Victimless crimes..

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Lex_Mortis

Lex_Mortis

Not here
Sep 2, 2002
7,685
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The Netherlands
Are they really crimes or just a way to control the people?
Nobody is hurt or harmed, yet its illegal..

A few things which would fall into 'victimless crimes' category:
- Drug prohibition
- Seat belt laws
- Clothing restrictions in schools
- Prostitution prohibition
- Abortion restrictions (some religions believe there is a victim)
- Opening times of stores

Laws against those things are imo very bad, its just controlling the people. Not to mention a nice steady cash-flow towards the government. But I wonder if the cash really makes up for the other side of it, like prison costs. In NL we have a prison shortage but if you remove all those victimless crimes laws and release those people from prison, im sure the shortage would be gone. Not to mention all the costs to run those prisons.

What do you guys think, are these laws really needed?
 
Re:

Drugs can cause harm some people cannot control themselves, otherwise why would people OD
Seat belts save lives, stupid point you made
Clothing restrictions are up tp the school in this country, so its not a law
Prostitution is a difficult one, its up to the woman to sell her body i suppose, but i think people are driven to it by circumstance
Abortions have a limit in this country of a certain number of weeks, this can be viewed as the distinction of when the pheotus becomes a baby, or if the baby is seriously malformed.
Opening times of stores, there shouldnt be a law against these times.
 
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Drugs: Heroin is highly addictive and causes/ perpetuates crime. Hash just makes people boring and encourages them to stay in their house watching Spaced or playing Nintendo (UT in Aj's case). In the first case I think it's fair to say that there are plenty of victims from one end of the ladder to the other. In the second the only victims are us monkeys having to listen to Aj on Ventrilo go on and on and on about whatever the hell he's talking about.


:caek:
 
Seat belts... lol, you must be really pissed about having to wear one then, they do save lives :rolleyes:

And none of the "crimes" posted will lead to a long time in prison I guess (not in holland at least) so it has f*ck all to do with the prison shortage, imho.
And there is a point to "controlling the people" aswell, unless you want to live in a world of total anarchy there will have to be some laws, and you won't like all of them, of course.
 
Very few of the things you mention result in a prison sentence (at least in the UK) they may end up with a fine, and some have to go through the court service, but not a prison sentence.

Drugs laws are difficult, and probably have had a thread on their own.

Seat belts - some people dislike seatbelts because they feel trapped inside the car and would rather go through the wind screen than risk being in a burning car as a result of an accident. However, seatbelts result in broken collar bones, rib bones and whiplash. Going through a windscreen results in much higher injury and death rates and risks other people's injury and death. The UK have spent a fair bit of cash to make sure we are all aware that people in the back seat who do not wear seatbelts often kill or at least increase the injuries of those in the seat in front. Its one thing to not wear a seatbelt because you are hard, dont care, or are scared of dying in a burning car. Its another to say you wouldnt care about injuring or killing the person sitting in front of you.

Clothing restrictions in schools - the US dont particularly have school uniforms, big debates about it, does it protect the children, does it remove an avenue for bullying. Personally, I wore a school uniform and the big arguement about it removing individuality is bollox. There is a huge amount you can do within the restrictions. But it doesnt result in a jail term. A punishment excerise, or suspension, but no jail term.

Prostitution - I think the laws are there to protect and prevent the smacked up crack whore forced to go into this seedy industry by her violent boyfriend to get him money. Which is only one part of the deal. I dont see there being a problem if a woman (or man) wants to sell sex I dont see why the state should interfere. I do think there should be restrictions - mandatory blood tests and inspections for example. Sex is evil needs to be removed from the populations minds before this can happen though :\

Abortion - not much goes on about jailing because of abortion here. You have till 24 weeks (I think) to terminate a pregnancy, you really should have done so by then. There arent really many people (That I have heard of) who would perform an abortion after that. Its a tough one ...

Opening Times of Stores - not a great problem in Scotland, as far as I am aware, there used to be a problem in England with Sunday shopping, but that has been dropped in the past few years.


There arent that many things I can think of off the top of my head that result in a jail term without reason. Possibly nonpayment of fines. Or TV licence. Thur should have a list
 
bah if i didnt ramble on ventrilo no one else would ever say anything !

as for victimless crimes, are they any that really count ? as for another silly crime...it used to a crime to sell fish and chips ona sunday. dunno if this still the case though.
 
I honestly think if you went far enough with a debate you would probably find there is no such thing as a victimless crime.

