Windows 7 @64 bit, UT with LCD 120 hz

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament' started by Meteor, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. Meteor

    Meteor <b>League A</b><b>dministrator</b>

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    The whole interaction between a player who sends input data to the PC with the mouse and keyboard. The PC processes the data and in the real time interoperation with online gaming and visualization over the monitor, this creates an overall ongoing feedback loop. The outcome is dissonant. This means for me, that it is not my UT99 to which I am used to. Used in the meaning, that I can play on a competitive level at least. You always recollect used top result sequences and you notice that you have a different actual reality, therefore your experience tells you all the time something is wrong. It is frustrating. As I meant before in this thread already, I will give it another try and see, if in the meantime something changed for the better. :)
     
  2. McNeill

    McNeill McMastah

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    To be honest, like OD and Meteor, for many years now, since using a 120hz monitor and upgrading to 64bit UT has not felt the same.

    It's also true that I do not care to spend hours and hours to tweak the game to try and get it feeling right again - especially in a game past it's peek.

    Of course some of us can still play reasonably well, but for those who are used to a playing at a specific level it's annoying to put up with and is really not worth the effort anymore for me.

    Tried the above suggestions and still have had no real improvement.

    Good luck to the rest of you!
     
  3. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    It sounds like the common issue is the 120hz monitor. That's hardware which wasn't even envisioned when UT was developed. Ideally you'd need like 300fps for that to be smooth. Will continue to search for a solution.
     
  4. McNeill

    McNeill McMastah

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    Ironically it was when i used crt monitor and capped with 120 i had best performance so im not so sure if 120hz is the problem. If it is perhaps only due to fact were using it on newer tft monitors etc.
     
  5. w1sh

    w1sh `//

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    http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?t=373

    I spoke to someone on that forum who helped me when I upgraded my pc and monitor (also, a guy called blz- on quakenet knows a lot about this stuff). It doesn't run as well as my old 800x600 17" on xp of course but it's playable. The ppl on that forum seem quite knowledgeable so it may be worth reading through that thread and/or asking some questions.

    I would also make sure that your playing environment is really comfortable, I used to have issues where the mouse wire really influenced how my cursor movement felt, which in turn makes you feel like the game is running crap (and that it is a hardware issue), then you start being paranoid and end up back at step 1. Different resolutions and fovs also change how the physics and game engine feel imo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  6. html

    html <B>When i grow up i wanna be like Gandalf The Grey

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    I played Kingkilla in a 1v1 last night and lost 3-2 (i died while shooting the radio with 20ish seconds left on riv3 :mad:)

    and him also complained about such problems, he said his hammerjump bind wasnt triggering properly all the time. I run an i7 processor windows 7 64 bits and I don`t have any problems with UT it feels like it has always felt more or less... maybe it`s because im a noob and don`t notice small changes in gameplay but part of me can`t help to think that its not your system, its just yourselves who are rusty because you dont play much anymore.
    It takes me a while to get back "in the zone" when i havent played ut for a while or played another game for 2 hours before playing UT... just pug up and play more, you`ll get re-used to the game... or get used to the slightly different gameplay the brain can easily adjust if you force yourself to play. tbh the changes between 30 ping and 120 ping or getting a new mouse affects UT way more than changing from CRT win xp 32 bit to LCD win 7 64 bit, from my experience anyway.
     
  7. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    First:


    Second: Nice post Wish, had read that previously but it doesn't provide a solution for all the problems sadly. UT basically seems to be "it works just fine, no problems" for a lot of people, or "I had a driver issue at first, it was easily fixed" or "Something is wrong, I cannot pinpoint or troubleshoot the issue." That article basically goes over the simple stuff and discusses driver settings which I already changed for Meteor.

    @ html: KK's hammer jump difficulties have nothing to do with it - he uses the toggle hammer which no one else uses and his problems most likely stem from his increased capacity for spelling. There is only so much information the brain is capable of storing.
     
  8. Meteor

    Meteor <b>League A</b><b>dministrator</b>

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    My old 19" crt was superb. I used it with around 135 till 144 fps. In retrospect it was maybe a mistake to give it away and buy a new 120Hz full hd LCD instead. Even so the new LCD model should be nearly as fast in the responsiveness. I was warned years ago to avoid buying a new LCD due to they were undeveloped. Sad to say, now it is years to late to compare the monitors vs each other.

    At that time my whole PC setup was completely changed all at once. I can still remember how quick my pleasure flew away, after I noticed UT99 was not the same anymore.

    I still have high hopes for Ubuntu or another Linux distribution. They might be a solution which is closer to the original operating sytem as function wise today's windows versions are.

    As a matter of fact there has to be a reason, why more players are sensitized to bold changes in their UT99 perception after PC changes were established.
     
  9. Meteor

    Meteor <b>League A</b><b>dministrator</b>

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    I did not change neither my PC mouse nor anything else. Of course 4:3 vs 16:9 is another difference where you are absolutely right.
     
  10. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    Come on IRC sometime and speak to Quasi^ - he's always ran UT on Linux :)
     
  11. Black Ninja

    Black Ninja Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. People can suggest all they want (which is nice), but there just isn't one final solution to getting it to run like it always had. It's so frustrating when you just constantly know you can do so much better, but the situation just won't let you. Specially since it isn't a problem in ANY other game, I also gave up! :(
     
  12. MeetYourMaker

    MeetYourMaker Administrator

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    The issues would be down to the monitor itself, like Mc I ran a 21" 120Hz CRT and win7 64bit and had no issues.

    When I looked at replacing it with an LCD (for space reasons) I couldn't see the point in 120Hz monitors as they were supposedly designed for 3D which I wasn't ever going to use, the 120Hz implemented so that with shutter glasses each eye could have 60Hz. Looking back I'm glad now that I didn't go down this route now and decided to choose image quality of an IPS screen over the refresh rate of a TN 3D panel although I can't really see why a 120Hz monitor of any design should have issues with any game/program.

