9/11!

[Arnet- StoneAge]

Just wondered if anyone knows what happened the 11:th september?

1979..?

Anyone?

Well, US did through CIA incinnerate about 30000 ppl in a military coup where they replaced the democratically elected president with their chosen dictator.

The other 9/11 is nuffin compared to that atrocity, but still the shit is on the news from now and then.

Whats the reason, US is not much closer to europe then south america. Considering geographical distance, also in Sweden we have more then 100 times more latinos then yankees emigrated here. What is then the reason apart from how media generally works?

Racism and cultural fascism is the 2 ONLY big reasons why we consider the date 9/11 has to do with US and not the region below!

Discussing 9/11 is saying we care oh so much more about lives and democracy when it comes to caucasian middle class from Big Mac country then others.. I hate all 9/11 discussions, no matter ppl:s stance case its all RASISTIC imo!

No matter if your pro or against US actions there is more to discuss then the bombing of a scyscrape although it was very fitting for broadcast.

Its just my opinion,i thkn ppl should lay 9/11 aside and open their eyes instead. USA murder more ppl then that each and every year and has done so for a long time.

Well oh..

Arnet

 

[Do0fUs]

i agree m8

the events of september 11th 2001 were absolutley nothing compared to the worldwide resulta of fascism such as those currently going on in zimbabwe atm.

but were people upset on september the 11th about the loss of life? because if they were, then they certainly do need to open there eyes and look about at other events in the world, such as the first day of the somme, 1915 in which 20,000 soldiers lost their lives.

the question i am asking about september the 11th is not, why, or the result, but "How the fuck did a load of terrorists manage to hijack 4 planes in the "Land of Freedom""

I think people were mourning of september 11th mainly because of the shock of it happening to such a develpoed country.


And in the space shuttle incident recently, everybody crying because 7 ppl lost their lives or something like that?


7 ppl? thats absolutley fuck nothing. The space shuttle incident resulted in us crying over wasted money, not lives.

 

[Mughi]

And in the space shuttle incident recently, everybody crying because 7 ppl lost their lives or something like that?


7 ppl? thats absolutley fuck nothing. The space shuttle incident resulted in us crying over wasted money, not lives.

Have you ever lost someone close to you? just one. You lose one person then tell me that losing 7 in one incident isnt a bad thing. Then tell me that over 3000 in one incident is nothing?

There was a school shooting a few years ago in Scotland, 16 children were murdered there, I cried when I heard the news reports. Should I have not bothered as it wasnt enough people to get concerned about?

I can understand comparing the relative loss of life, but you can not say that the shuttle incident and the 9/11 events were nothing and should be ignored. Yes, a thousand atrocities are commited each day, how can you say that these are not important yet others are.

The purpose of the media and news reports is to report news. Might be a bit obvious, but that means things that are happening now, mostly. Which is why things like soldiers deaths in Iraq get more coverage than a military coup in 1979. 9/11/01 is still mentioned as it has a huge impact on american policies 2 years later. The events in Zimbabwe are reported, the people locked up in Guantanamo Bay are reported, hell, the gross incompetence and corruption in the Scottish parliament is being reported here

 

[Do0fUs]

Have you ever lost someone close to you? just one. You lose one person then tell me that losing 7 in one incident isnt a bad thing. Then tell me that over 3000 in one incident is nothing?

There was a school shooting a few years ago in Scotland, 16 children were murdered there, I cried when I heard the news reports. Should I have not bothered as it wasnt enough people to get concerned about?

I never said that 7 ppl is so little dying that we should completely ignore the news, nor am i saying that the deaths of 16 innocent school children is. i think that here you have missed my point m8. What i would like to know is simply why a shuttle explosion gets breaking news immediately, where as the many doomed people with cancer or malnutrition or who die in car crashes go without any publicity.

 

[Mughi]

Because its not news. Harsh though it may be (though when you are grieving the last thing you want is to be part of the media circus).

