Basically the "rules" are in fact "guideines" if you want to be pedantic. I seem to recall you and I once had a similar "debate" over a "vote" when it was in fact a "poll". Is there really any need to pick holes in everything?
Freedom of Speech
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Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Basically the "rules" are in fact "guideines" if you want to be pedantic. I seem to recall you and I once had a similar "debate" over a "vote" when it was in fact a "poll". Is there really any need to pick holes in everything?
Well im sorry but the word Rules implies a totaly seperate set of conditions to guidlines. And even if they are guidlines it still doesnt mention anywhere you have to be totally none offensive... As for our little "debate" last time, you conceeded I was correct and revised it to poll rather than vote.
And im not pickin holes in everything. Im just pointing out, along with others. That no where had any mention of Richs' no "offensive" threads been seen. The "guidlines" even spelt out how you should ACCEPT other peoples points of view. This is apparently unless of course your a MOD and don't want too. Then you make your own "guidlines" thats fine as long as everyone is clear that on a forum for Political and Social issues you have to be nice to everyone, and cant offend them as it gets your thread closed.
As for what Rich said about editing his post, well how could Draize and I have constructed our posts to subtly get our opinions across? The world is full of hard facts...
Just out of curiosity Opti how many people did complain, no need to name them obviously
And to Phil... why single me out I can see others posting similar things.........
And im not pickin holes in everything. Im just pointing out, along with others. That no where had any mention of Richs' no "offensive" threads been seen. The "guidlines" even spelt out how you should ACCEPT other peoples points of view. This is apparently unless of course your a MOD and don't want too. Then you make your own "guidlines" thats fine as long as everyone is clear that on a forum for Political and Social issues you have to be nice to everyone, and cant offend them as it gets your thread closed.
As for what Rich said about editing his post, well how could Draize and I have constructed our posts to subtly get our opinions across? The world is full of hard facts...
Just out of curiosity Opti how many people did complain, no need to name them obviously
And to Phil... why single me out I can see others posting similar things.........
I wouldnt bother wasting ur breath Tom. Optical is just using the `thats tough' thing as an excuse to maintain his position. Hes a fine 1 to talk about tone of language considering some of the stuff hes posted. Hes trying to justify the spitting out of his dummy.
Again u wont get an answer. The truth of the matter is that noone protested. SmartAss didnt like it upon 1st reading but he didnt except that US films get `tailored' either. Basically the only person that really got the hump with it was Optical himself. Just look at the actual thread. Not 1 single protest. Every1 is saying `whats the big deal?'. Optical has dug his heals in cos hes not man enough to except that maybe, just maybe he over reacted and now all the other Mods have started turning up to back their m8 cos they feel that they have to. All very touching guys but its transparent.Originally posted by TexasTom
Just out of curiosity Opti how many people did complain, no need to name them obviously
Before anyone makes one further post in this thread, I'd like to refresh everyone's memory as to the rules in the Political & Social forums:
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a. Zero tolerance - if you break any single one of these forum rules you will not be allowed to post in this forum. Any decision made against you will not be up for negotiation.
b. Only post constructive replies/threads which are of a serious nature.
c. Do not post images which are irrelevant or that have no bearing on improving the topic of discussion or evidence.
d. Accept other peoples opinions just as you would wish for them to accept your own. Personal taunts/attacks/imaturity will not be tolerated.
e. Use FACT: or OPINION: to clearly define what you are posting. If you are posting anything which you deam as a fact it should be backed up with evidence obtained from other websites. If you do not provide evidence or further independant reading for anything you declare as a fact you are undermining the authenticity of your statement.
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My post is addressed to everyone here: Either you abide by these rules, or you leave this forum, or you get banned. Simple as that.
___________________
a. Zero tolerance - if you break any single one of these forum rules you will not be allowed to post in this forum. Any decision made against you will not be up for negotiation.
b. Only post constructive replies/threads which are of a serious nature.
c. Do not post images which are irrelevant or that have no bearing on improving the topic of discussion or evidence.
d. Accept other peoples opinions just as you would wish for them to accept your own. Personal taunts/attacks/imaturity will not be tolerated.
e. Use FACT: or OPINION: to clearly define what you are posting. If you are posting anything which you deam as a fact it should be backed up with evidence obtained from other websites. If you do not provide evidence or further independant reading for anything you declare as a fact you are undermining the authenticity of your statement.
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My post is addressed to everyone here: Either you abide by these rules, or you leave this forum, or you get banned. Simple as that.
d. Accept other peoples opinions just as you would wish for them to accept your own. Personal taunts/attacks/imaturity will not be tolerated.
Ban Opti then?
Ban Opti then?
