The Moscow theatre that was held by Chechen rebels
- Thread starter MrMerc
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Personally, I don't think there is any right or wrong way to approach a hostage rescue situation. You simply never can tell what kind of people you are dealing with.
You can try the softly softly approach, and still end up with lots of dead hostages because the captors were simply waiting until they had enough media coverage before making their "symbolic gesture".
Although I'd imagine that simply charging in with all guns blazing is most likely to end in lots of dead hostages.
You can try the softly softly approach, and still end up with lots of dead hostages because the captors were simply waiting until they had enough media coverage before making their "symbolic gesture".
Although I'd imagine that simply charging in with all guns blazing is most likely to end in lots of dead hostages.
I think the Russians had to rescue the hostages........90 hostages died but 830 were saved. Would be more dangerous if they would have blew up the theatre up.
But i don't see the point of the occupation of Chechnya. It's not a rich land and not important for the Russians in any way. Maybe the Russians don't want to leave Chechnya because they see it as a sign of weakness.
My English suggs
But i don't see the point of the occupation of Chechnya. It's not a rich land and not important for the Russians in any way. Maybe the Russians don't want to leave Chechnya because they see it as a sign of weakness.
My English suggs
RE:
aye it does sugg
I don't think they needed to use BZ gas tho, if you've seen what that shit does you will know why.
aye it does sugg
I don't think they needed to use BZ gas tho, if you've seen what that shit does you will know why.
"BZ gas" thats speculation afaik. the russians havent said what gas it is, cept that it is a hospital gas. I doubt it is a hospital gas though. most likely its some coldwar thing.Or they would have just said so at the start ..
BZ gas is known as pshocochemical gas used in combat and its well known in the army around the world. It causes massive disoriantation and confusion and some physical effects. thing is bz gas is a LSD weapon and not a knockout gass.1 of the points being that confused soldiers on bad trips is just as dangerous to their own ppl as teh nme. and u dont want 50 chechyan rebels with tnt on bad trips do u?
BZ gas is known as pshocochemical gas used in combat and its well known in the army around the world. It causes massive disoriantation and confusion and some physical effects. thing is bz gas is a LSD weapon and not a knockout gass.1 of the points being that confused soldiers on bad trips is just as dangerous to their own ppl as teh nme. and u dont want 50 chechyan rebels with tnt on bad trips do u?
all the russian gov has said about the gas is
"dont let them sleep and give them lots of milk"
anyone how has a knowledge of bio chemical weapons might know what gas that points to, but as far as BBC news is concerned non of there experts were willing to say
the issue of chechnya indipendence is a very difficult one and it involves looking at other wars in the baltics and elsewere to give a ballanced view.
"dont let them sleep and give them lots of milk"
anyone how has a knowledge of bio chemical weapons might know what gas that points to, but as far as BBC news is concerned non of there experts were willing to say
the issue of chechnya indipendence is a very difficult one and it involves looking at other wars in the baltics and elsewere to give a ballanced view.
The Russians had to gas them, if you look at how the rebels had the explosives wired, a fast acting gas was the only way to take them out with the least civie casualties.
it was an anesthetic ffs i had the name inmy head GRRRR it was just on the news 
ffs
/me stops smoking weed ffs
ffs
/me stops smoking weed ffs
I've not really got anything to comment on regarding Russia leaving Chechnya - as I simply don't know enough about the situation. Some people say to compare it to N.Ireland, but I don't think I'll go there 
As for the gassing of the building. It was the best solution from a bunch a bad choices.
No situation like that would ever end smoothly. You simply need to sit back logically and think about it - 120 hostages vs 900 hostages.
I know that that is a little comfort to the family's of the 120 but shit happens.
The only other real options would have been to send special forces soliders, or to send in a slow effect knock-out gas so that the terroists fell asleep. However, you can't be certain that all the terriost's would fall asleep at the same time and no government in the world would send there elite (takes years to train) solider's into a building that would explode a few moment after a shot was fired (oh and silenced weapons do make a noise - just not a very loud one).
No good can come from a situ like that - it was the only available option.
As for the gassing of the building. It was the best solution from a bunch a bad choices.
No situation like that would ever end smoothly. You simply need to sit back logically and think about it - 120 hostages vs 900 hostages.
I know that that is a little comfort to the family's of the 120 but shit happens.
The only other real options would have been to send special forces soliders, or to send in a slow effect knock-out gas so that the terroists fell asleep. However, you can't be certain that all the terriost's would fall asleep at the same time and no government in the world would send there elite (takes years to train) solider's into a building that would explode a few moment after a shot was fired (oh and silenced weapons do make a noise - just not a very loud one).
No good can come from a situ like that - it was the only available option.
120 hostages dying instead of 900. sounds good.
but if they pumped 1 cm³ brain into their head before pumping 1 liter gas per m³ in the theatre, they probably could have saved more...
but if they pumped 1 cm³ brain into their head before pumping 1 liter gas per m³ in the theatre, they probably could have saved more...
"In my opinion": I think people are being far too critical. I think the authorities made the right decision, bearing in mind they had to react very quickly.
Storming the place would have been disasterous, even the sharpest shooters in the world would have a hard time getting their targets quickly and accurately in a paniced mass of hundreds of people. The terrorists would have too much time then and could have started spraying bullets or grenades....how may would have died then?!
Also the use of a less potent gas would have the same drawback, the terrorists would have more time to react.
The SAS and the russian equivalents are highly trained professionals, but what did the ignorant think? That they could go in to a darkened room with hundreds of people, with all guns blazing and get all the "baddies", with no innocent casualties? I dont think so!
Storming the place would have been disasterous, even the sharpest shooters in the world would have a hard time getting their targets quickly and accurately in a paniced mass of hundreds of people. The terrorists would have too much time then and could have started spraying bullets or grenades....how may would have died then?!
Also the use of a less potent gas would have the same drawback, the terrorists would have more time to react.
The SAS and the russian equivalents are highly trained professionals, but what did the ignorant think? That they could go in to a darkened room with hundreds of people, with all guns blazing and get all the "baddies", with no innocent casualties? I dont think so!
I agree foxy, 900 hostages in a building loaded with explosives - the way I would approach the situation would be to write it off - i.e. consider the fact that they could have already blown the building up within a few seconds of taking it siege. As Iceman said, 120 dying instead of 900 is good, if not the ideal solution. It certainly isn't good that anyone dies, but like I said, if you are optimistic about the whole situation, saving 780 people from almost certain death is something to be proud about.
Storming the building without the gas would certainly be a bad thing - and I would suspect that it would only take 1 of the many bombs to detonate to cause a chain reaction and result in the whole theatre and all the hostages going up in a mushroom cloud.
Storming the building without the gas would certainly be a bad thing - and I would suspect that it would only take 1 of the many bombs to detonate to cause a chain reaction and result in the whole theatre and all the hostages going up in a mushroom cloud.
I am not saying that what they done was bad.
they picked the best solution that they had at the moment.
I am a bit more surprised by the fact that many of those 120 could have survived if medical personel were informed and on standby with counter measures for the gas.
they picked the best solution that they had at the moment.
I am a bit more surprised by the fact that many of those 120 could have survived if medical personel were informed and on standby with counter measures for the gas.