    Are you sure your monitors run 120Hz, some of the older ones didn't do 120Hz in non 3D modes.
    Can't you just set it to run certain apps at 60Hz?
    As stated, it may just be a case of not wanting to accept the difference from changing the monitor. NOt all hardware will feel/run the same.
     
  13. Meteor

    Meteor <b>League A</b><b>dministrator</b>

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    Mine uses 120Hz. I also tried all <Hz modes below. For me is now one question highly interesting, does anyone play with a 120Hz capable LCD monitor problem free UT99? Incase not, we have a problem clue found.
     
  14. twnZ

    twnZ .

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    I played my best UT when I had a crt. When I started playing on my new monitor I couldn't get the feel of my UT working to my satisfactory at all. It came to the point where I was changing cross-hair colors and so on thinking that would make a difference! As Mc and BN said; you can play alright, but knowing it's nowhere near how you should be playing is frustrating. I ended up doing a little tweaking and dealing with it. :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  15. Champ`

    Champ` The Champ is here!!

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    just fired up UT for my 2 pence worth , i never play any more and i reinstalled UT back when seas was on his mission thingy a few months ago which never happened lol, and my UT feels just as perfect as it did back in the day 10 years ago to be honest. I have a crappy old 75htz monitor and not checked my video card drivers or checked my settings at all so maybe smant is onto something about the monitor problem and refresh/ frame rates.

    Just my 2 pence as im not very knowledgeable on settings in UT i only know basic stuff.

    edit: also i have 64 bit windows 7 and just copied the whole UT folder from an old HD i found
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  16. Black Ninja

    Black Ninja Well-Known Member

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    I just know that when I got my 120hz LCD it was such an improvement, I was sniping like a beast! Then a year after that I installed Win 7 64bit (with same UT install / all mouse settings backed up etc) and UT has never felt the same again.
     
  17. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    I feel like this is where 80% of the problems come from. Win7 doesn't seem to like people just copying it over. Are you running the program as an administrator with compatibility mode for xp?
     
  18. Quasi^

    Quasi^ Me.

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    @Meteor, I would say don't install it in wine. It runs much much better with the native linux installer. There a few things to look out for though. It does tend to block anything else from using the sound card unless you run it with the alsa 'aoss' wrapper. UT on linux is pretty old and doesn't support any of the newer sound drivers. This is a problem with TS, which I still need to get working again. I'll show you how to edit the startup file for aoss once you have it installed. The key names are also a bit weird and don't always match the names on the keys themselves, but you should be able to set those up without a problem.

    This is my installer which is a rewrite of the original Loki installer, but with support for 64bit (provided you have 32bit compat libs installed) and a cache converter script, which runs whenever you start UT. Instructions at the end of this post:

    http://www.unrealize.co.uk/files/ut-436-GOTY-installer.tar.gz

    It also fixes a bug in the original installer which didn't decompress the map files.

    You need to untar the installer tarball, edit and run the installer script in a terminal. Don't double click it the file manager as you need to edit the locations at the top of the script to point to where your CD drive/ISO is and also where you want it installed. Do this as normal user, not root. There is a desktop file so it should give you a menu item.

    Start up a terminal and cd to where you saved the tarball.
    Untar the tarball:
    tar xvf ut-436-GOTY-installer.tar.gz
    That will give you a directory named ut-436-GOTY
    cd ut-436-GOTY
    Edit ut99install.sh with the appropriate locations:
    Code:
    # Where the install CD/ISO/FOLDER is located:
    CD_PATH=/mnt/cd/dvd
    
    # Where to place the link to start UT. Should be in your PATH:
    LINK_PATH=$HOME/bin
    
    # Where to install the game files:
    UT_PATH=$HOME/ut99
    You will need to create bin/ in your $HOME if you don't have it:
    mkdir ~/bin
    It also needs to be in your $PATH unless you intend to make a menu item in gnome for it.

    Next:
    Edit and check the location in ut99cache.sh:
    Code:
    # Need to change the following line:
    utdir=$HOME/ut99 # change it to your UT install dir
    
    That is all the setting up you need.

    Next:
    ./ut99install.sh

    It will run and copy all the correct files over. To test UT out:
    cd ~/bin
    ./ut
    (if $HOME/bin is where you changed LINK_PATH to.)

    There are a few things in ~/.loki/ut/System/UnrealTournament.ini that are different to the Windows version: Video driver can be SDL or OpenGL. You need to try both to see which works best for you. Audio driver can be GenericAudioSubsystem or ALAudioSubsystem. Generic sounds worse IMO but it could be a good fallback if AL isn't working right.

    I'm usually idling in #utassault if you need some help with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  19. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    Twnz, as explained by wish's link, ut was designed for crt. A crt monitor has a different ratio to modern widescreen lcds, so you get a bunch of funny looking issues with that and it can be an adjustment to make by messing around with fov and resolutions and even (to a lesser extent in this situation) framerates.

    UT is very framerate-dependent, single player can run in frame-based mode rather than time-based, and things like dodging and going through portals can be bugged hard depending on your framerate. While this is by no means an end-all for every problem, one will generally find some weird issues when dealing with "ut doesn't feel proper" complaints.

    I am playing UT in 1920x1080 on a 46" screen, hi res textures and win7 pro x64 and while I initially had problems (as have many of my friends) I've gotten it to run smoothly and beautifully without much hassle and I'm fairly convinced any machine can run it properly.
     
  20. endgegner

    endgegner The Saviour of UTA. Worship me as DJ worships sofa

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    BTW, I assume you've all checked your power settings?
     
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