Fox Hunting
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I dont see the point of hunting animals just for fun. So if theres no special reason (like overpopulation) this "sport" should be banned.
With hounds? Ban it. Chasing any animal for hours and then allowing the dogs to attack and kill it is cruel.
The fox population does need to be controlled though as they have no natural predators in the UK, but there are more humane ways to kill a fox when necessary.
The fox population does need to be controlled though as they have no natural predators in the UK, but there are more humane ways to kill a fox when necessary.
Unless we have a member of the peerage among us then I don't think you'll find any1 that agrees with it.
But I do agree with CS, the fox population of the Uk needs to be controlled, but this ain't the way.
But I do agree with CS, the fox population of the Uk needs to be controlled, but this ain't the way.
On a debate about foxhunting I have heard an arguement "for" that hunting with hounds is a more humane way than for example, shooting the animal. I fail to see how this is the case.
Asides from that, the most common arguement for it I have heard is that there are a good few people who have made it their livelyhood and it would be a shame to put them out of a job. Yes, people losing their jobs is a bad thing, but it happens all the time (unfortuantely, to thousands of people at a time) and earning money from something as cruel as hunting for sport
I can understand hunting for food, I cannot understand hunting for sport.
Controlling the population of foxes, if required, still leads to the death of the animal, but not in such a cruel and terrifying manner for the thing, and it is method of killing it that offends people I think, rather than the death
Asides from that, the most common arguement for it I have heard is that there are a good few people who have made it their livelyhood and it would be a shame to put them out of a job. Yes, people losing their jobs is a bad thing, but it happens all the time (unfortuantely, to thousands of people at a time) and earning money from something as cruel as hunting for sport
I can understand hunting for food, I cannot understand hunting for sport.
Controlling the population of foxes, if required, still leads to the death of the animal, but not in such a cruel and terrifying manner for the thing, and it is method of killing it that offends people I think, rather than the death
Ban it for sure. Extreme cruelty for the sake of peoples fun
If the fox population really needs to be controlled (ie they are causing damage to farmers crops / live stock) then either relocate them to somewhere out of harms way, or kill them as quickly as possible - quick poison or shooting. Chasing them for miles across countryside then letting a pack of dogs rip them to shreds whilst still alive is incredibly inhumane.
Foxes are really just wild dogs, and if someone did that to the dog I grew up with (recently passed away due to natural causes) then I would ensure exactly the same happened to them
If the fox population really needs to be controlled (ie they are causing damage to farmers crops / live stock) then either relocate them to somewhere out of harms way, or kill them as quickly as possible - quick poison or shooting. Chasing them for miles across countryside then letting a pack of dogs rip them to shreds whilst still alive is incredibly inhumane.
Foxes are really just wild dogs, and if someone did that to the dog I grew up with (recently passed away due to natural causes) then I would ensure exactly the same happened to them
RE:
the fox population doesnt need to be contolled at all
populations fluctuate in all animals, an abudance in food means loads of animals once food becomes harder only those best suited survive, if foxes are left to their own business they will control themselves, only places where fox populations explode are in cities not in countrysides, and when was the last time you saw a horse and hound chase down your street?
People who think tearing an animal up with dogs are just sick fucks
the fox population doesnt need to be contolled at all
populations fluctuate in all animals, an abudance in food means loads of animals once food becomes harder only those best suited survive, if foxes are left to their own business they will control themselves, only places where fox populations explode are in cities not in countrysides, and when was the last time you saw a horse and hound chase down your street?
People who think tearing an animal up with dogs are just sick fucks
seams your all against it 
yes foxs need thier number watched and controled but there are many more human ways than hunting
yes foxs need thier number watched and controled but there are many more human ways than hunting
RE:
large birds of prey will take fox cubs and adolesant foxes as will badgers, stotes and down south american mink will, dont forget disease and injury a fox gets injured its fucked unless rolf finds it, and the lifespan of a fox is only about 4 or 5 years hardley a fucking age.
large birds of prey will take fox cubs and adolesant foxes as will badgers, stotes and down south american mink will, dont forget disease and injury a fox gets injured its fucked unless rolf finds it, and the lifespan of a fox is only about 4 or 5 years hardley a fucking age.
Re: RE:
With regards to ur initial question Ajax, yeah fox hunting should have been banned years ago for many reasons that have all been mentioned in earlier posts. What a disgusting little industry it is
Interesting point this. I do think that fox numbers in the UK would have to be controller but not to the degree that the general public seem to think. Possibly only in certain areas of the country. I agree that animal populations would control themselves if left to their own devices in a `natural' natural enviroment, if u know what i mean...but large areas of the country side have been altered by our farming methods. We actually disrupt the food chain which can dramatically change things.
With regards to ur initial question Ajax, yeah fox hunting should have been banned years ago for many reasons that have all been mentioned in earlier posts. What a disgusting little industry it is
Indeed DT.
The league agasint cruel sports estimates that the UK fox population peaks at 500,000 in the spring. By winter when foxes mate 200,000 of them have been killed by man (deliberately or accidentally), 20,000 of that from hunting with hounds.
