UT2K4 sounds interesting, just have to accept it as a totally different game and judge it on it's own merits.
What would be nice is legitamising launching in a new gametype and teaching newbies how to do it from the get-go as part of the game; but adding launching to UT2K4 AS will almost certainly not work because of the map design; just look at the standard UTAS maps, only a few of them work and that's a fluke.
Rich said:
one of the major attractions with this game type once you get under its skin is the multitude of different types of players you can be without having "classes"
Stevo said:
More people would have kept playing assault if you'd take 5 minutes out of your day and taught them how to launch
Penny said:
a lot of public servers for a lot of games are full of idiots
I think like most peeps my biggest worry is the linearity (despite Will's posts), but making any multiplayer game more open tactically makes it less popular. I think it's human nature and a hard subject for multiplayer games. XMP is a great game, that feels like it has at least a dozen different classes even though it only has 3. Unfortunatly 75% of people who try XMP just want to be the Ranger with a sniper rifle and cap on their own; then soon enough they're sick of losing and quit playing. On pubs most people will screw teamplay then decide the game is bad because they're not getting anywhere. Then after some time you'll be left with those that like working with teamplay, using their heads and playing tactically. This is the minority (see utal). Other games counteract it by letting anyone contribute on their own (bf1942, CS) but it feels like a gathering of lone rangers than a team game, and the result of the match isn't even important - I've played both games and nobody gives a damn if you win or lose, only how many frags you got.
I disagree that launching was solely responsible for killing UTAS. There was the lamers like Nasty who 'griefed' everyone into giving up (his presence was unfortunatly infamous because of his persistance, and I don't think you can underestimate the effect of that and the handful of others that liked to spoil people's fun); the reluctance to learn something new; the inability for people to work together; the spamming (two decent players on the same team in a spam map will own the match). Hopefully all of these things are looked at in UT2k4, not just launching; but still I get the feeling if it's a good game from our pov then it'll have a small community after a few months.
willhaven said:
... but if you fell back to defend where they CAN get to through launching, then your defense becomes fragmented and weaker...
That's exactly what makes UTAS good and introduces tactical play.
Anyway, I think my point is that UT2k4 AS might be a good game, but good games from our point of view will always have small communities because most people have a completely different view of what a good game is and get more thrill from their last frag than the bigger picture.
some encouraging quotes
willhaven said:
willhaven: IMO the maps are also far more balanced to be fair. guardia was INSANE at the bridge trying to get across. partly because of the map design, partly because of the weapons available to each team, and partly because where and HOW people spawn.
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i think its popular because it offers so many OPTIONS to players
asthenos 
