Fahrenheit 911

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Maybe we shouldn't turn this into a P%S style (read: flame) thread just yet, but..

Thuringwethil said:
I'd have to agree with that statement. I mean, how many naifs out there still thought that their politicians weren't a bunch of lying, cheating, self-serving, warmongering rat-bastards?

I didn't need some dude who styles himself as a "man of the people" raking in his own wads of do$h to tell me that.

Wonder how long it will be until Moore's dodgy tax-evasion scams etc all come to light from all the dollar$ he grosses from these films?

:D
I'd guess at less than Bush and his friends will make through the various companies that have provided resources and that will directly benefit from the war effort (Lockhead Martin/Halliburton/Exxon Mobil to name but a few). And sure you didn't need him to tell you what you already knew, from perhaps another perspective or with a different opinion on the events which have happened. But it is someone elses opinion, and it is just as valid as anyone elses. He has invested his own time and money into doing the research, producing and directing the film, arranging distrubutors, promoting it etc. Should he make money from it? Should Bush make money from his shares in companies which are now making a fortune from the American people and their huge black hole resources?

Moore tax evasion I haven't heard about, care to spare more details? Enron accounting I have, and I hope it turns out to be nothing like that!


Thuringwethil said:
I wonder what any of us would have done better in his shoes? I mean, you rule the reputed richest, most powerful nation on earth, and are suddenly told thousands of your citizens have just been murdered by a bunch of terrorists. Who do you strike back at? Who do you ask to be extradited for trial in the USA? The perpetrators killed themselves in the act remember.

And in a media driven, super-litigious society like present day USA, I doubt any politician would say a damn word without advice from their "advisers". Besides, Bush is just a figurehead really. Like Blair, he is a convenient safety cut-out for those who really pull the strings.
Strike back at Bid Laden? Extridite his familty from Saudi Arabia (just after you let them leave the country) The perpetrators were suicidal, their leaders aren't though. They are still at large and the US is searching harder for WMD than Bin Laden.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you watch the film? The whole point of it is that we are fighting a war against the wrong people for the wrong reasons. There is no conclusive link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

The media are the goverments tool to shape their agenda. Again in this film, Moore points out that Bush' cousin (IIRC) works high level at Fox and was broke reporting guidlines prematurely announcing Bush as the winner, before anything had been concluded. As just one example from the film, which I remember right now.


Moore has said that he has based this on facts, and they all check out from multiple sources. He may have only used facts which support his point of view. Is that anything new? Everybody does that, every single company and business only highlights the benefits of their product. The goverment only make loud press releases for stuff which supports their point of view, and everything else slips through congress in the middle of the night when nobody is around to see it.

But there we go.. thats just what I took from the film, and other MM stuff I have read.
 
in the 50´s planed the top US generals a few terrorist attacks, only that they can say it was castro--->only to have a reason to invade cuba.....

in the 60 they faked the incident in the vietnamese sea...... (brought to light from a guy named Dr.Elsberg i think)

4 presidents in row lied to their peeps in the 60 and 70 about vietnam

....and so on and on and on


there are not many peeps who really care about things in world

the most of the rest......don´t want to know :rolleyes:


nichts ist so wie es scheint !!!
 
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It's rare that something as politically subversive as this film makes the commercial cinema. In Nottingham it is playing at the "Arthouse" cinema where middle-class liberals go to watch hard core porn under another name;) , but it has made the mainstream by showing at UCG which is good imo as it may drag in some viewers who wouldn't go to the showings at the specialist theatre.

Whether Moore turns out to be anything other than a passionate, fat, american left winger, only time (and possibly a boat-load of republican spin merchants) will tell. I like his stuff but I just wish he wasn't so quick with childish innuendo and sneering commentary as witnessed in the film.

Bush is everything that Moore states and then some. He and his ancestors have murdered and cheated their way into American history and have been funded and supported by Nazi's along the way.one of many examples

And this excert from the Economist about sums up the film for me
the war on terror is a confidence trick. Mr Bush is not serious about homeland security, let alone about tackling bin Laden and his Saudi friends. He is simply using terrorism as an excuse for keeping the population in a state of panic while launching a grab for Iraqi oil. Mr Moore ends the film reading a passage from George Orwell's “1984” about how the purpose of war is not to defeat the enemy but to keep your own people subjugated.

It may be that M Moore likes the company of Donkeys and intends to marry one. I just hope he keeps making films and writing books that are thought provoking and encourage discussion.
 
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BBStr@nge said:
I like his stuff but I just wish he wasn't so quick with childish innuendo and sneering commentary as witnessed in the film.

@ Martz: Yes, I've seen the film/docusoap/whatever you want to call it, and BB encapsulates my views perfectly with that sentence quoted above. A good film marred by pretentious, hypocritical and "holier than thou" presentation.

If Moore could learn to be just a little more objective, his films would garner even more critical acclaim. His current methods do little to advance what I assume are the worthy causes he wishes to promote and the critical thought he wishes to encourage.
 
Martz said:
It's out in cinemas on the 9th of July in the UK

Oh great, then we´ll have it in Sweden right before christmas. :yipee:
 
@ the movie:
seen it some days ago and it has a big impact i have to say.
unfortunateley when some time has gone by after watching it, many ppl (including me ? :( ) will forget having a sceptic view on all the things that are happening in the world ( = to them) :\

@ moore:
- one the one hand side i am with thuring's last post absolutely
- on the other: even from a objective point of view one cannot say that moore (in bowling and in fahrenheit too) is fighting for the "bad" guys.

innit?
 
btw(!)

did the US pro-war, pro-army TV-Spots also remind you of a certain movie?
a m8 of mine just whispered the name of the movie to me when those "commercials" were shown in the film and i was like "omg yes u r right! aww fuck that!"

hope someone also realized that
-> anyone wanna guess?
 
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I'd guess Starship Troopers too

"I'm doing MY part!!!"

"Would you like to know more?"
 
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Haven't seen the movie yet, damn slow cinemas :(
Even though, any lame news about bush won't surprise me a lot :o
I've gotten also a bit concerned about kerry&edwards, although they may have a promising mouth i do not trust them fully.
Been watching an interview on 60 minutes by leslie stahl.
Kerry couldn't really answer fully on her questions, and when kerry started to stutter edwards came with a lame reply which didn't make much sense. So in summary I wouldn't even vote for them or bush for the next election.
Btw, John Kerry voted yes for a war on Iraq, which kinda makes me think twice about electing him as president.
 
Guess its like this:
(bash.org)
jdayish: what do you think of bush and kerry
perfectblue_halo: the movie trailer for Aliens Versus Predator comes to mind... "Whoever wins, we lose."
 
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