Would you take part in the 6v6 League if it was subscription based?
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Ok well I do think that it is a very good idea. But I am very afraid to say it may be too little too late.
Ok I know that it will make a difference. And if all the clans (in a division) cough up that will be £460
But thats a one off payment ? what happens when the servers up for renewal ? and thats if you can get every clan to pay. A very big headache I imagine
I dunno, hmm
I will pay the 80p or so donation to the clan...
Ok I know that it will make a difference. And if all the clans (in a division) cough up that will be £460
But thats a one off payment ? what happens when the servers up for renewal ? and thats if you can get every clan to pay. A very big headache I imagine
I dunno, hmm
I will pay the 80p or so donation to the clan...
not that anyone reads my posts
the fact clanmembers are bitchin about clan-server payments says enuff i guess...
if i need to chip in on that 10 pound, the bank-transaction fee will be 10 times my payment to the server...(it's allready a hassle to make my clanserver payments worth while)
in the end, it's too much of a hassle for a clan to make it happen, which will end up in 1 member havin to pay for all
and about that "at least 1 clan has to have payed"
does that mean that when i'm in the div. with clans that ALL payed, i won't have to, cous i'm bound to play a payin-clan?
(not that anyone looked to my first post in the first place)
the fact clanmembers are bitchin about clan-server payments says enuff i guess...
if i need to chip in on that 10 pound, the bank-transaction fee will be 10 times my payment to the server...(it's allready a hassle to make my clanserver payments worth while)
in the end, it's too much of a hassle for a clan to make it happen, which will end up in 1 member havin to pay for all
and about that "at least 1 clan has to have payed"
does that mean that when i'm in the div. with clans that ALL payed, i won't have to, cous i'm bound to play a payin-clan?
(not that anyone looked to my first post in the first place)
hmm I don't really know what I think about this idea tbh, the ammount of money is fairly small, but there's the issue of actually getting them paid, which does bring up various problems...
All I can say is that I don't think it will be a prob for any clans to pay the money, if they want to...
All I can say is that I don't think it will be a prob for any clans to pay the money, if they want to...
Details...
From my own point of view, I'd like to know the following:
1. Who would payments *by* the clan be made *to* ?
2. Would we get a receipt of any kind?
3. What, *exactly* would we be getting for our money? Rather than rent clanbase servers, might it not be an idea to use subscription money to buy the league's own servers, and have them hosted at a co-location centre? Of course, then non-UK players will moan if all the league servers get hosted in the UK. Still, hardware is cheap these days, and a linux box running a dedicated UT server has no real need of its own monitor/graphics card/keyboard etc, so you could probably spec quite a fast bare box together for a couple of hundred quid...
4. *If* prizes are going to be on offer, rules & server security are going to have to be tightened up *a hell of a lot more* than as things currently stand. At the moment, no-one really pays anything for the league itself, [excluding Phear's time, ISP costs etc], so people don't really give much of a toss about the cheats, but if prizes are suddenly on offer, the incentive for clans to use aimbots, mercs, etc etc suddenly becomes much greater. I mean, given the flame wars which start after ION v Mi5 matches just now, can you *imagine* what they would be like in a league with prizes on offer? If people are *paying* here, no one is going to want long arguments about nebulous rules, or "unwritten rules" about things like mercing etc.
The other issue is clans with geographically diverse members, where the cost of bank transfers outweigh the cost of the subscription share they have to pay. Of course, people could always send cash through the post, and if someone loses the equivalent of £1 via post which "goes missing" that is probably not much of an issue for most people. AFAIK, 1st class letter post throughout the EU is about 27pence? From an administrative point of view, a yearly standing order might suit people, but then there is the hassle of someone leaving one clan to join another...
Oh well, just my tuppence worth. In theory, it might be a good idea. In practice, a *lot* of niggly little details would need to be sorted out. You might even end up having to incorporate the League as a charitable/non-profit company/organisation, because if people are handing over their cash, they may want more assurance than just "the word" of someone they only know via the net on where it is going...
From my own point of view, I'd like to know the following:
1. Who would payments *by* the clan be made *to* ?
2. Would we get a receipt of any kind?
3. What, *exactly* would we be getting for our money? Rather than rent clanbase servers, might it not be an idea to use subscription money to buy the league's own servers, and have them hosted at a co-location centre? Of course, then non-UK players will moan if all the league servers get hosted in the UK. Still, hardware is cheap these days, and a linux box running a dedicated UT server has no real need of its own monitor/graphics card/keyboard etc, so you could probably spec quite a fast bare box together for a couple of hundred quid...
