Well from my view on things in Scotland,i agree relationships with other cultures and folk of different religions staying in your country should be at least giving a go and folk should try hard to live together without friction etc.What ive noticed doesnt help the matter is (for example) refugees come to Scotland they spend time in Dungavel detention centre , once released and they have permission to stay in the country they are given £15,000 pounds,moved into a fully furnished council flat/house and given all the benifits thats going.Now i can see why that may cause upset in the community when people who have stayed here all there days have waited on a council list for a flat/house for many years and are passed by in an instance, and its not just 1 or 2 refugee`s it has ended up 100's in the 1 community.This imo causes upset and stirs racial and religious hatred amongst a percentage of Scottish people towards not just refugee`s but extends to people from other cultures/religions.
The Dutch Situation atm...
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Ok rob, it can't be solved with a magic thingy in 2 days. But breaking through the barrier will be kinda hard. Here's an example.
Last week our Minister of Foreign Affairs went to visit a muslim Church. She went to the Imam there, and she wanted to give him a hand. The Imam refused to give a hand because she was a woman.
. Now with that kind of behaviour the barrier gets even thicker and thicker.
Last week our Minister of Foreign Affairs went to visit a muslim Church. She went to the Imam there, and she wanted to give him a hand. The Imam refused to give a hand because she was a woman.
. Now with that kind of behaviour the barrier gets even thicker and thicker.
Martz said:
I'd agree with that 100%. I made that point as well - lack of integration is what causes friction. Problem is, some people don't want to integrate.
I think the problem here in a lot of cases is one of wordage. Many people are critical of islam / the immigrant situation etc. That does not make them racists. But, modern political correctness seems to equate criticism with racism. Which is wrong.
@Hector - sorry, but I've just heard all the mainstream religions say the same thing you are saying in previous posts - i.e. "OK, it says that in our holy book, but its not really meant like that / its only a metaphor / we aren't really dribbling psycopaths."
To which, I'm sorry, my answer would be: No, you are hypocrites, which is worse. Trying to find weasel words to explain away or somehow excuse the lunatic fringe of a religion just because the nutters take the holy book literally is no excuse. If anything, at least I'd respect the nutters for being true to their book.
In my own personal view, the problem with all the big monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam & Judaism) is that all arose in a middle eastern, nomadic, tribal, desert area where there was a chronic shortage of women and water. None of those religions, and most of what is written in their scriptures, is in no way relevant to a modern democratic country. Which is why we have the problems we do.
If those religions all practised what they preached - "love thy neighbour" - that's fine. But religious imperialism and expansionism and a "death to non-believers" attitude is, quite frankly, so much middle-aged, irrelevant horseshit.
Thuringwethil said:
I'm not apologising for them,or jusitfying their religion. I'm simply saying that as the vast majority of muslims don't go hacking off every western head they can find then either there's a hell of a lot of rubbish muslims who aren't doing what they're supposed to OR there must be at least one other less literal interpretation of the Koran that most of them subscribe to. By tarring the peaceful pople with the same brush as the fundamentalists you're enforcing the view that all muslims are psychotic war mongers, which is blatantly not the case.
Furthermore, although I agree with your opinion that these archaic religions are not going to solve the problems over there I would also like to point out that decades of the West interfering in their governments and to all intents and purposes installing their own tyrants for their own ends has been and still is a major contributory factor to the internal chaos and the hatred of the West, and continually vetoing and ignoring the only multi national governing body available is also not a useful way to go.
Not quite Tzu ... There is a HUGE difference between refugees, immigrants and illegal immigrants.Tzu said:
Immigrants are people who want to move to whatever country for whatever reason, they pack up and leave home. We have a couple of friends who are Glasgow born and bred who have immigrated to Canada. We have friends from America who have immigrated here. They arrive and look for work and rent houses the same as everyone else from the money out of their own pockets.
Illegal immigrants (from what I can tell) are the people that seem in general to be tarred with the "They come here to mooch off our benfits system".
Refugees are an entirely different case. These are people who are in fear of their life, safety or freedom and come to a safe place to stay, by rights they have to ask for asylum in the first (safe) place they come to, so anyone coming to the UK in a ferry has come through a European country that was safe and (in theory) gets sent back to their to claim asylum. Now, if they go through the process properly (which includes asking for asylum straight away at the airport, if you dont, you are usually excluded from application) they then begin the process of applying for asylum. During this time they are housed and given a budget for food. This process can take anything up to 2-3 years, during which they are not allowed to work and the budget can run out so you cannot work for money and the state gives you none so you have to rely on charity organisations for food, toiletries and housing. If at the end of the process asylum is granted they are then allowed to find work and go on council house lists etc. If the application fails, they are taken to Dungavel Detention Centre until they are sent home. Now, Dungavel was a prison until it was renamed and its not a pleasant place at all - the reason for the severity is to make sure that people who arent being given asylum dont disappear but instead, definately go back to where they came from, but its still a prison at the end of the day. The thing being that if they being an appeal process they can stay in this detention centre for another 2-3 years.
Genuine refugees are being treated appallingly, these people leave their family and friends for a good reason, often its university professors, doctors or nurses - for example the Taliban executed "the intelligensia" like these, they came to the UK in the hope of avoiding a bullet and can be locked up for ages and then sent back because we have taken in too many refugees this year. Those who are not genuine refugees - thats another story, and they are there, but genuine refugees dont quite get such a simple - arrive, spend a few weeks in an unpleasant environment and then get a fully furnished council house ahead of residents.
Its misunderstandings like this that aggravate tension, and the media certainly portray it like that.
Hector said:
just an observation - a muslim is "one who submits", specifically, one who submits to Allah. choosing to ignore parts of the Quran because they are morally unacceptable (like choosing not to beat your wife, despite the Quran or choosing not to kill all unbelievers) is an act of human rebellion against god - by definition, not a muslim.
christianity is exactly the same - the hardcore nutter we love to hate are the true christians. Those who choose more moral views of tolerance and love are NOT christians.
We need more recognition of secular society - Secularism is the way forward for society, religion is a dark overshadow of our primitive past.
I tell you what though, if they're focussing on our failings as murderous, thieving immoralists as much as we are on their archaic religious terrorising we will never get this shit sorted out. Causes and effects, that's what should be our concern.
BRaiNRaiN said:
It will stop when there's no muslim schools and churches left I think. The process is hard to stop, especially because of the sad event that triggered it - people will remember it and be angry for a long time.