Prejudgement in UTA?

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Alfie

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Feb 26, 2006
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We don't have any power there since it's McNeil's server and channels afaik.
Imho it's not our problem.
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I didnt think anyone would get banned usually unless it was in public UTA irc channels, league server/match or involved an admin.
Surely this case would be down to Mc and however he wants to deal with it as it was his server.
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This thread is not aimed to cause a flamewar but to discuss what I consider an important matter in a mature way. Please don't post if you came here to insult. All I want is a reasoned answer as racism is an issue that concerns me specially. So please clarify the following point to me.

According to the quote above, if an admin gets racist remarks in a public UT server or any other resource even outside UTA's jurisdiction, action can be taken. But if it was a common member then there is nothing they can do because "It's not their problem" ?

This is how the community deals with racism?
How unfortunate words, whoever they come from. Just as unfortunate as it was quoting them in a public forum.

Looking at certain comments made it's painfully obvious that the reputation of the persons involved in this argument is playing a big role in the admins decision, which is, again, very unfortunate.




Maybe, only maybe, I got it wrong. I wish this was the case and you could come to me with a logical explanation as to why admins are protected anywhere from such a serious threat for our society like any racism germ represents, however the rest of the community members are not, even if it happened in a well known meeting place with many witnesses. The lack of "powers" is clearly an excuse made up to justify a decision based in individual reputation.

Please explain to me how having admin rights on a server affects your ability to read what is being said.

Thanks.




*** P.D: I was told to post this issue "where appropiate". I assume he meant this forum, not chit chat. My apologies Crackking.
 
from the same post
I've never seen a single comment by DJ that was racist, I've never had it reported to me by either a league admin nor a user on IRC, forum member, etc. So there isn't much I can do about it.
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As a server admin you can look at the logs and verify that the allegations are true. It was stated that Martz did not see DJ say anything (in the same post you quoted from), probably because he doesnt play on that server. The only way to verify that he made comments would be to look at server logs, which requires a server admin. Im sure you wouldnt like it if someone accused you of being racist on a server, and getting banned from the whole UTA when you hadnt done anything.

If he was banned without evidence everyone would be complaining that admins were biased against him etc, just like people are complaining about IBM being banned, and in that case there is evidence (reading from Martz`s post).
 
I've never seen a single comment by DJ that was racist, I've never had it reported to me by either a league admin nor a user on IRC, forum member, etc. So there isn't much I can do about it.
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So the problem is that the issue was not "reported" ?... :|
It has been reported a dozen of times via forum threads and PMs to admins.
Everyone knows it's true. The author never denied it either. It would be quite pointless to do as there were so many witnesses in game.

But then we have to consider the credibility, in the lack of first hand server logs.
Isn't an admins word enough? According to Martz's quote, it should be. Ok, here is it:

First of all it was on pug server (yes i was there playing then).
Second .... don't remember who started but both of them were acting like a cockheads flaming and insulting eachother almost all the time.
We don't have any power there since it's McNeil's server and channels afaik.
Imho it's not our problem.
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This is apparently taken from the admin discussion about the matter. If an admin was in the game but didn't see any racist comment, that would be his main argument don't you think? I was there, saw nothing, case closed.
Instead, the quote implies very clearly that the subject of the discussion, this is, the racist comments, actually happened, but admins won't take action because "it's not their problem".

The admins clearly know it actually happened, yet they keep ignoring it and making up bad excuses :|



Good effort in your reply, but I'm afraid it's just another poor excuse.
 
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:clap: whoever you are 0_o.
You have told my thoughts exactly.
There is ALOT of biased admins in this league...alot
My complaint about DJ has nothing at all to do with IBM being banned, Martz, since you seem to think it is.
DJ was racist to m1c on a "UTA" pug, and AnTi says its "none of their buisness"
m1c was racist to AnTi on a quakenet irc server, yet AnTi bans him for 2months.
Didn't know quakenet had something to do with UTA, but then again you learn new things everyday.
 
That's bollox indeed rai. Weird thing is, i thought it was you posting through alfie :scared: Maybe AnTi banned him, because... he has the power to do so. Personal attack, revenge, ban. Anyway, i don't know, i guess the whole adminteam supports the ban and maybe it hasnt got anything to do with the qnet issue.
 
