To EVERY Dutch student!

[uZi]

/me adds some arsenic into thur's drink then leaps out the door

@ dutch students - everyone else has had to get used to the idea of huge debts, now its your turn, think thats the general message. Could do with all gettin together politically and trying to fight against it tho *shrug*

 

[Cutter]

Originally posted by Wintermute
What a Joke.

Is Thur even suitable to be an admin of these forums?

The delicious irony of being unable to respond to an insult without having another go yourself, then trying to take the moral high ground is just precious.

"Fuck you" isn't acceptable, but "petulant little boy" is?
I know which one I find more offensive.

But then it's all okay when you make an offensive post, then rush off and edit it, isn't it? That way you get to insult someone in a public forum, yet manouver it so that their perfectly valid response appears churlish by changing history...

Just out of interest, why has the offensive stereotype "smoke less dope, read more books" post by your Brother not been mentioned?



ps> There is, as always, a difference between laughing at problems, and laughing at people. For all your careful (some would say anal) diction, I would have expected more.

1. Aye, my original post was meant as a joke. SHame some didn't get it.

2. On what basis do you consider me unsuitable? If you have a grievance, speak with the admins, or better yet, Martz.

3. If you insult me, don't be surprised if I respond in a sarcastic manner.

4. As to acceptable language, read the forum rules. Then come back and pontificate.

5. Which offensive posts have I edited? If we're speaking of editing, how about your editing of my posts in =[FDC]= forums to make my comments appear bad by quoting them out of context.

6. As to the dope smoking comment, it was meant as a joke too I imagine. TIMMAH didn't seem to have any problem with it, so frankly, I guess its nothing for you to get your knickers in a twist over either Wint.

7. If we want to be anal, my original post was phrased in general terms. I didn't specifically single out timmah. His post on the other hand was a personal insult specifically directed at me. In terms of the rules of this forum, I would be pefectly entitled to ban him and close this thread blablabla. I didn't. I chose to be mature about it. Contrary to what you may think, hope or believe, I am not an insane, power-crazed weirdo.

If that offends either you or him, I can rectify that problem very quickly.

Now instead of weighing in with more irrelevant static, why not just get back to the original thread topic, or I'll simply close it and you can go spam another one.

 

[JACKEL]

well we can go on and on 'bout this..but i think the fact is that we dutchies might have to live with it..and its a bit unfair to come in here and start telling how much u like it because u've paid allready.

well and thur and winter dont go call eachother names and stuff

 

[ProPain]

I agree with Jackal on this one.
Just because other people in other countries have huge debts after graduating, doesn't make it a good idea.

you can drive your car with your feet, but that doesn't make it a good fucking idea now does it?

 

[foxy]

ahh ace! a nice heated er er discussion.

LoL at winty...i see u managed to search out a wee joke of mine and try to convince people it was an insult. Chill out you lot ffs. The dope thing was of course a joke and being a student myself I get all the usual jokes too....big deal!

anyway back off thur u lot, I dont think thurs post was controversial enough to merit the torrent of abuse he faced esp. from Timmah, so who can blame thurs defensive posts!

Why u get so pissed Timmah? I mean thur is right all students face the same financial problems. The reason is simple...university used to be rather elitist and only covered the more academic subjects. Now because of beaurocrats and political correctness the governments are aiming to get 50% of people going to uni. There is no money for this! that is why grants abolished and fees introduced. I think it would be best economically speaking to let universities remain elitist and concentrate on good collages and apprenticeships etc. That way less academic people have a better chance of getting useful skills, rather than a useless degree and lots of debt!

I guess people just have strong feelings since lots of students here...

as usual I see wintermutes posts only serve to enflame peoples already frayed tempers....

 

[foxy]

just read my post...I'm losin my flame skills....I'll try again...

fireball: your only post is one insulting thur, isnt even ur argument so why not fuck off you fartface.

Timmah: whats your problem lol "fuck off thur... FUCK OFF" haha, geez u must really really need a shag, you gayboy!

Wintermute: get lost u thick, LOW IQ, baldy argument starter haha...that'll rile him up!

Jackel....or should I say Pamela!: fancy somkin some pot together! lol u sexy bruddah!

Stompa: suck my balls....oh, he hasn't posted, ah well suck em anyway!

Foxy: how come you so damn good in all respects? hehe

I think we should start a tempertantrum thread where anyone in a bad mood, that time of month, really needin a shag, et etc can flame each other, that'd be ace I love a good squabble.

 

[foxy]

oops missed one ...

uzi.suicide or whatever...

"
/me adds some arsenic into thur's drink then leaps out the door

@ dutch students - everyone else has had to get used to the idea of huge debts, now its your turn, think thats the general message. Could do with all gettin together politically and trying to fight against it tho *shrug*
"
why not add some down ur own throat?

"fight against it tho *shrug*?? "

...the only problem here is the government is trying to force large numbers of thick people, not suited to it, to go to university, wasting their time and money. Simply so they can print unrealistic targets etc to impress stupid voters into voting them in for another session!

