would be fascinated to hear the views of some of the 'power posters' on here with regard to the demise of dr. kelly..
have to say i dont know what to think myself....
have to say i dont know what to think myself....
recent uk events
- Thread starter grizz
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dont think he killed himself. UK government is shit and they know it, now they gotta clean the mess
Not really been keeping up on the story tbh. Just saw the precis in the Sunday papers, and to me the poor guy looks like he got set up to take the fall to save a lot of red faces higher up.
Whether it was suicide or not is unclear yet. It looks like suicide, but anything is possible, especially in the current climate where a government has basically been accused of waging an illegal war and is desperately trying to seek retrospective justification etc for it.
It also, to me, shows that it is quite simply WRONG for unelected civil servants and "political advisers" be be wielding the amount of power they currently are.
Its stuff like this, added to the proposed introduction of ID cards, the abolition of jury trials & the right to silence, the abolition of the house of lords as an effective check on the executive and the proposed measures to exempt the government from Judicial Review which simply further convinces me that the UK under Labour is becoming a very dangerous place for innocent people to live.
Be interesting to see what the inquiry turns up with.
PS - loved the British reporter who heckled the PM at that Japanese conference with "Have you got blood on your hands Prime Minister?" The PM's response to that speaks volumes IMHO...
Whether it was suicide or not is unclear yet. It looks like suicide, but anything is possible, especially in the current climate where a government has basically been accused of waging an illegal war and is desperately trying to seek retrospective justification etc for it.
It also, to me, shows that it is quite simply WRONG for unelected civil servants and "political advisers" be be wielding the amount of power they currently are.
Its stuff like this, added to the proposed introduction of ID cards, the abolition of jury trials & the right to silence, the abolition of the house of lords as an effective check on the executive and the proposed measures to exempt the government from Judicial Review which simply further convinces me that the UK under Labour is becoming a very dangerous place for innocent people to live.
Be interesting to see what the inquiry turns up with.
PS - loved the British reporter who heckled the PM at that Japanese conference with "Have you got blood on your hands Prime Minister?" The PM's response to that speaks volumes IMHO...
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I could write something but was listening 2 this as i read the post and thought it was as apt 2 the uk as 2 the usa
NOFX LYRICS
"Idiots Are Taking Over"
it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?
Mensa membership exceeding
tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
the industrial revolution
has flipped the bitch on evolution
the benevolent and wise are being cornered, ostracized, what a bummer
the world keeps getting dumber
insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason
darwin's rollin over in his coffin
the fittest are surviving much less often
now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston
stranded on a primate planet
apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
with generals and the armies that obeyed them
followers following fables
philosophies that enable them to rule without regard
there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
what are we left with?
a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
pass on traditions
how to get ahead religions
And prosperity be a symbol to culture
the idiots are takin over
NOFX LYRICS
"Idiots Are Taking Over"
it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?
Mensa membership exceeding
tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
the industrial revolution
has flipped the bitch on evolution
the benevolent and wise are being cornered, ostracized, what a bummer
the world keeps getting dumber
insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason
darwin's rollin over in his coffin
the fittest are surviving much less often
now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston
stranded on a primate planet
apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
with generals and the armies that obeyed them
followers following fables
philosophies that enable them to rule without regard
there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
what are we left with?
a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
pass on traditions
how to get ahead religions
And prosperity be a symbol to culture
the idiots are takin over
well i for 1, dont think he commited suicide. If i think he was murdered to clean up for the govt.
It certainly looks like suicide, but then of course you could have the view of 'the more it looks like suicide, the less likely it actually is'. The guy was found with a knife and a bottle of pain killers next to him, and a slit wrist. How easy would that be to set up if you wanted to fake a suicide...
But then you have to look at the governments reasons to have him taken out too - actually doing so would be a huge risk for them, and with his name already in the public arena any suspicion would immediately be aimed at the governement regardless of their level of guilt, which means they would have to be very desperate to get rid of him and try to pass off that suspicion.
But then why would they be so desperate? He has already done the damage, already given his information to the press, so taking him out isn't going to serve as anything more than a means of punishment from the government (and a warning to others I guess). Unless, of course, there is more information he had access to that hasn't come to light yet, which they are trying to hide...