They do make time for it, but not that often - 1st Dec for example is World AIDS Day, so the media covers AIDS in more detail than normal. Or cancer - there is Lung Cancer Awareness Day (17th Nov), Breast Cancer Awareness Day (21st Oct) Prostate Cancer Awareness Day and so on. Every time there is a new campaign for anything - road saftey etc the deaths and dangers are highlighted. Malnutrition is reported fairly regularly as well.

These things make national news when a celebrity has cancer or AIDS, when someone famous is in a car crash. Fatal car crashes certainly make regional and local news as and when they happen.

Things like 9-11 and the shuttle are reported in more depth at the time, they are NOT reported now. I have not heard about the shuttle explosion APART from the enquiry report. The events of 9-11 are rarely reported directly now, but the result of them is because they are current.

The complaint I have with the media is less with this and more with ... why the hell should I care that Prince William is herding sheep, or that Posh Spice is wearing new earrings, or that some singer i never heard of won some TV show I never watched. Remove the time spent on these innanities and there may be some more time for "real" news.

 

[Arnet- StoneAge]

The purpose of the media and news reports is to report news. Might be a bit obvious, but that means things that are happening now, mostly. Which is why things like soldiers deaths in Iraq get more coverage than a military coup in 1979. 9/11/01 is still mentioned as it has a huge impact on american policies 2 years later. The events in Zimbabwe are reported, the people locked up in Guantanamo Bay are reported, hell, the gross incompetence and corruption in the Scottish parliament is being reported here

Oh so if media does what it is supposed to and report what happens at the moment then it should report about american soldiers dying in iraq?

WHY? Rascism is only reason since when a few military ppl voluntarily dies i dont see any big stuff happening. YES they die voluntarily because they agreed to fight and die in the name of FASCISM. In just the same manner Osama bin ladens men chose to fight in the name of FREDOOM.

Without judging whos most immoral, american soldiers terrorists or Bin laden soldier terrorists u could say none of them deserves the greatest of pitys which should belong to the civilian ppl dying of boths actions.

An example is afghanistan where a few us soldiers were killed and a few thousand afghanistans were bombed to death. Well is that the big issue? Imo NO. Big issue is that the 7 million ppl without food ( which of whome 1.5 million lived in refugee camps 100% dependant on food from outside ) didnt get the food deliveries they had until US decided to bomb the country.. After bombings were initiated all humitinary help was stopped to not risk the lives of the ppl transporting the food.

Same in iraq, who with their head on the right side of their arse would care a shit about a few americans soldiers, when USA economical sanctions has killed 500 000 small children who died lacking medicine in the last few years?

Any MENTION of deaths of american militarys without in the same sentence saying "although thats nothing compared to the 2 million civil iraq ppl killed by USA sanctions" is a MENTION with a high grade of RASCISM, and CULTURAL FASCISM EMBEDDED to it! THAT is EXACLTY the same as if an middle eastern newspaper would have written, a great pitty, very recently 10 poor muslims died when crashing with there plains into some kind of buidlings without mentioning the ppl inside thge buildings.

Its the same thing with talking about the death of Saddam troops without mentioning the hundred of thousands of ppls deatchs he has caused through the years..

YES, almost all news reports is RASCISTIC, and its an obvious fact for most, at least ive thought so?

Arnet

 

[Mughi]

Nah, the local newspapers and radios stations here covers 5 - 10 towns and villages. Here you read about bags being snatched, radios being stolen out of cars, dog shitting in neighbours garden. This is only relevant to the people living in those 5 - 10 villages. They only touch on bigger stories as the national newspapers cover that. Its not racism not to report them, its just not what they do.

The regional newspapers and radio stations cover a bigger area, so they cover fatal car crashes, local government inquiries, deaths in service of those from the region. As things like the mistreatment of refugees taken to Dungavel Detention Centre and racist attacks in that area will be reported I dont think regional media is racist its just that they are covering their area.

