anti war demonstration

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Jay

Jay

New Member
Aug 27, 2002
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as some of you may have seen there is an anti war demonstration in london today. while im not sure i agree with war i dont think that this helps because it will show people across the world that we are not united and that will make us vulnerable if there was a war.

strange pov i know. but i feel that the demostraters could do more harm than good. tony blair wont change policy on the basis of what they are doing
 
I don't suppose there will be many of the demonstators who are in possesion of all of the facts that have lead up to the threat of war.

Just self opinionated people who make snap judgements without all that much reasoning.

Having said that I don't know who's going to be there so I guess I've just made a snap judgement about the demo without much reasoning.

Oh well.
 
Here's a snap judgement too, and I bet I stand an almost 100% chance of being right:

The kind of people going to that demo will be the same kind who advocated unilateral nuclear disarmament for the UK at the time that the USSR had the world biggest nuclear arsenal and conventional forces almost twice as large as the combined NATO forces.

In other words, blithering idiots who forget that it only needs one sword to start a war, and if you don't have one, or a shield, you will simply get killed for your lofty ideals.
 
well seeing as lots of my friends were there and they have been part of the political, social and actavist areana for 30 years in some cases i think 90% of them were very aware of the facts

and the sword coment, what appens when we "the greater good" are the agressors and when we break international law in the name of antitorrorism when President Blair in his document for war could not connect Iraq to al quida

im glad to see 50% of his own party are able to see thru the spin he is trying to use in order to back up the US

im not pro Iraq and im not pro saddam i am how ever very aware that if China invaded korea in the name of antiterrorism that we would be jumping to hold up internation law etc
 
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That is as may be Bluey, but unless/until Dubya invades iraq without UN support or sanction, he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

He has rattled the US Military sabre. Yes.

He has shown the UN and EU to be an ineffective bunch of ditherers. Yes.

He has said things which other people don't agree with. Yes.

None of those things are actually illegal though. Until he does do something illegal, I'm not going to leap in to criticise just because I hold differing political views to him.

I also think Blair is a total idiot, and not just because I am anti-labour. That is also beside the point here though. Until he actually does something, all his rhetoric is just that. And lets just say that 5 years of Labour government in the UK have shown us that the labour party is long on rhetoric, short on delivery.

And most "anti-war" demonstrators *are* numpties. I've been to these sort of demos before, and found them to be a complete waste of time. They are [leaving aside the large "rent a mob" element present at all such demos, who are just looking to start a fight] generally full of people very polarised in their own view, who will not listen to argument or reason (the very thing they accuse their opponents of) and who naively think the whole world thinks as they do. If it did, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, in this world, you have people capable of waging war & agression if they perceive their opponents to be weak, divided or uncertain. This is a fact of life. It can't be ignored by burying your head in the sand or smoking lots of weed. These people often fail to appreciate that previous generations fought, bled and died so that they could march and moan without being arrested and tortured, or have to live in a police state, or under aggressive foreign rule.
 
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Most demonstrations are usseless indeed!

agree with opti :moon:

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzooooooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz B00m the place fs
 
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i think a demonstration raises the profile of a particular viewpoint be it staffed by intellectuals / tree huggers / bored students, and as the particular viewpoint in this case is held by over half of the population (or at least it was last time i read any stats) it cant be a bad thing provided it doesnt turn unpleasant....

thuring, even though i love it when you get all authoritative, i cant help but wonder why you say "These people often fail to appreciate that previous generations fought, bled and died so that they could march and moan without being arrested and tortured, or have to live in a police state, or under aggressive foreign rule." it doesnt seem terribly relevant, as surely their views count equally even if they appear ill informed. i would have thought previous generations endured those terrible things so that the marchers could be free to do precisely what they are doing without fear?
 
previous generations fought, bled and died so that they could march and moan without being arrested and tortured, or have to live in a police state, or under aggressive foreign rule
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these same generation who fought bled and died because one country invaded another country, the same who created the international law that is about to be broken.

also your view of demonstraighters "And most "anti-war" demonstrators *are* numpties." is utterly wrong, infact it seams you are the one fixed in your views and have you head in the sand.

the vast majority i have met and spoken to are intelligent open minded people .lawyers, lecturers, technicials, local MP's for you to discribe them as numptys is rediculus your talking utter rubish.
 
Originally posted by grizz
thuring, even though i love it when you get all authoritative, i cant help but wonder why you say "These people often fail to appreciate that previous generations fought, bled and died so that they could march and moan without being arrested and tortured, or have to live in a police state, or under aggressive foreign rule." it doesnt seem terribly relevant, as surely their views count equally even if they appear ill informed. i would have thought previous generations endured those terrible things so that the marchers could be free to do precisely what they are doing without fear?
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Dirty boy! ;)

No, my point was simply that regrettably, war is still sometimes necessary, either to protect your freedoms, your people, whatever.