Personally I don't know what to think. Logic tells me he probably topped himself to get away from the pressure, and that it is just too far-fetched and conspiracy theorist to believe the government had him taken out. But then there is a nagging doubt fueled by the knowledge that our labour government, who are desperate to avoid any further scandle and to stay in power, probably could be stupid enough to actually try something like that, and his untimely demise is just far to convenient for them to be mere coincidence...
But then you have to look at the governments reasons to have him taken out too - actually doing so would be a huge risk for them, and with his name already in the public arena any suspicion would immediately be aimed at the governement regardless of their level of guilt, which means they would have to be very desperate to get rid of him and try to pass off that suspicion.
But then why would they be so desperate? He has already done the damage, already given his information to the press, so taking him out isn't going to serve as anything more than a means of punishment from the government (and a warning to others I guess). Unless, of course, there is more information he had access to that hasn't come to light yet, which they are trying to hide...
Personally I don't know what to think. Logic tells me he probably topped himself to get away from the pressure, and that it is just too far-fetched and conspiracy theorist to believe the government had him taken out. But then there is a nagging doubt fueled by the knowledge that our labour government, who are desperate to avoid any further scandle and to stay in power, probably could be stupid enough to actually try something like that, and his untimely demise is just far to convenient for them to be mere coincidence...
RaMpaGe said:
They can find out to a certain extent, but then if you had a prior knowledge of the methods of telling if it was suicide or not you could fake it in a manor that would look like it genuinely was. Also I don't think the government would actually hire someone to do it, if at all it would of been done by someone already under their employ.
And finally, you have to have to consider whether Blair would actually know about something like this at all, or whether the decision would be made to keep him in the dark. I mean, we all know that in these times the PM / President is nothing but a salesman for the political party, and the answers to all the important decisions are handed to them on a plate to read out...
hmmm well lets see
if the information he leaked to the press was true and in fact the government did lie to get us to go to war with iraq, he could be charged with treason which is one of the few crimes which still carries the death penalty in the uk,i might be wrong...(long time since i studied law)
of course then the government would have to admit they lied
which is pretty treasonous in itself
but again maybe he was right to leak it to the press even if it was maybe unlawful
it really is one big mess
i dont think it was suicide myself,but like the theories about mi6 bumping off princess diana, i doubt we will ever know the truth
if the information he leaked to the press was true and in fact the government did lie to get us to go to war with iraq, he could be charged with treason which is one of the few crimes which still carries the death penalty in the uk,i might be wrong...(long time since i studied law)
of course then the government would have to admit they lied
which is pretty treasonous in itself
but again maybe he was right to leak it to the press even if it was maybe unlawful
it really is one big mess
i dont think it was suicide myself,but like the theories about mi6 bumping off princess diana, i doubt we will ever know the truth
I thikn that if Mi5 wanted it to look like a suicide it would look like a suicide..
Dunno if he did or not, impossible to tell. IMO i bet the inquiry will show nothing, liek they usualy do.
seen this kinda thing before, man cought in media blabla..suicides.Personaly i cant c what type of reason ie something said about him or his credibility ferinstance would make 1 kill 1 self.
Dunno if he did or not, impossible to tell. IMO i bet the inquiry will show nothing, liek they usualy do.
seen this kinda thing before, man cought in media blabla..suicides.Personaly i cant c what type of reason ie something said about him or his credibility ferinstance would make 1 kill 1 self.
slimshady said:
The crime used to be "Arson in her Majesties Shipyards". Don't quote me on it, but I dont think the UK has the death penalty for anything any more - it being banned by things like the European Convention on Human Rights, which the UK incorporated into UK law with the Human Rights Act 1998.
Given this, I don't honestly see how someone could go and top themselves over something like this - I mean, if his name had been released anyway, surely the weight of public opinion on his side would have helped protect him?
To me, a more likely explanation for his "suicide" is that he was driven to it by relentless threats against him, or more likely, his family if he talked any more. Especially if those threats included removal of pension rights, or having some "black mark" against his wife/kids...
As to reasons why he might have been "bumped off", well, there are a few. Suppose he had, or had access to information showing that Iraq did not in fact pose any threat to anyone but its own citizens. No matter that the Iraqi people might have wanted to be liberated, you then have a very sticky situation, where the UK/USA may in fact have waged an illegal war. Which, possibly, means that there is the risk of UK/USA leaders/governments being indicted on war criminal charges.
Bit too much like conspiracy theory? Maybe. But its certainly a possibility...