 

[Wintermute]

Originally posted by foxy
anyway back off thur u lot, I dont think thurs post was controversial enough to merit the torrent of abuse he faced esp. from Timmah, so who can blame thurs defensive posts!

And that's what we call a Freudian Slip.

 

[TIMMAH]

Simple.. Thur's post was directed at me, a reply to my post, which makes it personal in the first place! And he's enjoying the fact I have to pay twice as much (which i can NOT afford) so I have to quit my study. And he finished he post with "PAK AAN!" which means "TAKE IT!".

I dont get upset easily, but that attitude makes me sick.
Like the Dutch deserve this, *not* funny at all.

 

[Mughi]

Originally posted by foxy
Why u get so pissed Timmah? I mean thur is right all students face the same financial problems. The reason is simple...university used to be rather elitist and only covered the more academic subjects. Now because of beaurocrats and political correctness the governments are aiming to get 50% of people going to uni. There is no money for this! that is why grants abolished and fees introduced. I think it would be best economically speaking to let universities remain elitist and concentrate on good collages and apprenticeships etc. That way less academic people have a better chance of getting useful skills, rather than a useless degree and lots of debt!

As has already been mentioned, just coz it happens in other countries, doesnt make it right.

The system is changing, and the link Timmah posted was for a vote, meaning *something* is being done to register opposition to the change.

I kinda (but not completely) agree with you Foxy .... I dont like the thought of having to pay a fortune for education, but yes, there are a lot of useless degrees, and the entrance qualifications have dropped dramatically. However, I dont think paying for it helps, poor intelligent kids wouldnt be able to go, while rich thick kids could still make it. Raising the entrance qualifications might be better for that, but then the unis are stuck for funding

 

[foxy]

aye i see what u mean mughi, i guess there is no easy way to solve problem, it just bugs me esp. since the way it is now with all the fees etc bright but poor kids are put off going to uni and all the spaces fill with thick rich kids doing pointless degrees and whos "daddies" will prob. get them a job anyway. At least before bright but poor kids could be paid grants to get em thro uni. If ur thick and poor and go to uni to do useless degree you are doubly shafted cos u get even poorer and have shite degree and no skills. Grr.... lol Timmah I'm getting angry now too!

winty....lol well spotted, must have been a typo

 

[foxy]

achh dinni worry about it timmah im sure thur doesnt like the thought of any students having to quit etc, as for paak ann or whatever lol ahhhhh now i know what it means lol.

foxy wraps timmah in cotton-wool and gives him a cuddle, and protects him from naughty Tur!

Winty!! I'm dissapointed ur last post was a bit tame, there was me thinking I could rely on you to spice the forums up a bit and make em more fun. Ah well....

howz me spam counter doing?? hmm still few thousand behind everyone else lol!

as you can tell I have a mountain of assessments that need doing and I'm avoising them by writing loads of crap here....what u doing foxy ffs, u never gonna get it all done....fuck ok, ur right im off....

 

[JACKEL]

did u know that foxy and me are really brothers

@the pamela comment ROFLMAO

i was just wonderin what is a normal slary for a geezer who comes from uni?

in holland im gonna make about 2000 euro's as a starter

(i cant be bothered to look up how much pounds that is )

 

[Ezby]

Afaik graduate salary in UK is anything between £14-16k (E20-23k)

Plse feel free to correct me on that figure, but i think its about right

 

[Spirit]

No afaik you are right on that babe.

Also another interesting figure to take into account is that the average student earns £400k more than the average non-graduate over their working life. Of course this varies from student to student, but take into account the phrase ‘average’ means there is 50% above that figure as well as 50% below.

Now personally, as long as the re-payments do not commence before a reasonable wage has been achieved and are not to high on a monthly basis, I do not see £15k of debt is such a huge problem when you are going to benefit to the tune of ~£385k over all. This also means any students who do not do well at Uni may never have to pay back the debt as you do not start repayments until you are earning a wage from which you can afford to do so. Obviously I wouldn’t condone debts of a much large size, the concept of someone coming out of uni with a £50k debt is ridiculous.

I didn't go to Uni ‘cos it's not the life-style for me, but if I had I wouldn't of been too bothered about taking out a couple of loans to cover the cost, as long as I knew I was going to benefit and be able to pay them off in the end with more than enough profit for me left over. If I wasn't confident that I would obtain a reasonable degree and therefore earn a decent wage, I wouldn't have gone to Uni in the first place as it would of been a pointless exercise.

My final point is that I think it is FAR too easy to get into university, at least in England. Not only does it mean a reasonable degree is worth pretty much diddly-squad to most employers now ‘cos every man and his dog has one, but it also means there are a huge amount of students coming out of Uni with either no or shitty degrees, then not earning a good wage and being stuck with the large debt. Personally I think entrance to Uni should be means tested (i.e. mental ability, motivation etc) more so than it is now and only a smaller percentage should actually be allowed to get in – something along the lines of entrance exams would be a good example. The conclusion of this would be that there are less students coming out of Uni with no degree and lots of debt, instead you have much higher pass rates and students coming out with a debt which they can afford to pay off and will benefit greatly from over all.

