Wtf!!!???
- Thread starter cw33d
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Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
True. The point is that the whole of western system is responsible for many political actions, not only the US.
The US alone have made a lot of enemies by itself as well.
The Israel/Palestine politics is perhaps the most important reason but there are so many other occasions where they have pissed of the fundamentalists. Iran in the 80's, Iraq in the 90's to name but few. The US have surely killed many innocent civilians themselves.
As Bin Ladens Al-Qaida is a kind of coordinating force for radical fundamentalists all over the muslim world, and the core of it consists of people from numerous countries, they have got all the people pissed off at the US and willing to sacrifice themselves under the same command. That is a frightening force. These people are sacrificing themselves for their people and beliefs. Dying in a suicide attack is the ultimate honour for them.
The main thing is that these people are the very cream of madmen/butchers or heroes of the holy war, dependind on the point of view, of numerous islamic countries. Islamic people as a whole can not be blamed just like all christian people were not blamed when Hitler acted in the name of christians.
There is a shitload more things to take into account but doing that would be writing an essay, which I will save for school as I study foreign relations and we'll surely deal with this there as well. Will prolly get a lot of viewpoints that I never thought of from the discussions there, which is always a good thing.
The US alone have made a lot of enemies by itself as well.
The Israel/Palestine politics is perhaps the most important reason but there are so many other occasions where they have pissed of the fundamentalists. Iran in the 80's, Iraq in the 90's to name but few. The US have surely killed many innocent civilians themselves.
As Bin Ladens Al-Qaida is a kind of coordinating force for radical fundamentalists all over the muslim world, and the core of it consists of people from numerous countries, they have got all the people pissed off at the US and willing to sacrifice themselves under the same command. That is a frightening force. These people are sacrificing themselves for their people and beliefs. Dying in a suicide attack is the ultimate honour for them.
The main thing is that these people are the very cream of madmen/butchers or heroes of the holy war, dependind on the point of view, of numerous islamic countries. Islamic people as a whole can not be blamed just like all christian people were not blamed when Hitler acted in the name of christians.
There is a shitload more things to take into account but doing that would be writing an essay, which I will save for school as I study foreign relations and we'll surely deal with this there as well. Will prolly get a lot of viewpoints that I never thought of from the discussions there, which is always a good thing.
the japanese used to feel like that too.
i am anything but a warmonger. but at this time i dont think ANYTHING we do in retaliation will bother me. the US is going to use deadly force and lots of it. what the terroists did is turn the most liberal pacifists into blood thirsty madmen. people here are angry and want revenge. there are going to be a lot more than "trigger men" dying.........innocent victims? lol, those little plastinian kids are making like santa just came down the chimney. they're just the next generation af suicide bombers IMO. i'll be laughing a wicked laugh when i see there carcases on CNN. 
What you feel is more than understandable, and a retaliation is inevitable and justified. However it's what will follow that I'm afraid of. The terrorists have loads of money, and even if the number of civilian casualties of the attack was enormous, they could have made it a lot worse if they had targetted as many civilians as possible. Imagine if they had crashed those planes on nuclear plants. Also, it is commonly believed that the terrorists have suitcase nukes and chemical weapons of horrible power.
They will retaliate, USA will retaliate - a lot more innocent people will die. So I hope that the US and the international community will be able to hunt down the quilty without massive civilian casualty figures.
The sight of people celebrating in Palestine were sickening to watch but in our free world, how many times have we been shown the horror and civilian victims that Israeli people have caused to them. Not often and same goes for Nato operations in general as well.We can only try to imagine how the propaganda is in countries where there is no freedom of speech and media is controlled by goverment. All those people know is what their goverment tells them. And it is not hard to quess what they are teliing them.
They will retaliate, USA will retaliate - a lot more innocent people will die. So I hope that the US and the international community will be able to hunt down the quilty without massive civilian casualty figures.
The sight of people celebrating in Palestine were sickening to watch but in our free world, how many times have we been shown the horror and civilian victims that Israeli people have caused to them. Not often and same goes for Nato operations in general as well.We can only try to imagine how the propaganda is in countries where there is no freedom of speech and media is controlled by goverment. All those people know is what their goverment tells them. And it is not hard to quess what they are teliing them.
Here is the bottom line......Bin Laden and the rest are pissed because they blame the US for all their troubles. Guess what they had big troubles even before we came along. Hey Gen your comments about us training subversives is true we do train them. That is how the game is played. These people have commited the cardinal sin...they bit the hand that fed them. We trained them and supplied them.....now they think they can do what they want....well they have another thing coming.... Bush is going to do what no President has done before....he is going to get the terriorist. The terrorist acts that were commited took years to plan....that is the way they work.......so I guess that means Clintons foriegn policiy sucks......of course not ...this is not about policy this is about a Jihad against the US and all it's alliesand our way of life. I wish people would get off this whole diplomacy thing...it is not the cause of this. I actually agree with Equalizer in that the US gets the role of the bad guy because we enforce UN and Nato sanctions. This is not about justice.......this is WAR and whoever is left alive will be then judged for there crimes not before........after we get our pound of flesh.
freakin quenton..................you go on and on about people adding there political agenda to the conversation. then wtf do you do, you go and step on my toes.......stfu about clinton, he sure as hell wouldnt have given the pussyfied speeches your bush boy did! that being said, i'm 100% behind him because HE is our president now. how about you learn to step in line son? i'm no fan of BC.......wait until you've lived through a few presidents before you judge him against others 
he did a creditable job.
he did a creditable job.
