Gay Marriage

[Wintermute]

The bible ( i cant speak for other religions) says that the marriage is made for male and female

Actually, let's clear some things up here. I'm an atheist, but at one point I considered becoming a baptist minister. I have actually studied the christian scriptures extensively.

The bible doesn't contain the word Marriage ANYWHERE. It makes absolutely NO statement that Marriage is between one man and one woman. Several of the Key figures in scripture had several wives, including king Solomon who kept hundreds of concubines.

The only thing the Bible does say about "taking a wife" is... "Don't do it". 1 Corinthians Chapter 7.

On the topic of Homosexuality, well the bible makes no mention of Lesbians whatsoever, and the various verses typically used to comdemn Homosexual Men can be interpreted as actually talking about use of male prostitutes, rather than simply male-male sex.

Add to this that King David, the ancestor of Jesus, was a Homosexual who fell in love with King Saul's Son, Prince Jonathan. 1 Samuel 18 says "the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own"

Despite David haveing homosexual sex with Jonathan and moving in to live together, he is revered as one of the great "men of god" in scripture.

And yet, Many christians simply don't know what their own Holy Book says, but simply repeat what has been said by hatemongering priests and ministers. Christians are not against Gay Marriage because the Bible says so - it says no such thing.

It's simply a case of the same old prejudice being repeated over and over again until it becomes a tradition.

I respect ur opinion and ur way of life so please choose ur words a bit carefully, because comparing religioun with cancer is too far imo

I can respect that you have a right to have belief, and to follow any religion you wish - but that doesn't mean that I respect the religion itself.

I actually chose the word Cancer very carefully - a cancer is a disease that grows within the body, and "pretends" to be the body's own tissue - but is incredibly harmful and ultimately leads to suffering and death.

That sounds *exactly* like religion to me

That being said (and getting back on topic, I guess) civil partnerships are all that is required, but the key principle should always be one of equality.

 

[Wintermute]

The thing is, someoen doesn't have to be religious to be a homophobe. So even if religion was taken totally out of the equation, you'd still have to face all the bigots who are just against homosexuality because it makes them feel sick.

The difference is that simple ono religious homophobes don't normally get organised and demand that the laws honour their beliefs!!

 

[HUEY]

sigh, how can u say that like it's something every gay person does lol, there are enough hetero-sexual people htat kick on having sex in public places, or even worse obscene stuff, so wtf does htat have to do with gay ppl?

Buy a dog

 

[Mughi]

Right, while I want to drag this back kicking and screaming towards the topic, I want to breifly cover a couple of points.

Same sex partners having children.
This is a much more tricky issue. For me personally, I have no real reason not to allow it. While the normal case is 1 male, 1 female parent this doesnt mean that people who's partner has died arent allowed to raise children, people who's partner has left ... all these sorts of things. And please, please, please never consider homosexuality with peadofilia. Its something I am aware of having had suggested to me over many years in the past. Homosexuals have no higher instances of child abuse than any other group, and in fact there have been some studies showing it to be lower than in heterosexual males. But there are too many ifs buts and maybes to have this discussion properly in amongst this one.

Homosexual couples and public displays of affection.
The only reason to hide this and not hetero pdas from a child is if it is dirty/immoral/wrong - maybe these words are too strong, but there isnt really any other sentiment involved. A child will either grow up to be a hetero or a homosexual adult - seeing homosexuals show affection would not encourage a child to become gay, it would only encourage a gay kid to be more relaxed about coming out.

Homosexuals and Promiscuity
Well, yes, there can be a lot of promiscuity between homosexuals, more specifically male homosexuals, however, if you risk being severely beaten any time you approach someone that you fancy (And I am not talking about a slap or swift knee to the testicles, I am talking about a possible hospitalisation) having organised places to meet and have sex is a bit more understandable. However, homosexuals are just as monogamous as heterosexuals once they find a partner they wish to stay with.



Now.
Back to specifically gay marriage.

Please answer this for me :

IF,
both partners can give consent,
it is held only inside a civil registry office, never inside a church,
the phrase used is "civil partnership" - not "marriage",
it allows these couples the same rights as a hetero married couple,

how can there be any objection from the church.

The reason religion was brought into this arguement at all is that even with these conditions the church is doing their best to block it and force people who dont agree with them to practice this aspect of their faith. There is no way anyone could agree that this is a moral thing to do. I would never force someone to follow my set of beliefs, I object forcefully to someone else using the government to force me to follow theirs. As far as I am concerned god and jesus dont exist - if christians wish to respect their gods, thats fine, but I have no reason to and preventing me from doing something that harms nobody because christians wouldnt do it is just plain wrong.

 

[JACKEL]

Please explain "The Burning Times" to me:
In 14th ~18th century non-christians (wiccans/pagans/druids/etc) got burned/hanged/etc, killing between 50.000 and 10.000 people.