National newspapers and radio stations have bigger stories again to run. They are guilty of putting commercial interest before what people should know, but I just cannot see them as being racist for not reporting things happening to people in other countries as in depth as those happening to people in their own. Ask a bloke on the street what they think is more relevant to them - someone killed in service from their country, or someone killed in service from another country. Almost everyone is more interested in their own country FIRST. It could be someone they know, it could be someone they recognise from school, it could be more relevant to them. They will still be vaguely interested in the death of someone from another country, but its not racism, its just further away and therefore less relevant to them.

You will find it works no matter where you are. An Isreali newspaper will be reporting first deaths there, everything else after. An Egyptian newspaper will cover deaths of Egyptians first. Its not racism, its focusing on the local first and working out from there.

As for soldiers dying for facisim.... well, I agree they walked into it with their eyes open, when they signed up they knew there was the chance they would be killed. I disagree that they do it for facist reasons though. And Bin Ladens men fight for freedom the quote "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" springs to mind.

The Red Cross operated in Iraq during the war, until a suicide bomber killed 12 people in the headquarters last month. I certainly dont blame them for pulling out then, the people they are trying to help are trying to kill them.

 

[apex]

they freed Europe m8 ...without them you would really have to deal with racism, They are the reason why we still live in our own countries with our own language and that there are still a few jews around.

To be brief nothing is black and white. To say its all racism is bullshit. The biggest newsbroadcast is broadcasting what they think is important and if that is what happened in the Rome of this century, New York, then they ofcouse cover that. Dont forget it had a great impact on the minds of the Americans because of their feeling of safety has been altered in a tremedous way.
And what has been said before, they also cover important issues around the globe.

Thing is you dont want to get to involved in these politics you might not like what you find. Everything is a scam or a shakedown. The killing of the Kennedys is a good example of that. The black ops operations in China and the involvement of the US in Vietnam is an other example.
Its all about money and power. And that isnt only from the Americans but from everyone. Every country want's to have more means or money and power if you will.
Everyone is fighting for a better situation for themselves, its human nature and survival at its finest.

 

[Do0fUs]

and if two first world countires go to war nowadays then its definately gonna turn nuclear imo.

if America starts losing a war again like in vietnam then they'll whoop the nukes out too.

 

[Arnet- StoneAge]

Nah, the local newspapers and radios stations here covers 5 - 10 towns and villages. Here you read about bags being snatched, radios being stolen out of cars, dog shitting in neighbours garden. This is only relevant to the people living in those 5 - 10 villages. They only touch on bigger stories as the national newspapers cover that. Its not racism not to report them, its just not what they do.

You note is obvious for anyone who read a local newspaper and heard about how many cats were saved or how many youths that turned up in drunken cells.

Then you go vover to regional media- the same.

Problem occur when u go over to national media and u somehow miss the point. When national media covers what happens in afghanistan, ITS ALL LONG LONG AWAY.

When national media covers what happened to the appollo crew, NOT 1 SINGLE PERSON who reads the papers still reporting on it knows ANYONE involved. And oh, if u say it s about how much the rockets costed then ure eyes are opening..

I doubt the dead soldiers in iraq, say a hundred, or maybe a thousand, it doesnt matter have more friends in SWEDEN then thoes civilan iraq ppl has!

IN FACT, out of every death, A LOT more ppl in sweden is related in some way to and Iraq citizen then an american citizen! We have a lot of Iraq immigrants but hardly many from the US. So with YOUR LOGIC of how many who might have gone in the same school, or been neighbours to or whatever etc AMERICAN DEATHS should NOT be reported. All effort should be adjusted towards telling the story about the Iraqi deaths!

So why dont Swedish or other Eurpoean media do that?

For a number of reasons. Political reasons, economical reasons, traditional reasons. But mainly there is another reason.

U might respond, well if u ask a man or woman onthe street in europe what deaths the would be interested mostly in. Those from a country xxxxx km away or that one yyyyy km away they would say, it doesnt really matter- all lives and deaths are equaly important.

Then rephrase the question again and say if they would be most interested in american deaths or Iraqi deaths and u would guess the outcome. I would be incline to say their interets in american deaths would prevail. NOw why? As i established the personal relations, such as being relative to or have gone in the same school is MUCH, MUCH higher for Iraqi ppl then americans in SWEDEN.