Try being a german and you get judged even faster :P UTA and admins abusing their power goes hand in hand, better get used to it.
 
According to the quote above, if an admin gets racist remarks in a public UT server or any other resource even outside UTA's jurisdiction, action can be taken. But if it was a common member then there is nothing they can do because "It's not their problem" ?
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What a load of shit, you've just made up your own theory which isn't based on the above quote whatsoever.

Heres what happens - if someone complains to me about someone being racist/abusive/nasty I will take a look at IRC or the forums (the only 2 mediums I administrate), see if its true, and take action against them. It's always been that way.

What I don't do, its retroactively go and ban people in retaliation to someone else being banned.

IBM and everyone else with an offensive attitude is trying to justify their actions by pointing the finger at other people and saying "Well, they did it, and it's not fair!!!! So why can't I?" Ban DJ and everyone else, if you are going to ban me!!!

If someone has been abusive in whatever way - it needs reporting to me. How am I supposed to ban DJ when I have never, ever, ever, heard about this before IBM was banned, I've never ever, ever, seen a piece of evidence to show DJ as being absusive/racist - and yet I am suppossed to do something about it?

This is how 5 year old children try to justify their actions, because other people did it - they think that its OK for them to do it. Because they do not see other people being punished, they find it unfair. This isn't about you vs other members. This is about you vs me, and the other utassault.net admins. Everything is unique, there is no umbrella that applies to everything on utassault.net

The bottom line is, there are many people who administrate utassault.net across multiple servers/countries. If you do not like the way it is run, then fuck off - and do not come back.
 
I do not believe that admins love to abuse or try to harm any clans / members on purpose.

Well, we've some special guys here who insulted and flamed alot against the administration in the past.
And then they wonder why some reactions / actions from the admin team dont seem to be fair for them.

Show me a guy who helps you, although you flamed him over months.
I don't say that admins abused or did that on purpose in the past. But if they had, it's understandable.
Some of those flamers should learn how to talk with respect to admins, who take alot of work and time to make this league running.

Martz post showed pretty well, how banning in case of racismn works.
imo the admin team is on the right (and fair) track.

The whole flame discussion was just another topic started by some Mod / 23 (ex -) members.
We had plenty of them in the past and i'm afraid more will come.
Instead of PMing admins they post crap here.
Crying like lil schoolgirls (/me remembers the whole puta vs 23 story :yawn:. ) while screaming "buhuuu they are so unfair". :tired:
 
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Shut the fuck up about asking for a ban u idiot, u shouldve been banned for a life time rai.
now fo to that hole u came from, cunt
 
-Wish- said:
m1c was racist to AnTi on a quakenet irc server, yet AnTi bans him for 2months.
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m1c had a discussion with anti and m1c later added a sentence he shouldnt have. this log i got over msn

I reported it to Anti and anti acted on it, while it in no way had any relation to UTA. It was as a dispute between anti his stubborness, which is shown once again in this matter, and m1c acted bad on it and paid the price for it. I also had my own shit over this so dont worry.

Now it happens to m1c and admins don't act on it. Dumb and hypocritical.
Don't go make a stance you made in the past and don't act on it when it happens to someone else.
Even if it is the person you punished before.

IMO that's my view on it but others can disagree.
 
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Martz said:
I've never ever, ever, seen a piece of evidence to show DJ as being absusive/racist - and yet I am suppossed to do something about it?
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i can provide you logs from UTApug where DJ makes the remark towards m1c. anti has it on a PM on forums and i send him an email if you want it right away. Also you can ask the other 12-13 ppl on server then. Flames can be flames but one can go to far and that is what DJ did.
 
JACKEL said:
Shut the fuck up about asking for a ban u idiot, u shouldve been banned for a life time rai.
now fo to that hole u came from, cunt
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absolutely true...

even though anti is special... :rolleyes: i agree with him (& cratos & mym & rest of admin team)...
those retarded little kids cant be taken serious in any way!

Good job :clap:
 
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naja nvm if u dont ban dj, he will get his punishment soon enough *points to mod vs co & 23 vs mega*
and no macho :fingers:
 
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