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Where's Reagan when you need him?
They wouldn't have puled this crap on him. Half the known world would have been on fire by now.
People, it dismays me that anyone would even hint that a country's politics would justify any action such as this.
Would everyone be happier if the US pulled out of all worldwide activity? Became a China that just worried about itself? No terrorist attacks against China, must be a good country politically, if that's how you're judging.
They wouldn't have puled this crap on him. Half the known world would have been on fire by now.
People, it dismays me that anyone would even hint that a country's politics would justify any action such as this.
Would everyone be happier if the US pulled out of all worldwide activity? Became a China that just worried about itself? No terrorist attacks against China, must be a good country politically, if that's how you're judging.
For my part I have never said that ANYTHING justifies this. But US/western foreign policy justified this in the minds of the terrorists, just as Iraq's foreign policy justified western intervention in our minds.
I believe in the western values and they must be defended, make no mistake about that. I'm also glad that the US acts as the defender of those values globally. Just pointing out that people previously bombed by Nato felt the same way as you do now and thats what sparked all this horrible shit
I believe in the western values and they must be defended, make no mistake about that. I'm also glad that the US acts as the defender of those values globally. Just pointing out that people previously bombed by Nato felt the same way as you do now and thats what sparked all this horrible shit
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Uhhh I did not judge Clinton as a matter of fact I said his foriegn policy was not bad...please read again before you call me a hypocrite BeerBelly.
<The terrorist acts that were commited took years to plan....that is the way they work.......so I guess that means Clintons foriegn policiy sucks......of course not ...this is not about policy this is about a Jihad against the US and all it's alliesand our way of life.>
If you look you will see I made no ill reference to Clinton policies nor did I make a political statement......I used him because he was the last president and by proxy this would have been planned under his administration. He did nothing to provoke anyone into terriorist actions. I just wanted to show that this is not the fault of any particular person or office or agency. This was going to happen wether we knew about it or not. That was the point of the Clinton reference.....I know emotions are running high and that people are extra sensitive right now but again I said nothing political nor di I take a cheap shot at Clinton. You may apologize at your lesiure.
<The terrorist acts that were commited took years to plan....that is the way they work.......so I guess that means Clintons foriegn policiy sucks......of course not ...this is not about policy this is about a Jihad against the US and all it's alliesand our way of life.>
If you look you will see I made no ill reference to Clinton policies nor did I make a political statement......I used him because he was the last president and by proxy this would have been planned under his administration. He did nothing to provoke anyone into terriorist actions. I just wanted to show that this is not the fault of any particular person or office or agency. This was going to happen wether we knew about it or not. That was the point of the Clinton reference.....I know emotions are running high and that people are extra sensitive right now but again I said nothing political nor di I take a cheap shot at Clinton. You may apologize at your lesiure.
Well I would spell better, but the raw amount of posting I am doing lately causes me to type faster and not check. : )
U all have some good points, but the fact of the matter is that the problem is much more complex than ude think.I dont prettend to know myself, but saying its just envy of vestern wealth or whatever isnt right.Its also not a single prez. fault,, since this has been going on since the 1970`s
Theres been done tons of literature and documentaries on this subject.
Thats how the US play the game anyway.But that unimportant, the thing is, they allways intended to bite your hand. they just used u to get training and weapons, the ends justify the means.I got the feeling u didnt belive they would do this in a prev post, if thats the case u should check out the afgahn thing during reagan\bush also noriega and irancontras while ur at it.
Theres been done tons of literature and documentaries on this subject.
Well did any of those other fly aplane into populated buildings in US territory. I think you are trying to equate this to any other act of teriorism or people we trained and you cannot do that. I get the impression from your post that you are looking for one specific problem for all of this. You are wrong there are several and I think that you are over analizing the whole thing. They pick us because we are the biggest target. If your country were in our position globally then you would be the ones dealing with this tragedy not us. They do hate our diversity and commerece because of the wealth we generate. Another reason is theway we side with Isreal and our treatment of Iraq. Is that enough reasons for you? It is good to ask questions but there has to be a point where questions like the ones you are asking are moot and time to act. It is too late for all this introspecton the damage is done and cries out for vengence.
nice, we both got each other 100% wrong
Anyway i see u got my point and vise versa. I wish i could see the world thhrough your eyes once(and u mine), mebby id understand y we disagree so much when we basicly feel and want the same.Just the methods differ.
Objectivety on both parts is needed i think.