ID cards

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Ajax

Ajax

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Dunno how many of you know but the uk goverment is trying to fast track ID cards in the uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3607115.stm

What are ppls views on having to have a ID card, and should they use biometrics as studys have shown the useage of finger prints and eye scanning not to be 100% foolproof

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994611

Just think of it this way your personal information will be kept in a huge database, how surcure is this ?
Also a point to think about is how the uas is dicating the standards for such cards

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/07/identity/

will id cards stop crime ? Currantly the police have no problem indentifying who is who, just have problems proving who did what, its hard to see what use a ID card is from a police P.O.V.

Thoughts pls and also feedback from ppl who live in countrys where you already have to use such a card.
 
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its a stupid idea, thought of by stupid people within the government....









































so we'll prolly see them about this time next month :clap: go Tony!
 
uas is dictating it :hm:

think id cards are ok enough but allways going to be some way to get around that ..ie making them cant be hard if you know your shit with id cards, passports etc... so pretty usless and waste of money.

the forensic thing has allways been disputed and probly will allways be too.
 
Re:

Most other countires have em, means u can travel in EC without a passport, I dont see no problem, the info that would be on them is not much more than what is already stored about you, nothing is 100% foolproof, but I imagine its harder to fake my retina than my signature.
 
What do ID cards have that probably isn't held by them anyways: census, polling information, national insurance, passports, drivers licenses. Again I think some people argue because they have a chance to.

You need ID to get in somewhere. So you take a driver's license for example. Difference between this and ID card? None. If you don't want to use it you don't have to. Makes no difference to me what I show.

However, very correct on the crime point. There is no direct link between people having ID cards and cutting crime. I'm still trying to fully work out what the indirect link is :P


So in conclusion I'd say good idea for the wrong reasons. :dunce:

EDIT: Just noticed the point you made about biometrics; fingerprinting has a very good R-ratio, i.e. the individual difference is very low (your fingerprint doesn't change over time), whilst the group difference is the highest you can get (everyone has a unique fingerprint). But fingerprints are liable to damage and can be picked up from surfaces (i.e what the cops do after a murder). A better idea is an iris scan; that has the uniqueness and solidity of a fingerprint and to my knowledge isn't affected or changed by anything. The only way you could get past this if the underlying system was secure is to scoop someone's eye out :P
 
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im 100% for ID cards, there are no realistic disadvantages to them imo unless you have something to hide. Millions and millions of peoples private information is already held in databases without their consent so i dont think security is an issue.

Also stop illegal immigrants, terrorists etc etc.

Dont give a flying fuck about the cost either, cos they would probably just build another Dome or put more internet public phones in or let a few more people live a happy life that are perfectly capable of working but choose not to and sponge of the rest of society instead :sofa:.
 
Looks like they're only 1 month away guys...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/07/id_cards/

Speaking for myself, I am 100% against ID cards.

The main argument for them at the moment is that they will cut down on "Terrorism". How exactly? As someone pointed out on The Register a few days ago, ID cards are compulsory in Spain from the age of 14, and what exactly did they do to prevent the godawful bombing at that railway station? Diddly fucking squat. Oh, and why, despite over 30 years of Irish Republican terrorism on mainland Britain, did no-one see the need for a mass ID card system during that time? Why only now?

The problem with data stored on ID cards is that it relies on human input. Garbage in, Garbage out. Anyone thinking that the introduction of ID cards will secure the immigration system is living in a dream world. The recent "rubber stamping" scandal of asylum & immigration applications ought to make that 100% clear to everyone. Oh, and if we're talking about fraud prevention, well how about stopping to ask why there are some 70 million active national insurance numbers in the UK, but only some 55 million living inhabitants? Strange that...

Some people argue that all the information which will be on ID cards you have already given out for driving licenses, credit cards, passports etc, so why the problem now? The problem is, with credit cards, driving licenses & passports, you are surrendering some personal privacy in exchange for tangible benefits - greater mobility, easier access to credit finance and the ability to travel internationally respectively. What exactly is the tangible benefit which ID cards will offer? Answer: there isn't one.

As to that tired old "if you're innocent, you have nothing to hide" argument, well, that is just lazy thinking. It seems that the UK government and its employees have a little problem with snooping on its citizens even when they are doing nothing wrong:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/07/misuse_computer_government/

Tell me, what right do bored civil servants have to rifle through people's personal details to while away a quiet friday afternoon? None whatsoever. If the information to be contained on ID cards could only be accessed piecemeal by those with a direct need to know certain things, fine. But the proposals are that all arms of government will have access to everything. Civil Liberties nightmare brewing?