100,000 die due to 'natural' selection
Seems like overkill to me...
The league agasint cruel sports estimates that the UK fox population peaks at 500,000 in the spring. By winter when foxes mate 200,000 of them have been killed by man (deliberately or accidentally), 20,000 of that from hunting with hounds.
100,000 die due to 'natural' selection
Seems like overkill to me...
I saw something on the news about fox hunting for sport, altho instead of a fox they had some gimpy bloke being chased... the huntsman geeza said something along the lines of "Its not the same as hunting a fox but it is a new challenge and others should try it"
So their want to hunt/chase something can be catered for by a gimpy bloke instead of a fox and nothing is killed at the end... seems good to me.
Think Andy said something about birds of prey taking out foxes... problem there is that Britain's population of birds of prey aint exactly huge is it.... tbh instead of argueing over the banning of fox hunting the government should just say fuck you all and ban it, then concentrating the time they would have wasted on the fox hunting debate in trying to increase number of birds of prey (or anything that will help balance out the fox/other "pests" populations)
![:\](/images/smilies/submitted/smark/ohwell.gif "Oh Well :\")
So their want to hunt/chase something can be catered for by a gimpy bloke instead of a fox and nothing is killed at the end... seems good to me.
Think Andy said something about birds of prey taking out foxes... problem there is that Britain's population of birds of prey aint exactly huge is it.... tbh instead of argueing over the banning of fox hunting the government should just say fuck you all and ban it, then concentrating the time they would have wasted on the fox hunting debate in trying to increase number of birds of prey (or anything that will help balance out the fox/other "pests" populations)
Only reason afaik is because they can be a pest to farmers, killing off chickens etc cos they burrow into the cages, and maybe one or two other things.
Not really justification for hunting them in the way they do imho.
Not really justification for hunting them in the way they do imho.
Its not that easy m8 unfortunately. 1 potential stumbling block for motions such as this is that they have to be passed through the House of Lords and as things stand atm a favourable vote margin couldnt be guarenteed. I reckon its something to do with all the old boys not wanting to piss off their neighbours from their country drums. Saying that though I dont feel that the Government is doing everything it can to push the ban through as quickly as it could. Its a good `vote carrot' u see and they've been dangling this 1 for the last 2 elections if my memory serves me right.
Nice to see people sticking together on this
Can I ask people a question which is related? If Aj or forum admin think it is off topic I am cool with you deleting it.
I am dead against Fox Hunting for all of the reasons stated above. (And I have an extreme dislike for the upper classes)
Yet I go fishing. I went fishing as a lad and stopped at about 15 to pursue a far fairer game
I started again about 4 years ago. As an adult I have an inner turmoil about fishing. I love Pike fishing and as a kid used to use livebaits - I have not done this since returning to the pastime as I now find it distasteful.
I do continue to fish however. I find it a fantastic release from a pressured work environment and intend to take my son regularly.
I know an enormous amount about the native wildlife in this country-simply because I go fishing-I would like my son to have the same knowledge/appreciation.
At the last world championships, which were held on the River Trent in Nottingham, an anti-fishing protester (yes 1!) tried to sabotage the event by jumping off the bridge. She was not taken seriously and had no other support.
Fishing seems to survive the wrath of the Anti's because it is a working class pastime. Coarse fishing btw-not game.
What are peoples opinions? I would be interested to know.
BB
Can I ask people a question which is related? If Aj or forum admin think it is off topic I am cool with you deleting it.
I am dead against Fox Hunting for all of the reasons stated above. (And I have an extreme dislike for the upper classes)
Yet I go fishing. I went fishing as a lad and stopped at about 15 to pursue a far fairer game
I started again about 4 years ago. As an adult I have an inner turmoil about fishing. I love Pike fishing and as a kid used to use livebaits - I have not done this since returning to the pastime as I now find it distasteful.
I do continue to fish however. I find it a fantastic release from a pressured work environment and intend to take my son regularly.
I know an enormous amount about the native wildlife in this country-simply because I go fishing-I would like my son to have the same knowledge/appreciation.
At the last world championships, which were held on the River Trent in Nottingham, an anti-fishing protester (yes 1!) tried to sabotage the event by jumping off the bridge. She was not taken seriously and had no other support.
Fishing seems to survive the wrath of the Anti's because it is a working class pastime. Coarse fishing btw-not game.
What are peoples opinions? I would be interested to know.
BB
Well, I'm not a member of the peerage or anything, but I'm going to play devils advocate here. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with hunting foxes with dogs.
1. Those are nice figures squizz. Not disputing them, but I think its fair to say the League Against Cruel Sports will ensure the figures always support their own case. And all those bloody pictures of foxes mauled by the dogs. How about some pictures of the small mammals etc mauled by foxes?
2. Foxes are Raptors. Opportunistic killers. Like cats, they will take down chickens, birds, and any small mammals they can get. They also don't actually eat everything they kill.
3. Why is hunting a fox with dogs seen as so wrong? I mean, no-one complains about a pack of lions taking down a single, sick, vulnerable antelope from a herd do they? Nature is red in tooth and claw people. Deal with it.