Tom
if you can not follow the forum Rules/guidelines you will loose your ability to post, Mods decisions are final it is non negotiable you dont like that then dont use the forums.
if a mod feels one of your posts/threads is inapropriate you will be asked to edit it (replying TOUGH is not acceptable) or it will be edited removed full stop, personal attacts, taunts imaturity will not be tollerated, if you cannot abide by whats been stated above you will be banned.
if you can not follow the forum Rules/guidelines you will loose your ability to post, Mods decisions are final it is non negotiable you dont like that then dont use the forums.
if a mod feels one of your posts/threads is inapropriate you will be asked to edit it (replying TOUGH is not acceptable) or it will be edited removed full stop, personal attacts, taunts imaturity will not be tollerated, if you cannot abide by whats been stated above you will be banned.
Firstly thanks to all those who have partaken in discussions without throwing teddy out the pram! Esp Spirit and BBStrange.
Well I dont remember being asked to edit my post. Anyway clear and understood, post only what you like or be banned. Just answer me one question, how many complained that it was offensive? This is of SERIOUS interest to me.
I also apologise for misunderstanding Guideline D in particular. Which should read;
D:Accept other peoples opinions ONLY if they match your own. Personal taunts/attacks/immaturity will be tolerated unless directed towards a Moderator.
Reminds me of the time when the Admins used Mercs against BoD in a match LOL After weeks of claiming Mercs were wrong ROFLMAO Oh what happy times
As this will be my last post on these censored forums Id like to just say I feel it is a shame that something that was stirring so much GOOD debate between the more serious and less spammy members of the community is crippled by the "few" power brokers, as is always the case in life. Who upto now had seen content with letting people get slagged etc in the forums. I do apologise for having views contary to the Moderators and obviously now see the advantage of being on the Mods side.
This will be a desolate place within a few months as the discussions will bog down with crap and irrevalances, because all honest or serious thoughts and opinions get you banned or your thread closed!
To Opti: Im sorry you feel people can be so easily offended, these forums were very good, with some good topics. Behaviour like yours erodes the value of these types of things. One rule for you and another for the rest of us, how left wing is that. Ah well should have been a Mod
Tex.
PS: Suppose the we wouldnt have been allowed to post about how the Americans and Brits armed Osama Bin Laden and funded him, trained his men.... And proclaimed him as a hero for freeing Afghanistan. Oh well must not upset our allies across the pond.
Well I dont remember being asked to edit my post. Anyway clear and understood, post only what you like or be banned. Just answer me one question, how many complained that it was offensive? This is of SERIOUS interest to me.
I also apologise for misunderstanding Guideline D in particular. Which should read;
D:Accept other peoples opinions ONLY if they match your own. Personal taunts/attacks/immaturity will be tolerated unless directed towards a Moderator.
Reminds me of the time when the Admins used Mercs against BoD in a match LOL After weeks of claiming Mercs were wrong ROFLMAO Oh what happy times
As this will be my last post on these censored forums Id like to just say I feel it is a shame that something that was stirring so much GOOD debate between the more serious and less spammy members of the community is crippled by the "few" power brokers, as is always the case in life. Who upto now had seen content with letting people get slagged etc in the forums. I do apologise for having views contary to the Moderators and obviously now see the advantage of being on the Mods side.
This will be a desolate place within a few months as the discussions will bog down with crap and irrevalances, because all honest or serious thoughts and opinions get you banned or your thread closed!
To Opti: Im sorry you feel people can be so easily offended, these forums were very good, with some good topics. Behaviour like yours erodes the value of these types of things. One rule for you and another for the rest of us, how left wing is that
. Ah well should have been a Mod Tex.
PS: Suppose the we wouldnt have been allowed to post about how the Americans and Brits armed Osama Bin Laden and funded him, trained his men.... And proclaimed him as a hero for freeing Afghanistan. Oh well must not upset our allies across the pond.
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Tom - Cya.
If you want to discuss things in your own inimitable fashion and with people who agree with what you post, maybe you would be more at home at the BNP forums. That was just my OPINION btw.
If you want to discuss things in your own inimitable fashion and with people who agree with what you post, maybe you would be more at home at the BNP forums. That was just my OPINION btw.
I feel the same way that Opti feels but I'm not a MOD here. If I was I would have closed the thread in question and a few others as soon as they were posted. This forum is based on political and social issues not off the wall theories that some people come up with.
Also, freedom of speach does not aply here. This is a privatly owned forum. IF the owner(Martz) or a representive(MODs) feel a thread shouldn't be posted they have the right to delete or edit it.
Also, freedom of speach does not aply here. This is a privatly owned forum. IF the owner(Martz) or a representive(MODs) feel a thread shouldn't be posted they have the right to delete or edit it.
If you want to state a fact, by all means prefix it with "Fact:" If you do post facts, then always back it up with links to other websites, references to books, journals etc. Particularly if the fact in question is contentious.