Someone, somewhere would always be the victim, in the terms that they wouild suffer or loss from the said crime having been committed.
 
Drugs is illegal due to health hazards, what about smoking then? Thats a 100% hazard, not only for the person who smokes but also for the people around them. Why isnt that made illegal than? Taxes.
Drugs -> OD, what about the people who drink too much and end up in the hospital? Why isnt that made illegal than? Taxes.
So when there are taxes involved adults are smart enough to look out after their health.
About the seatbelts, adults are smart enough to understand the importance of the belts. I dont see why it has to be a law.
About the opening times of the stores, im not just talking about sundays. About any time/day, including nights. Either its illegal to have a supermarket open at night or you need a permit. Why the fuck do you need a piece of paper to have your store open after 21:00?

Those few things I said were only an example of victimless crimes, im more talking about that entire group, not single "crimes"...
 
Lex_Mortis said:
About the seatbelts, adults are smart enough to understand the importance of the belts. I dont see why it has to be a law.
QUOTE]


America doesnt have a law for seat belt wearing their death rate in car accidents is higher than any where to which it can be compared.

People can over do alcohol and other legal drugs but in the main these are less dangerous than the illegal ones such as heroine, im all for legalising marjuana and sticking a massive tax on it too.
Click to expand...
 
Andy said:
America doesnt have a law for seat belt wearing their death rate in car accidents is higher than any where to which it can be compared.
Click to expand...
Americans arent known for their intelligence, I just say thats "Evolution in action" :mischief:

Andy said:
People can over do alcohol and other legal drugs but in the main these are less dangerous than the illegal ones such as heroine, im all for legalising marjuana and sticking a massive tax on it too.
Click to expand...
So because the risk is lower, its an accept risk.
Can you explain smoking and lungcancer then? Lungcancer is an accepted risk? (Also for the people around the smokers)
 
Re:

You cross the road you risk being run over, you breath in more chemicals than you care to know about, you eat more chemicals than you care to know about, people take risks everyday in their jobs home lives even their sex live ;) You don't have to smoke just like you do not have to take illegal drugs. If heroine was legal do you think as many people would take it as smoke? or drink?

As for saying americans are thick, that is not a valid argument. The fact you made this statement does infact backup the need for a law.
 
Andy said:
As for saying americans are thick, that is not a valid argument. The fact you made this statement does infact backup the need for a law.
Click to expand...

<xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
 
FYI America doesn't have a national seatbelt law.

However, when in America on honeymoon, Vanessa and I were in a cab/taxi in three separate states, namely Virginia, Washington D.C. and Hawai'i.

All of which required us to wear our seatbelts, and there were notices within the taxi to that effect, saying it was against state law to not wear one.
 
Lex_Mortis said:
About the opening times of the stores, im not just talking about sundays. About any time/day, including nights. Either its illegal to have a supermarket open at night or you need a permit. Why the fuck do you need a piece of paper to have your store open after 21:00?

Those few things I said were only an example of victimless crimes, im more talking about that entire group, not single "crimes"...
Click to expand...
Well afaik these laws are to prevent a disturbing atmosphere during night or in some countries sort of (christian) "tradition" where it's prohibited to open a shop sunday etc.
 
funny thing, i thought about the seatbelt law sometime ago although i didn't see this thread

the thing is, you don't harm any people by not wearing a seatbelt apart from yourself (atleast if you sit in the front of the car as mughi pointed out), so why is there a law? sofar i've understood laws to be things that prevent people from harming other people, what they do with themself should be their problem imho
 
well tbh i see this a bit different:
certainly the safty belt minimizes risk of being hurt in an accident or so...
but imo it also ensures that u stay on ur seat so that u re in full//better control of ur vehicle - and this might be decisive if a 3rd person survives or not
 
Someone dig up on what basis the seatbelt law was made. pointless to disguss without knowing that first ;)
 
xb7 said:
funny thing, i thought about the seatbelt law sometime ago although i didn't see this thread

the thing is, you don't harm any people by not wearing a seatbelt apart from yourself (atleast if you sit in the front of the car as mughi pointed out), so why is there a law? sofar i've understood laws to be things that prevent people from harming other people, what they do with themself should be their problem imho
Click to expand...

if you don't wear a seatbelt in the back you can kill the person sitting infront of u... if you don't wear one in the front then some emergency service person will be scraping you up off a pavement. Also, you've contributed to your own death, so will reduce any sort of compensation payments/insurance for your dependents.
 
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