Some people simply think that all war is bad, and we should get rid of all our nasty guns and bombs. Whilst this might be an ideal scenario if everyone did it, this is simply not going to happen. Some people still fail to realise this.

I've probably drifted off topic a bit, but my point is basically:

If you raise your voice, you'd better be prepared to stand up and be counted too when the time comes.

What irks me most about a lot of these demonstrators is that they are perfectly happy to do the complaining, the moaning and exercise their rights, but when push comes to shove, they want others to die to protect their freedoms.
 
I think its pretty fare to say that the biggest weapon that the anit-war brigade display is the fact that possibly thousands of innocent Iraqi civilions would perish in any US led attack. This is indeed a realistic notion and 1 that cant really be argued against...but i think they are missing/ignoring a huge point.

Saddams well reported gassing of the Northern Kurds is believed to have killed approx 5000 ppl. His flooding of the watery southern Shi'i populated areas has effectively starved many thousands more. The persecution of these ppl's continues now as it did then. The effects of heavy sanctions placed on Iraq due to international crimes commited in his name have been passed down the chain to his poorest subjects without a shed of conscience on his part...and in his 30 odd years of rule approx 100,000 ppl have been executed ranging from political enemies to petty crooks.

The slaughter of innocents in Iraq is happening right now & will continue to do so every single day that that man remains in power.

Tbh I dont know what to think about this possible conflict but 1 thing is certain in my mind. The ppl of Iraq have surely suffered enough at the hands of their `glorious' leader.
 
i absoluty agree with all your reasoning DT

but its not just Iraq that has a leader who causes the deth of thousands there are countrys al over the world that have the same, IF we go into Iraq for those reasons shurely we should go into all the others aswell
if not why not ?
 
Originally posted by Bluey
i absoluty agree with all your reasoning DT

but its not just Iraq that has a leader who causes the deth of thousands there are countrys al over the world that have the same, IF we go into Iraq for those reasons shurely we should go into all the others aswell
if not why not ?
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Well the official stance is not for those reasons...but i know what u mean m8. Its a terrible situation all round and i for 1 dont know what would be the best policy...but i cant help but feel that we owe the Iraqi people seeing as it was us that gave the butcher of Bagdad his power in the first place.

Isnt it sickening how this type of scenario comes up in history again & again :mad: :x
 
If we are using the reasoning that we are protecting innocents by attacking Iraq-Then we better round up GWB and all his flunkies and shoot them where they stand.
This justification is bollox imo-the American government kills millions each year fs-then makes hollywood change the end of supposedly factual films so we can swallow just how great they are. Poor fookin justification imo.

America are the worlds biggest killers.
Weapons of mass destruction? dont talk bollox-we SOLD them the fucking weapons in the first place.
And pls correct me if I am wrong - America I believe, REFUSE to stop making and distributing Land Mines - in direct contravention to UN Treaty. They are Currently in the top three land mine manufacturers in the world fs. What a civilised nation eh?

Fuck em-self righteous Bastards.
Iraq and Saddam are so bad aren't they:crap:

What blatant hypocrisy-just the sheep believe that the West kill and maim for good reason - Dylan wrote a song about it - "with God on our side" if our press vilify a nation enough-we can justify killing them.
The true villans are standing erect to the Star Spangled Banner.
Saddam is a nutter it would seem. But he is less of a threat than our own politicians ffs.
 
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Oh well the powers that be have a fuck of a lot more background information than we will ever have so our opinions mean fuck all in the overall scheme of things anyway.

And as far as blaming Bush, Blair or any of the other world leaders for doing what we see as the wrong things then think about the fact that they can't do anything until their dozens of advisors have told them what to do. Are they really to blame for doing something you don't like?
 
Originally posted by BBStr@nge
If we are using the reasoning that we are protecting innocents by attacking Iraq-Then we better round up GWB and all his flunkies and shoot them where they stand.
This justification is bollox imo
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Noone is claiming this. Noone at all.

The official stance from the US & UK is that Iraq is a threat to regional & global security plus they've tagged on the end the compliance failings with regards to UN resolutions. They have never claimed thats its a humanitarian mission to save future Iraqi lives...and they never will. Infact its the anti-war lobby that has brought the `innocent lives' issue to the debate and from what I see its all they bring. My point was to highlight that i believe that this argument is flawed. They seem to think that attacking Iraq will result in certain death for many ppl whilst on the other hand leaving well alone and everything will be fine. This simply is not true. In this case the war opposition groups have gotta work a lot harder to build a convincing argument & try to challenge the official lines rather than cling to a position that does not hold water.
 
This justification is bollox imo-the American government kills millions each year
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Is it your hate for the US that makes you pull shit like this out of your ass or are you just out to piss people off with BS statements like this?

I think Martz needs to add another selection for forum statements here......

Fact:
Opinion:
I have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about:


Whats the point in having a forum like this when people post shit thats not even close to the truth?
 
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