If you are stating an opinion, you can either prefix it with "Opinion:" or you can phrase your comment in such a way that you are obviously expressing an opinion.
eg:
In my opinion, horses are evil.
Opinion: Horses are evil.
Those are acceptable.
Simply stating "Horses are evil" though is not. Use your common sense. Do not make a post where you hold an opinion out to be a fact.
Similarly, if you prefix a comment which is rude, threatening or otherwise unacceptable with "Opinion:" then this will not save you.
e.g.
"I am of the opinion that one cannot rule out possible CIA involvement in the Bali Bombing atrocity, for the following reasons: blablabla"
would be acceptable.
"Opinion: The CIA carried out the Bali Bombing"
would not be. In the first example, the comment is non-confrontational, and the writer is showing that they are unsure of their comment, but are refering to reasons why they think it might be possible.
In the second example, you have a bald assertion with no supporting statements or references.
Its all about phrasing. Contentious posts are allowed, but do think about what you are posting, and if in doubt, ask a moderator. If you try to be a smartass, expect to be carried off shrieking into the night by a leather winged demon.
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Opinion: I believe all believe all coloured people are theiving, scrounging, low-life scum of the earth who should be erradicated at every opportunity.
Opinion: I beleive that men are far superior to women and that every woman should know her place, which is in the home caring for their husband and children.
Of course neither of these are my opinion but say they were and I posted them, would you deem them to be ok? Of course not, they are clearly racist / sexist comments, whether my own opinion or not, and have no place on these forums or in society in general.
It's not all black and white...
Opinion: I beleive that men are far superior to women and that every woman should know her place, which is in the home caring for their husband and children.
Of course neither of these are my opinion but say they were and I posted them, would you deem them to be ok? Of course not, they are clearly racist / sexist comments, whether my own opinion or not, and have no place on these forums or in society in general.
It's not all black and white...
Was going to post something like Phear, but he was quicker. Totally agree with his opinion. But i think your common sense should say you what you can post or you better should'nt post.
I don't think there were any offensive replies in the Bali-Thread, and i hardly can imagine that some Americans feel attacked.
*edit: That was my Opinion.
I don't think there were any offensive replies in the Bali-Thread, and i hardly can imagine that some Americans feel attacked.
*edit: That was my Opinion.
Opinion :
Phear, no one said that all AMERICANS were behind the Bali Bombing. I think as adults we all accept that our government do things without the consent of the country (and sometimes without our knowledge) which we would not be too happy or proud of.
If the US government had something to do with the bali bombings then the UK government are also tainted as they are kissing the ass of Bush all the way.
I dont think anyone on this forum can say who was or wasnt involved. All we can post is our 'opinion' Sorry if that offends someone. I sincerely hope that we find that it was some out reach terrorist organisation who did this act. But in the same respect I also hoped that we wouldnt find out that the Government in the US knew there was a big terrorist action expected on September 11th and did nothing about it. Just like I didnt want to find out that the UK government knew about a big terrorist action due on Bali and did nothing about it.
Things arent black or white and if people want to be racist of sexist let them. I think debates with people like that are good. It gives you a chance to talk with them and maybe promote things that change peoples minds. Simply not letting people write things you dont like speak wont stop them thinking the way they do. Seek to talk to these people and if you can encourage them to change or look at things from a different view point.
Admittedly I dont think personal attacks are warranted and if it comes to that the threads should be closed, but other than that let people speak, let us debate against it. Where is the harm in a few adults having a serious discussion they feel strongly about. If this forum is about people saying what the 'management' want to hear then there is little point posting anything other than nods to each other.
Phear, no one said that all AMERICANS were behind the Bali Bombing. I think as adults we all accept that our government do things without the consent of the country (and sometimes without our knowledge) which we would not be too happy or proud of.
If the US government had something to do with the bali bombings then the UK government are also tainted as they are kissing the ass of Bush all the way.
I dont think anyone on this forum can say who was or wasnt involved. All we can post is our 'opinion' Sorry if that offends someone. I sincerely hope that we find that it was some out reach terrorist organisation who did this act. But in the same respect I also hoped that we wouldnt find out that the Government in the US knew there was a big terrorist action expected on September 11th and did nothing about it. Just like I didnt want to find out that the UK government knew about a big terrorist action due on Bali and did nothing about it.
Things arent black or white and if people want to be racist of sexist let them. I think debates with people like that are good. It gives you a chance to talk with them and maybe promote things that change peoples minds. Simply not letting people write things you dont like speak wont stop them thinking the way they do. Seek to talk to these people and if you can encourage them to change or look at things from a different view point.
Admittedly I dont think personal attacks are warranted and if it comes to that the threads should be closed, but other than that let people speak, let us debate against it. Where is the harm in a few adults having a serious discussion they feel strongly about. If this forum is about people saying what the 'management' want to hear then there is little point posting anything other than nods to each other.