4. *If* prizes are going to be on offer, rules & server security are going to have to be tightened up *a hell of a lot more* than as things currently stand. At the moment, no-one really pays anything for the league itself, [excluding Phear's time, ISP costs etc], so people don't really give much of a toss about the cheats, but if prizes are suddenly on offer, the incentive for clans to use aimbots, mercs, etc etc suddenly becomes much greater. I mean, given the flame wars which start after ION v Mi5 matches just now, can you *imagine* what they would be like in a league with prizes on offer? If people are *paying* here, no one is going to want long arguments about nebulous rules, or "unwritten rules" about things like mercing etc.
The other issue is clans with geographically diverse members, where the cost of bank transfers outweigh the cost of the subscription share they have to pay. Of course, people could always send cash through the post, and if someone loses the equivalent of £1 via post which "goes missing" that is probably not much of an issue for most people. AFAIK, 1st class letter post throughout the EU is about 27pence? From an administrative point of view, a yearly standing order might suit people, but then there is the hassle of someone leaving one clan to join another...
Oh well, just my tuppence worth. In theory, it might be a good idea. In practice, a *lot* of niggly little details would need to be sorted out. You might even end up having to incorporate the League as a charitable/non-profit company/organisation, because if people are handing over their cash, they may want more assurance than just "the word" of someone they only know via the net on where it is going...
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I'm afraid im not going through the rigmuroul and paperwork required to register as a charity / non-profit organisation, I've been self employed and I know the wanky paper work involved with that, never mind when non-profit making side comes into it, on top of that the multi-national nature of any payments would make it a logistical nightmare.I'm afraid if any such scheme goes ahead, you'll have to hand over ya money in good faith, with no written guarantees.
So far, theres not much between people who are willing to pay, and those who arent.
A lot of good questions have been brought up about the actual technicalities of doing it.
I think it may end up being too much work to be worth while.
I am still just a n00b here, but from what I have seen so far, the problem seems to have been a change from running NT to Linsux as the OS, is there no way to get NT put back on the box?
Of course, if there is more to it than that ... feel free to remind me
A lot of good questions have been brought up about the actual technicalities of doing it.
I think it may end up being too much work to be worth while.
I am still just a n00b here, but from what I have seen so far, the problem seems to have been a change from running NT to Linsux as the OS, is there no way to get NT put back on the box?
Of course, if there is more to it than that ... feel free to remind me
Of all posts Thuringwethil makes most sense IMO...
It will bring many more problems...
I'm not sure if it will be worth the hassle.
Also while paying for good servers is a good idea, what if clans who pay still have a sucky conn to those new servers?
Paying for a bad conn - bad idea
It will bring many more problems...
I'm not sure if it will be worth the hassle.
Also while paying for good servers is a good idea, what if clans who pay still have a sucky conn to those new servers?
Paying for a bad conn - bad idea
Yes Muhgi most of the problems with Server 1 specifically were due to the change from NT to linux. No way to get NT back on AFAIK, Games-World dont have licenses for it (hence its removal) and although I could easy give them one, as I found out before when I tried to get them to run a better server if I sent them the hardware, they wont do it due to legalities.
Yeah the logistics of a subscription system are going to be the main hurdle, but I seen no harm in trying a pilot scheme, if it crashes and burns so be it.
Yeah the logistics of a subscription system are going to be the main hurdle, but I seen no harm in trying a pilot scheme, if it crashes and burns so be it.
SheHe has a good point
i pay for the NRG server yet out of all the jolt servers its one of the worst for me to play on ..even jolt 3/4 are better atm and there not much cop tbh ,i put up with it and just get on with it BUT i can imagen (and rightly so) that if people are paying a subscription to the league then they will expect the servers to be of a high quality , and as jolt stand there fucking shite still at the min .also if they have paid and the servers are shit then people will expect league admins and thos involved with buying the server to spend alot more time time shouting at the server hosts at sort things out ;/
the idea is sound i just think the nitty gritty will have a shed load of problems :/
i pay for the NRG server yet out of all the jolt servers its one of the worst for me to play on ..even jolt 3/4 are better atm and there not much cop tbh ,i put up with it and just get on with it BUT i can imagen (and rightly so) that if people are paying a subscription to the league then they will expect the servers to be of a high quality , and as jolt stand there fucking shite still at the min .also if they have paid and the servers are shit then people will expect league admins and thos involved with buying the server to spend alot more time time shouting at the server hosts at sort things out ;/
the idea is sound i just think the nitty gritty will have a shed load of problems :/
Beep...
Well, it might well be wanky paperwork, BUT:
1) IF you are serious, I could probably do this sort of stuff in my own time. I'm currently training to be a solicitor anyway, so its extra practice for me
Multi-national payments aren't a problem either really...