So what do we swedes have in common that the Iraqis dont have? The color of our skin, the christian religion, the economies, the same mainstream culture. So in fact the biggest reason for this news reporting is we have the same "race" and same "superior culture", which indicates the reaons i mentioned isnt as far fetched as u might believe. Cultural Fascism and Rascism is the biggest reasons i said and thatss something i have reaons to belive. But please make my day by letting me put those arguments aside!

Id sure be happy to do that, but i see no facts pointing in other directions, nor i see any valid argumentations taking us elsewhere? For me its not even a question, the question lies in "what can we do about it?"

Arnet

 

[Cutter]

WHY? Rascism is only reason since when a few military ppl voluntarily dies i dont see any big stuff happening. YES they die voluntarily because they agreed to fight and die in the name of FASCISM. In just the same manner Osama bin ladens men chose to fight in the name of FREDOOM.

Without judging whos most immoral, american soldiers terrorists or Bin laden soldier terrorists u could say none of them deserves the greatest of pitys which should belong to the civilian ppl dying of boths actions.

Same in iraq, who with their head on the right side of their arse would care a shit about a few americans soldiers, when USA economical sanctions has killed 500 000 small children who died lacking medicine in the last few years?

I'm confused. You think crashing planes into buildings full of unarmed civilians is the way to fight for freedom? Its a funny sort of freedom you seem to want. Now, if those terrorists had engaged US troops, or crashed those planes into Capitol Hill, maybe there would be a bit more sympathy for them. But of course, they didn't do that, because, like all terrorists, they are cowards. Engaging unarmed civillians is just so much easier and safer.

As to sanctions, those sanctions were not just applied by the USA. And before you start with knee-jerk anti-US rants, stop to actually research what you're ranting about a bit. Ever think it was odd that Sadam's friends/family/soldiers didn't lack medicine/food/etc? Ever stop to think it might have been Sadam who deliberately withheld those medicines from his own people for his own propaganda purposes so that he could denounce those "evil yankee imperialist aggressors?"

Oh, and those astronauts? They were people trying to push back the boundaries of our knowledge. Bringing light into a dark place and all that? The very nature of spaceflight makes it unique. That means it will always make the news, especially when, given how long it has now been going on, there have still been so few fatal space accidents...

 

[Cutter]

So what do we swedes have in common that the Iraqis dont have? The color of our skin, the christian religion, the economies, the same mainstream culture. So in fact the biggest reason for this news reporting is we have the same "race" and same "superior culture", which indicates the reaons i mentioned isnt as far fetched as u might believe. Cultural Fascism and Rascism is the biggest reasons i said and thatss something i have reaons to belive. But please make my day by letting me put those arguments aside!

Haven't seen many news broadcasts from theocratic middle eastern countries, have you? If you had, you might realise that "they" denounce "us" in the same way that "we" denounce "them".

We call them barbaric savages, they call us godless corrupt sinners. At the end of the day though, you might want to reflect on this:

North or south, east or west, black or white, christian or muslim, democracy or dictatorship, one thing remains the same:

Fat old people send young people out to die after filling their heads with shit. This applies whether you are looking at US troops or palestinian suicide bombers.

 

[Arnet- StoneAge]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arnet- StoneAge
"WHY? Rascism is only reason since when a few military ppl voluntarily dies i dont see any big stuff happening. YES they die voluntarily because they agreed to fight and die in the name of FASCISM. In just the same manner Osama bin ladens men chose to fight in the name of FREDOOM."


I'm confused. You think crashing planes into buildings full of unarmed civilians is the way to fight for freedom? Its a funny sort of freedom you seem to want. Now, if those terrorists had engaged US troops, or crashed those planes into Capitol Hill, maybe there would be a bit more sympathy for them. But of course, they didn't do that, because, like all terrorists, they are cowards. Engaging unarmed civillians is just so much easier and safer.

"the same manner Osama bin ladens men chose to fight in the name of FREDOOM."