[Ramble]
Opinion: There's no such thing as fact unless I see it with my own eyes. Therefore everything is an opinion or an opinion of an opinion and having to point it out is pedantic and annoying.
If it isn't bigotry of some sort or harmful to children then all posts should be allowed
. There really isn't much point in a forum of debate without freedom of speech.
Sure saying something like WW2 didn't happen is stringing yourself up, but if you explain valid reasons for the suggestion then it should be allowed. Some people find certain topics emotianally distressing and always have the option to leave them. Imagine what the communication of the world would be like if we had to take into account the feelings of those who decide to persist in reading/watching/listening to things that are offensive to them. We wouldn't have any communication/art/movies/books/media or freedom of speech. I take responsibilty for my own censorship and every adult on this planet that is capable of doing so should aswell.
Imo, those who are easily offended should stay away from a forum like this, not those who may offend with their thought out and explained opinions. And those opinions shouldn't even need to be well balanced either, otherwise there is nothing to debate.
Cauterising freedom of speech here will ween out the last of the non spam in these forums; I personally would be much happier if mods used their powers to keep out smiley posts and 'yeh, I agree' posts simply for not making any point at all rather than removing posts that actually do make a point. That's why I've been signed up to these forums for 18 months and only made 140 something posts :p
[/Ramble]
Opinion: There's no such thing as fact unless I see it with my own eyes. Therefore everything is an opinion or an opinion of an opinion and having to point it out is pedantic and annoying.
If it isn't bigotry of some sort or harmful to children then all posts should be allowed
. There really isn't much point in a forum of debate without freedom of speech.Sure saying something like WW2 didn't happen is stringing yourself up, but if you explain valid reasons for the suggestion then it should be allowed. Some people find certain topics emotianally distressing and always have the option to leave them. Imagine what the communication of the world would be like if we had to take into account the feelings of those who decide to persist in reading/watching/listening to things that are offensive to them. We wouldn't have any communication/art/movies/books/media or freedom of speech. I take responsibilty for my own censorship and every adult on this planet that is capable of doing so should aswell.
Imo, those who are easily offended should stay away from a forum like this, not those who may offend with their thought out and explained opinions. And those opinions shouldn't even need to be well balanced either, otherwise there is nothing to debate.
Cauterising freedom of speech here will ween out the last of the non spam in these forums; I personally would be much happier if mods used their powers to keep out smiley posts and 'yeh, I agree' posts simply for not making any point at all rather than removing posts that actually do make a point. That's why I've been signed up to these forums for 18 months and only made 140 something posts :p
[/Ramble]
I'd like to point out that the forum rules are not exhaustive - I wrote them in about 2 minutes. Does anyone here think I could write a ruleset which would be perfect, which wouldn't need changing or ironing our problems in the future? Its obvious they need to be changed - however I can see what casuing problems too.
Freedom of Speech is a wonderfull concept when you listen to people you agree with.
So, it seems, the way the P&S forum will operate will have to change. Instead of people debating different things and starting their own topics, once a week a moderator (Thur if she will take the job) will post a thread regarding a topic in the current news or media for discussion.
If you wish to participate and discuss the thread "on topic" you will be able too. The P&S forum rules will then be applicable to the replies to that topic.
How does this sound?
The main problem with DTs post was that the entire topic was not what I consider appropriate for a P&S forum - it better belonged in a forum which catered for conspiracy theories, x-files and anti-american sentiments. However true DTs post may have been (which I cannot say, and I would put money on it - say £100) - that none of the people who visit the forums here have any idea of what is really going on in the world, especially those living in the UK commenting on international affairs and goverment issuses thousands of miles away. And if they did know any goverment or inside information relating to the Bali bombings, i am sure as hell they would be able to post in on a public gaming forum.
Freedom of Speech is a wonderfull concept when you listen to people you agree with.
So, it seems, the way the P&S forum will operate will have to change. Instead of people debating different things and starting their own topics, once a week a moderator (Thur if she will take the job) will post a thread regarding a topic in the current news or media for discussion.
If you wish to participate and discuss the thread "on topic" you will be able too. The P&S forum rules will then be applicable to the replies to that topic.
How does this sound?
The main problem with DTs post was that the entire topic was not what I consider appropriate for a P&S forum - it better belonged in a forum which catered for conspiracy theories, x-files and anti-american sentiments. However true DTs post may have been (which I cannot say, and I would put money on it - say £100) - that none of the people who visit the forums here have any idea of what is really going on in the world, especially those living in the UK commenting on international affairs and goverment issuses thousands of miles away. And if they did know any goverment or inside information relating to the Bali bombings, i am sure as hell they would be able to post in on a public gaming forum.