To me this seems like a damn site better option that taking from the poor (i.e. the lower end of the tax payers who will never even earn average wage, such as a non-educated factory worker who is trying to support a wife and kids on £12k a year) to pay for others to get educated and earn far more than he will ever see in his life…

Oops I ranted

 

[Lex_Mortis]

Like every country we have different levels of education.

Its like this:

University
HBO
MBO

The people who are doing MBO are getting all the education for free basicly, they get more money monthly and wont have to pay it back. But as soon as you move up on the level of education you will get less money and if you dont do well you need to pay it back. The new plans are only for the higher levels so HBO and Uni. And thats so fucking unfair!

I dont see why stupid people get money for free but when you are smart you get less...

All the stupid people and dropouts of the higher levels end up in MBO. So the most students go to MBO, so they cost the most since there are so many. Why just get money from the higher levels? Get money from the lower too!! Support the smart!

*breath in... breath out...*
*sigh*
Ok, im done

 

[Spirit]

I think you'll probably find, Lex, that your government like most doesn’t physically have enough money to pay for every person to be educated to such a high level. If they were to pay this they would have to take money from budgets such as defence, health care etc, either that or increase taxes and take more money from those who are already struggling to feed their family. Neither of these are acceptable solutions, atleast not in my eyes - you need the other budgets for the safety and well being of your country, and you cannot justify taking money of already very poor people to put towards education of those who are going to earn much more later in life.

Therefore they have to prioritise who is educated, and to what level. Obviously to get to Uni in the first place you have to have the lower qualification, so the government has no choice to pay for the lower ones first, then whatever is left over can go towards higher education...

Unless you mean those three levels of education are all done at the same age group which isnt the same as us - our system is progressive where as you have to have GSCEs to do A Levels, you then have to have A levels to get into Uni, then you have to have a Uni degree to go on and do a Masters (or at least 99% of the time). Having 3 choices at the same age is a strange way of doing it, and I guess their psychology in sharing the money is that everyone has to be educated to a certain level in order to ensure the country continues running well, after they have paid for that to happen they can put anything left over towards those that have the capabilities of obtaining a better qualification.

However, this comes back to my original point in that if you are studying for a higher qualification you will earn much more money over your life time, and therefore will be able to pay the government back their loans from the large wage you are earning once you have got your qualification...

 

[ProPain]

lex you might wanna simmer down a bit.
saying stuff like

I dont see why stupid people get money for free but when you are smart you get less...

basically you are calling everybody at MBO stupid.

That really annoys me, if you are so elite and intelligent then you should know that society is built up with brainiacs and workers.
Usually the baker who bakes your bread, and the plumber who fixed your pipes don't have uni degrees. But that doesn't make em stupid !

I understand what Spirit means with
I didn't go to Uni ‘cos it's not the life-style for me

I feel the same, I know a lot of so called UBER uni students and a lot of them say stupid stuff like you do lex.
Not my kind of people tbh

 

[Wintermute]

Here's a thought for you.

perhaps, just perhaps, it's nothing to do with going to university that results in higher earnings, and more to do with having the intelligence to get there in the first place.

I know that My University education was basically an utter waste of my time. It was an unfocussed, wishy washy degree with pretty much zero applicability in the real world. For the record, I studied a Hybrid Computer Science / Micro Electronics Degree, not the most esoteric degree course.

Perhaps it's just a reflection on the economic times we live in, but of the hundred or so Alumni of Universities I know, not one of them is making much in the way of money.

Studying through University in the UK is not worth 15K in debt, Hell, it's hardly worth the course fees.

I remain convinced that the main (possibly only) benefit of a higher education with the exception of those professions like Doctors or Lawyers where a degree is the entry qualification, is the social experience, friendships, networks built for the future, etc.

And, for me, that's the thing that makes student loans and brutal fees so bad... the actual courses are shit-in-a-can, and paying so much for them seems harsh.

 

[Lex_Mortis]

ProPain, what I said was harsh, but close to reality.
Are you actually claiming that MBO are smart??

by ProPain:
Usually the baker who bakes your bread, and the plumber who fixed your pipes don't have uni degrees. But that doesn't make em stupid !

You mix useless and stupid there.. I never said they were useless, just stupid...
They are 'physical jobs', dont require much thinking more like routine stuff..

by ProPain:
society is built up with brainiacs and workers.

Thats true and I know that. But if everyone knows that and its a common fact, why cut back on the money for brainiacs but not the workers?

The earth is moving on and more and more 'work jobs' are replaced by automated procedures and machines. NL is already behind in Europe when it comes to higher educated people. Importing knowledge and intelligence from outside NL to NL is more expensive and not a smart way to solve it..
We most educate the people not "stupify" NL and get Brainiacs from outside NL..