So from this u take it my view are that what they call freedom is what I call fredoom? U furtherly belive that its a "funny kind of fredoom you seem to want".

i rally cant se how u draw your conclusions? BUt back to the point, yes they belive they fight for fredoom i believe. I DONT belive they think they fight for the soul purpose to kill innocent people in US.

U say it would be more ok if they had crashed into capitol hill or attacked military forces. Well they crashed one plane into Pentagon which is the biggest symbol for military power exististing in this world. Also the plane that crashed in the desert or wherever it was were AFAIK headed for the white house. Regarding to capitol hill they had a car bomb there that got disarmed though!

Killing innocent ppl was a part of what they considered neccesary means to achieve a goal. I dont think they saw it as a purpose in itself. Look what happened after 9/11. USA and the entire worlds economy has dropped with very great significance. The worlds biggest arilines has had to shut down, i think even ameran arilines had to, once the secound biggest actor in the buisness!

So if u look at how well they achieved to make influence the death of 2500 ppl were not the biggest "sucess" they made. Putting fear into those that normally have monopoly on terrorist acts is the biggest one id reckon they believe!

Arnet

Ever think it was odd that Sadam's friends/family/soldiers didn't lack medicine/food/etc? Ever stop to think it might have been Sadam who deliberately withheld those medicines from his own people for his own propaganda purposes so that he could denounce those "evil yankee imperialist aggressors?"

This statement is a bit absurd. Hope u realize that in even the poorest country the leaders will have medicine in whatverer amount they would need? In fact they have 200 palaces and swimming pools as well. To draw conclusions out oft his concerning to the condition of the country is to put it mildly, INVALID.

What is this about propaganda?! U and I belive that saddam is evil, now why do we believe that! Yes, because the very few media reports we get from Irq tells us so!

At the same time Saddam was quite "popular" among his citizen ( of course a fact deriving from his killings of ppl with other thoughts ), due to what western media calls PROPAGANDA.

My humble question is, how har dis it for the western media to fool us if a dictator in one country can fool most of its own inhabitants?!?

OF course the picture that saddam=evil is MUC MORE easliy constrycted then the picture saddam=good ever can be!

Oh, and those astronauts? They were people trying to push back the boundaries of our knowledge. Bringing light into a dark place and all that? The very nature of spaceflight makes it unique. That means it will always make the news, especially when, given how long it has now been going on, there have still been so few fatal space accidents...

Few fatal space accidents? Hmm appollo 8,add to that the russian dog Laika and a BUNCH of monkeys and u will have pretty damn bad statistics concerning we have made VER FEW space travels!

Arnet

 

[Arnet- StoneAge]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arnet- StoneAge
So what do we swedes have in common that the Iraqis dont have? The color of our skin, the christian religion, the economies, the same mainstream culture. So in fact the biggest reason for this news reporting is we have the same "race" and same "superior culture", which indicates the reaons i mentioned isnt as far fetched as u might believe. Cultural Fascism and Rascism is the biggest reasons i said and thatss something i have reaons to belive. But please make my day by letting me put those arguments aside!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Haven't seen many news broadcasts from theocratic middle eastern countries, have you? If you had, you might realise that "they" denounce "us" in the same way that "we" denounce "them".

We call them barbaric savages, they call us godless corrupt sinners. At the end of the day though, you might want to reflect on this:

BUt does my point that our media coverage and attention is BOTH RASISTIC and CULTURALLY FASCISTIC loose its point just because also the media coverage in those countries are about the same?!?

North or south, east or west, black or white, christian or muslim, democracy or dictatorship, one thing remains the same:

Fat old people send young people out to die after filling their heads with shit. This applies whether you are looking at US troops or palestinian suicide bombers.

Or Israelian troops i would add. Its Palestina that is agressed by Israel not the way around!

Arnet

__________________

 

[Oby]

one thing remains the same:
Fat old people send young people out to die after filling their heads with shit. This applies whether you are looking at US troops or palestinian suicide bombers.