2) As Bluey pointed out, once people are asked to hand over money, they will have expectations about your availability to sort a problem if something goes wrong, to act as a referee in cases of dispute etc etc etc etc. Do you, and the other league admins, have the time for this? Given how you're all always telling us about your irl commitments? And I imagine people's expectations will be in inverse proportion to what they contribute in terms of cash. People handing over a quid or so are likely to expect shit-hot servers, given that the current 3 are free, and still largely playable. IF they are UK based, well, hardware is cheap here, but you tend to be shafted price-wise on any kind of hosting/connection/network provision stuff in the UK, and the reason for that is most providers have sunk large amounts of capital into installing infrastructure, but haven't really thought about how to generate money from it. Lets face it, if you stripped out the p2p music "sharing" and pr0n surfing, networks everywhere would be vastly under-utilised. Although, there's a point - why not have a League Porn pay-site? People do seem willing to pay for porn, if nothing else, and that would *surely* rake in enough cash to keep the gaming side of the League nice and dandy? 
3) Suppose a parent finds their kid has been paying money to some guy(s) in another country, no matter how little, and the parents decide to kick up a fuss? Unlikely to happen, but still... Once you start taking in money, you start to be bound by legal obligations, whether you like it or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sink the idea. I'm just pointing out some of the nitty gritty stuff which could arise...
*aside to Cece: My last post made SENSE??? [what was I doing wrong?]*
Well, it might well be wanky paperwork, BUT:
1) IF you are serious, I could probably do this sort of stuff in my own time. I'm currently training to be a solicitor anyway, so its extra practice for me
Multi-national payments aren't a problem either really...2) As Bluey pointed out, once people are asked to hand over money, they will have expectations about your availability to sort a problem if something goes wrong, to act as a referee in cases of dispute etc etc etc etc. Do you, and the other league admins, have the time for this? Given how you're all always telling us about your irl commitments?
And I imagine people's expectations will be in inverse proportion to what they contribute in terms of cash. People handing over a quid or so are likely to expect shit-hot servers, given that the current 3 are free, and still largely playable. IF they are UK based, well, hardware is cheap here, but you tend to be shafted price-wise on any kind of hosting/connection/network provision stuff in the UK, and the reason for that is most providers have sunk large amounts of capital into installing infrastructure, but haven't really thought about how to generate money from it. Lets face it, if you stripped out the p2p music "sharing" and pr0n surfing, networks everywhere would be vastly under-utilised. Although, there's a point - why not have a League Porn pay-site? People do seem willing to pay for porn, if nothing else, and that would *surely* rake in enough cash to keep the gaming side of the League nice and dandy? 3) Suppose a parent finds their kid has been paying money to some guy(s) in another country, no matter how little, and the parents decide to kick up a fuss? Unlikely to happen, but still... Once you start taking in money, you start to be bound by legal obligations, whether you like it or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sink the idea. I'm just pointing out some of the nitty gritty stuff which could arise...
*aside to Cece: My last post made SENSE??? [what was I doing wrong?
]*
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The point about Kids is an important one.
In FDC, we dodged it by simply saying that Under 16s (as a reasonably standard age of majority) did not have to pay for the =[FDC]= Clan Server.
However, even with the best will in the world, pulling the payments together from Netherlands, Austria, Germany and UK cost a fecking lot in bank charges. Paypal charges a nice fat subscription also.
In the case of FDC, I ended up catching about 60% of the bill, due to having a fair number of kids, and the inevitable scumbags (you know who you are
) who agreed to pay, then skipped the damn clan inbetween me coughing up the cash and collecting the subs. we were also not clear on the issue of what happens when people join after the server was paid for...
This is something which couldn't happen in this scenario. I suspect a lot of up-front commitment would be needed, with the "what happens to the cash if it falls through" arguments..
I actually *want* this to happen, but it looks like a stupid amount of risk for the league admins to take.
In FDC, we dodged it by simply saying that Under 16s (as a reasonably standard age of majority) did not have to pay for the =[FDC]= Clan Server.
However, even with the best will in the world, pulling the payments together from Netherlands, Austria, Germany and UK cost a fecking lot in bank charges. Paypal charges a nice fat subscription also.
In the case of FDC, I ended up catching about 60% of the bill, due to having a fair number of kids, and the inevitable scumbags (you know who you are
) who agreed to pay, then skipped the damn clan inbetween me coughing up the cash and collecting the subs. we were also not clear on the issue of what happens when people join after the server was paid for...This is something which couldn't happen in this scenario. I suspect a lot of up-front commitment would be needed, with the "what happens to the cash if it falls through" arguments..
I actually *want* this to happen, but it looks like a stupid amount of risk for the league admins to take.
wintermute