: x-files music :
I love a good conspiracy :cool:
Two options (with the entertainment of conspiracy theories behind them) :
1) He killed himself
2) The government arranged for him to be killed
Option 1 is possible as he was under a lot of pressure with the recent goings-on, however, it is a rather extreme and sudden decision to take. I am sure lots of suicide attempts are sudden decisions, but they would tend to be more appropriate methods picked ... for example, rope round your neck, or ODing on paracetamol (and then dying days later when you have had time to reconsider but its too late as you have damaged your liver beyond repair), or slitting wrists and then sitting in the bath. Not going for a walk and slitting your wrist outside, it just doesnt seem right.
Option 2 is a bit far fetched as it doesnt really misdirect the public away from the issue, it doesnt stop any more info coming out, the only possibility then is some sort of mad retribution. Or someone said the wrong thing to the wrong person and it was misinterpreted as an order rather than a rant. "Things would be a lot easier if he was just found dead" The "suicide" then could be him threatened to carry out the actions or his family would be in danger. But then there would be signs of struggle etc ...
Personally, I dont know, I do find it bizarre to think that this man who seemed to be able to cope would suddenly leave his family without any suggestion of something about to happen. On the other hand, I dont see how this could possible help out the government. I just love a good conspiracy
..... hmmm .... maybe it was an ill-thought out plan by the opposition to bring the government into further disrepute :cool:
Or aliens, there is always room for aliens in a conspiracy
Two options (with the entertainment of conspiracy theories behind them) :
1) He killed himself
2) The government arranged for him to be killed
Option 1 is possible as he was under a lot of pressure with the recent goings-on, however, it is a rather extreme and sudden decision to take. I am sure lots of suicide attempts are sudden decisions, but they would tend to be more appropriate methods picked ... for example, rope round your neck, or ODing on paracetamol (and then dying days later when you have had time to reconsider but its too late as you have damaged your liver beyond repair), or slitting wrists and then sitting in the bath. Not going for a walk and slitting your wrist outside, it just doesnt seem right.
Option 2 is a bit far fetched as it doesnt really misdirect the public away from the issue, it doesnt stop any more info coming out, the only possibility then is some sort of mad retribution. Or someone said the wrong thing to the wrong person and it was misinterpreted as an order rather than a rant. "Things would be a lot easier if he was just found dead" The "suicide" then could be him threatened to carry out the actions or his family would be in danger. But then there would be signs of struggle etc ...
Personally, I dont know, I do find it bizarre to think that this man who seemed to be able to cope would suddenly leave his family without any suggestion of something about to happen. On the other hand, I dont see how this could possible help out the government. I just love a good conspiracy
..... hmmm .... maybe it was an ill-thought out plan by the opposition to bring the government into further disrepute :cool:
Or aliens, there is always room for aliens in a conspiracy
Im inclined to think he could have killed himself, after the sudden exposure on TV, the humiliation of being interrogated by an inquiry in front of millions, knowing that the truth would come out sooner or later about his chat with the BBC reporter however much they exaggerated things (and we know what dogs journalists are for making nice scandals)
Why in the woods? Maybe to save his family the extra pain of finding his body. Makes sense.
Why in the woods? Maybe to save his family the extra pain of finding his body. Makes sense.
y no goodbye letter to say his family goodbye or to admit the charges against him so his family so his family wont be bothered by an investigation and the cops asking questions about the last days of his life?
Well if it was suicide, people in a desparate mood probably arnt in the right frame of mind to think logically about stuff like that I guess. Just looking for a way to end it all.
One thing I would like to know why some Lord Ponceworthy is doing the investigation into this goverment crisis. Why not a big squad of CID or police officers to find the real cause of death and evidence to support the conclusion.
I know the police may be bribed or their judgement clouded by people higher up the food chain, but resting this whole thing on 1 guy who (probably) 99% of the population do not know is wrong imo.
I know the police may be bribed or their judgement clouded by people higher up the food chain, but resting this whole thing on 1 guy who (probably) 99% of the population do not know is wrong imo.
«)Fîrë$±ørm(» said:
In theory yes. But it is also 1 mans judgement instead of 100's. This guy is also a Lord, which doesn't mean fuck all. Theres 1 Lord here who has been released from prison today, and gets his Lord status back too it seems.
Makes covering up cases like this exceptionaly easy, if the police are not involved. I am sure he has people working for him, but I just cannot see how or why someone apart from the police should be given this responsibility when we already have the Police and dedicated units serving this purpose, who are (IMO) less prone to lies than 1 fat cat dislocated from the real world.