Make an errata here, thur:

I am getting older bit fatter, but i will never send my kids to any military service.
Of course it doesn+t mean i have to be a member of some sect, but I will fight with any means I have, to learn them to think with their own head. But, aye You made
truthfull statement. Power-greedy people in my homeland, ex-Yugoslavia did that to kids, of course their own kids were stoned, drunk, and made chaos on streets of cities without every punishment from law, while other died without even startin to live...

 

[Cutter]

Heh heh ybO! My point was not against oldies per se, but old leaders.

Take Bush and his troops - instilling them with a righteous fervour by playing brass band music, trumpeting about democracy and fighting an evil enemy.

Compare with the Mullahs sending out young men and women with bombs strapped to their bodies to kill innocent people and telling them the enemy are only infidels and that killing them will send the bomber to paradise.

Not so very different, are we?

Some people just don't want to recognise that fact. That is all that pisses me off. When Arnet grows up a bit more, and expresses himself a bit more clearly, he will eventually realise that the world is not as black and white as he thinks.

We've all been where he is now. As we get older, our views change...

Oh, and don't try to argue with me about space related stuff Arnet. Check out how many manned spaceflights there have been, and how many human fatalities have resulted. The statistics are actually pretty good...

 

[Arnet- StoneAge]

Some people just don't want to recognise that fact. That is all that pisses me off. When Arnet grows up a bit more, and expresses himself a bit more clearly, he will eventually realise that the world is not as black and white as he thinks.

We've all been where he is now. As we get older, our views change..

I dont mind u mocking me, not at all.

But u would seem a bit more serious if u ALSO gave me some arguments instead of just stating that wehave all been where i am now etc.

Im only 24 years old but i have more political experience and knowledge ( including 8 terms of uni this far, where 4 was humaniora ) than many..

But if "all" has been where i am now, NICE!

Then please let it show, i havent seen to many posts indicating in this direction, u seem to be where i was at junior highschool though to be honest.

Arnet

 

[dog]

My POV? Ignore thur, I try to...

As for the media focus these days, it takes very little thought indeed to see they are simply milking, exploiting and making big bucks of our fears, fobias and insecurity

 

[Hector]

I'm confused. You think crashing planes into buildings full of unarmed civilians is the way to fight for freedom? Its a funny sort of freedom you seem to want. Now, if those terrorists had engaged US troops, or crashed those planes into Capitol Hill, maybe there would be a bit more sympathy for them. But of course, they didn't do that, because, like all terrorists, they are cowards. Engaging unarmed civillians is just so much easier and safer

"Cowardly"? Isn't all war cowardly? The use of more brute force and resources than you calculate the opposition has to make them do what you want them to do?

Would you have found it less cowardly if Osama had dropped a nuke on NY and Washington from Enola Gay II? Is that more the path of heroism? Seems to me they set a precedent right there.

And what's with this 'grow up' BS? Have you relinquished your mod duties for the sole purpose of making personal attacks on Arnet?

 

[Oby]

I dont mind u mocking me, not at all.

But u would seem a bit more serious if u ALSO gave me some arguments instead of just stating that wehave all been where i am now etc.

Im only 24 years old but i have more political experience and knowledge ( including 8 terms of uni this far, where 4 was humaniora ) than many..

But if "all" has been where i am now, NICE!

Then please let it show, i havent seen to many posts indicating in this direction, u seem to be where i was at junior highschool though to be honest.

Arnet

Arnet, ther is a problem here. You cannot gain UNDERSTANDING merely through hearing or thinking over on some arguments. I believe you when You say about
your experience and knowledge, but knowledge alone is like having material for building house, but not knowing how to build it. In this metapher, experience is like trying to fathom the gist of building the house and then building it, and real UNDERSTANDING comes after time used in this activity. If i for example say to You now, that its all garbage what u said, and it is REALLY true, and You don´t understand this, then You will try in every possible way to negate my words. But that will not change Truthness of them. Plz forget every political and other issues at moment, and try to think open and sound. Reread whole topic and answer maybe next week but really try to be sincere at least when posting here, otherwise no one will gain insights from Your postings....