How about logistical problems?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/05/uk_id_cards/

Does the government seriously believe it can bring in on time, and on budget, a system whereby 55 million people have their biometric details scanned in, and the system is kept constantly updated with all the daily births & deaths? Yeh right. There isn't a single UK Government IT project so far which hasn't been an unmitigated disaster.

Oh, and why do we seek to introduce more loopholes and security problems before sorting out the existing ones. ID cards which are used as a universal base for other things become a high priority target for forgers, or people who can suborn bent officials. Fact is, if a human can dream up a code, another human will find a way to crack it. ID cards will not secure at all, and my bet is quality forgeries, or worse, illegally obtained "official" ones will be available within days of their introduction.

To sum up, my objections are:

1. Goverment has demonstrated a clear inability and more, unwillingness, to ensure the integrity of the system, and prevent abuse.
2. Vast cost and logistical effort required, for what gain to the citizen exactly?
3. Insufficient debate on the issue, and in particular on issues of integrity and prevention of abuse.
4. Assumption on the part of government that they can force the issue through.
5. Dispicable act of preparing enabling legislation to ram ID cards through as soon as there is a terrorist outrage in London, knowing that it will be voted straight through at an emotional time with virtually zero debate.
 
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You read the register too much!

Fact remains you cant judge how successful a scheme will be until its fully implemented. Fair enough there may be holes in it, but you have to admit that the ideas behind these cards and what they could be the start of are attractive. How good would it be to only need one card in your wallet? To use one card for your passport / credit card / savings card ... the possibilities and advantages are endless, they arent only a feeble attempt to catch the channel-jumpers and stop terrorists.

Living in a dream world maybe, but its only by having dreams that things get done.

as for insufficient debate .... MY ARSE!!! The idea has been around for DECADES!. Cant be arsed finding proof on the web but its been discussed hundreds of times, in many different places.
 
while you see the slide into cerdit cards and other information as a good thing i for one cant see the reason that my bank should know i have 3 points on my licance and have a prosate problem (just an example). the more information stored on the card the more that total strangers are going to be able to learn your personal info. If an id card comes in it should be just that and nowt else imo.
 
Why not just give everyone a tax rebate instead of making stupid ID cards. The government spends 70% of it's budget on utter shite.
 
i do try
china-world-sweeping-up-32.3.jpg
 
Joko said:
Fact remains you cant judge how successful a scheme will be until its fully implemented. Fair enough there may be holes in it, but you have to admit that the ideas behind these cards and what they could be the start of are attractive. How good would it be to only need one card in your wallet? To use one card for your passport / credit card / savings card ... the possibilities and advantages are endless, they arent only a feeble attempt to catch the channel-jumpers and stop terrorists.
Click to expand...

One card which does everything? And suppose it got lost?

How screwed would you be until you could get a replacement? Not being able to drive, not being able to travel, not being able to get money out of a hole in the wall late at night in a sudden emergency.

Suppose it got stolen and cloned?

I mean, how totally fucked would you be? Someone else screwing your credit rating, driving record, to say nothing of withdrawing all your savings etc etc.

A "one card does everything" idea is a disaster waiting to happen.

Point is, these cards are being marketed to the voters as "inevitable" in the "fight" against "terrorism" and "bogus immigration". The fact of the matter is, official ID cards will do nothing to stop those things, or reduce them. So, what you are left with is a card which allows bored bureaucrats to rifle through your personal records and make any deletions or additions they feel like, with consumate ease. And to add insult to injury, they're talking about us having to pay £40 or more for the "privilege" of getting one.
 
Theyre not even paying for them themselves? :lol: Why the fuck are we paying tax, apart from funding the house of lords' cappucino and biscuit problem.

I agree with Thur here :)eek:) that, even without the worst case scenarios uve pointed out, theyre flawed.

If you're gonna make ppl have them, then why not give them to anyone *not* born in the UK?

Fact remains you cant judge how successful a scheme will be until its fully implemented
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This is the UK, name 1 decent project run by any government in the last 50 years :whatever:

You'd be better off microchipping everyone than having an ID card. And I'd be totally against that too :D
 
I think we've already established the fact they will do nothing about terrorism thnx :whip:
 
-CrackKing- said:
Theyre not even paying for them themselves? :lol: Why the fuck are we paying tax, apart from funding the house of lords' cappucino and biscuit problem.

I agree with Thur here :)eek:) that, even without the worst case scenarios uve pointed out, theyre flawed
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Flawed is an understatement.

I was reading an article in the sunday papers about how they are talking of putting the passport fee up to £80 or so as well, reducing the time a passport is valid for (from 10 years to 5), and having the biometric ones in credit card size by 2005.

Police state is on the way...
 
its really handy :)
smaller then that passport crap and all EU country's accept them....


omg this smiley :footy: green/yellow The Hague ffs :D
 
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