So much for the "no killing" commandment..

well as i said before, i cant judge for other people, and esspecssialy not what hapend in the 1800 or what ever.
seems like that was the time when hitler was around cause he burned, gassed, killed a lot of people and the germas did also believe they did god's work.
and we all know that was wrong so a bit silly dragging this into this discussion imo

 

[JACKEL]

hard to believe how some of u here think, pretty much racism in my eyes, saying that (this is how I experience it anyway) gay people have no right whatsoever ESPECIALLY not marriage, why can't it be for them as well lol? It's not because u don't think much of marriage, that they do as well. Them having children is ant entirely other topic tbh icedragon, but I can't see any point at all why ppl would stop gay people from being happy, if marriage is what makes them happy. (and going 'what's next' , is pretty much saying that they shouldn't have ANY rights at all, cuz OH MY GOD WHAT IF THEN THEY GET ANOTHER RIGHT THAT WE ALL HAVE?! THEY CAN'T HAVE IT !! NEVAH!!!!!)

have u read anything what is said in here?, cause all ive been sayin is that marriage imo is for hetero people and i dont care if gay people get a contract or what other kind of bond.
so re read the topic and comment again please

 

[JACKEL]

story.

i dont mind gay people having a partnership as u concluded, mebbe were a bit further here in holland.
mebbe holland is a bit over the top atm with the gayparade's and stuff like that and as huey said, shagging eachother on the parkinglot.

well i've made my point clear several times now, so i'll leave it by this

 

[Toa$ter]

have u read anything what is said in here?, cause all ive been sayin is that marriage imo is for hetero people and i dont care if gay people get a contract or what other kind of bond.
so re read the topic and comment again please

ye i read the start of the thread, and sorry but I immediatly wanted to comment on the first few posts Iraed, and btw jackel, I wasn't aiming at u or anyone in specific lol (and as my post said, that is how I Experienced what was said at the start

 

[JACKEL]

this thread eveolved toaster

 

[Toa$ter]

I know, evil thread
cba to read all of it before I could say what I wanted to say

 

[HUEY]

I know, evil thread
cba to read all of it before I could say what I wanted to say [/QUOTE

You got that DoG yet Toast ????

 

[Cazzy]

Gay/homosexual marriage as in married in church is just a no-go, and a complete affront to god imo. Want to be homo, fine, but leave the church, and preferably everyone else, out of it. Priests doing it anyway should be sacked immediately. Im not some churchgoing

Yes let's all leave the church if you're gay. Because if you're gay you can't be a believer of God. You're an blasphemer. They must burn in hell where they belong. Leave the church. begone with you all. Oh yes. And while we're at it let's just get blond ppl with blue eyes in the church and the rest should leave. We need to choose our ppl!!!!

Oh wait now I remember what I hate about religion. ppl who often can't open their eyes that a world can change. Fortunately because I would hate to see there's still a inquisition around to kill the witches/gays/etc.

 

[Maz]

If faggs wanna be faggs and lesbians wanna be lesbian , i dont give a shit , doesnt really bother me. But bending the bible and sacrament of marriage from heterosexual to homosexual is wrong.

[EDIT] yea sorta wut largo said

 

[Mughi]

If you dont want to "bend the bible" you know you should kill gay people and not have sex before marriage as examples.

But anyways, thats not the point. Did you actually read the thread?

Nobody is interested in changing the churchs rituals - what I have asked is why the church is involving itself in civil cases when they have no business, in particular when its two people that are not part of that church.

 

[Wintermute]

If faggs wanna be faggs and lesbians wanna be lesbian , i dont give a shit , doesnt really bother me. But bending the bible and sacrament of marriage from heterosexual to homosexual is wrong.

[EDIT] yea sorta wut largo said

Jesus Fucking Christ, do your knuckles scrape on the groun when you walk, redneck?

"if faggs wanna be faggs" ???

That's no way for human beings to talk. If you can't talk about a group of people without using such an offensive term, then I don;t give a shit what you think.

NEXT!

 

[IceDragon]

If faggs wanna be faggs and lesbians wanna be lesbian , i dont give a shit , doesnt really bother me. But bending the bible and sacrament of marriage from heterosexual to homosexual is wrong.

[EDIT] yea sorta wut largo said

yea sorta wut wintermute said

 

[Maz]

perhaps gay people could have theire own church or something ? special gay preists ? it should have the same effect as a normal marriage (papers etc.) , simply NOT INVOLVING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND PRIESTS. I myself dont support anything gay , but at least that would be a solution that would make everyone happy , both the catholic church and the queers. I.E - The catholic church had theire bible and beliefs for years (like any religion) , and suddenly some people who have diffrent beliefs randomly come along and try to change it. Fair ? not . In fact qiute rude and obnoxious. Then again we have the gays who are pissed off because they cant get married , and feel the church is being obnoxious and prejudice towards THEM. There has to be a solution to make everyone happy, because this shit cant carry on forever eh ?

 

[Mughi]

Well, that is a really, seriously offensive view with no backing for it at all.

 

[Wintermute]

Your Catholic Church sat by and did nothing whilst it's priests fucked children. In fact, there's plenty evidence that your church deliberately protected priests from prosecution by moving them around - in the process giving them fresh victims to abuse. That being said, this has *nothing* to do with the Catholic Church, as you would know if you had read the thread.

I'm sorry, but your continued use of slurs like "queers" and "faggs" says everything I need to know about you.

These are *PEOPLE* you are talking about, not some target group for you to hate.

 

[Maz]

Well, that is a really, seriously offensive view with no backing for it at all.

Yes it does have backing , i explained already were the gay want to change the catholic church , but the church wont let them

And i dont see how it is offensive , because i do ont badmouth gay people at all