4. Is hunting a fox with dogs really so inhumane? I mean, the fox has at least an odds on chance of escaping. You could say it is the most natural way to keep fox numbers down. If a fox is shot at, well, that is hardly more humane. Its most likely to be shot at by some farmer with his shotgun at long range. So the fox limps away with loads of small pellets in its flank and legs, the wounds slowly getting infected and killing it painfully. Maybe it gets poisoned. Most poisons put down to kill off vermin also kill in a slow, painful way. Plus, poison is indiscriminate. Chances are you'll get something other than a fox.
5. There are plenty of far more important things to legislate for before you need to bother with foxhunting.
Lets have some logical replies here, and not ones based on boring cliches revolving around class hatred or political affiliation, or a failure to understand the workings of the natural world.
1. Those are nice figures squizz. Not disputing them, but I think its fair to say the League Against Cruel Sports will ensure the figures always support their own case. And all those bloody pictures of foxes mauled by the dogs. How about some pictures of the small mammals etc mauled by foxes?
2. Foxes are Raptors. Opportunistic killers. Like cats, they will take down chickens, birds, and any small mammals they can get. They also don't actually eat everything they kill.
3. Why is hunting a fox with dogs seen as so wrong? I mean, no-one complains about a pack of lions taking down a single, sick, vulnerable antelope from a herd do they? Nature is red in tooth and claw people. Deal with it.
4. Is hunting a fox with dogs really so inhumane? I mean, the fox has at least an odds on chance of escaping. You could say it is the most natural way to keep fox numbers down. If a fox is shot at, well, that is hardly more humane. Its most likely to be shot at by some farmer with his shotgun at long range. So the fox limps away with loads of small pellets in its flank and legs, the wounds slowly getting infected and killing it painfully. Maybe it gets poisoned. Most poisons put down to kill off vermin also kill in a slow, painful way. Plus, poison is indiscriminate. Chances are you'll get something other than a fox.
5. There are plenty of far more important things to legislate for before you need to bother with foxhunting.
Lets have some logical replies here, and not ones based on boring cliches revolving around class hatred or political affiliation, or a failure to understand the workings of the natural world.
I used to spend a fair amount of time pike fishing too, but in recent years haven't had the time or opportunity.
It is cruel to the fish, as Im sure it scares the crap outta them and causes them some pain. However, there are many reasons why it is much less cruel than fox hunting.
Fish are no where near as intelligent as foxes - they don't feel emotions and have a memory you can measure in seconds. The emotional trauma they suffer by being caught then put back is far far less than that of the fox
Also, they have very few nerves in their mouth. This has been proven, and the hook causes them very little pain at all.
Thirdly, 99% of fishermen (unless intending to eat their catch) will put the fish back immediately after catching it, so they can continue to go about their life as soon as their 30 second memory runs out
So yes, fishing is cruel to the fish, but not anywhere near as cruel as fox hunting. The main point is the animals life is not ended unnecessarily, it is left alive and almost unscathed.
It is cruel to the fish, as Im sure it scares the crap outta them and causes them some pain. However, there are many reasons why it is much less cruel than fox hunting.
Fish are no where near as intelligent as foxes - they don't feel emotions and have a memory you can measure in seconds. The emotional trauma they suffer by being caught then put back is far far less than that of the fox
Also, they have very few nerves in their mouth. This has been proven, and the hook causes them very little pain at all.
Thirdly, 99% of fishermen (unless intending to eat their catch) will put the fish back immediately after catching it, so they can continue to go about their life as soon as their 30 second memory runs out
So yes, fishing is cruel to the fish, but not anywhere near as cruel as fox hunting. The main point is the animals life is not ended unnecessarily, it is left alive and almost unscathed.
Thur,
Surely it would be nice to say that with the intelligence humans have been gifted with, we don't feel the need to kill other animals for sport?
Yes in the wild predators will toy with their prey before eating it, sometimes even killing for fun, but surely humans are above that? Surely in the millions of years it has taken us to evolve we have learnt at least a small amount of respect for nature? (On second thoughts, probably not )
Method of kill - yes shooting can lead top a slow death for the fox, however the majority would be killed outright. A shotgun is an incredibly powerful weapon in the face of a small animal like the fox. But, even better than that is posion. Set some traps for the foxes with some very lethal poision (obviously making sure it is out of harms way from kids, domestic animals etc - this shouldnt be a problem on private property). This way, the fox is guaranteed a quick death.
Surely it would be nice to say that with the intelligence humans have been gifted with, we don't feel the need to kill other animals for sport?
Yes in the wild predators will toy with their prey before eating it, sometimes even killing for fun, but surely humans are above that? Surely in the millions of years it has taken us to evolve we have learnt at least a small amount of respect for nature? (On second thoughts, probably not
)Method of kill - yes shooting can lead top a slow death for the fox, however the majority would be killed outright. A shotgun is an incredibly powerful weapon in the face of a small animal like the fox. But, even better than that is posion. Set some traps for the foxes with some very lethal poision (obviously making sure it is out of harms way from kids, domestic animals etc - this shouldnt be a problem on private property). This way, the fox is guaranteed a quick death.