like that but where the fuck was it? im going nuts! HELP! :rofl:
i dont know wuite frankly, i thought it was in this thread but now its gone ?! maybe another thread then.
 
X-Bomb said:
whatever you do dont make it like desolate where the def has to take teleports at nearly every objective, that sucks big time imo.
ah this was it, not by Joko, but by X-Bomb.