2 Person Speedrun Record Zone
- Thread starter Torp
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harhar 
i think we should try again. my 'beloved' backdodge or that other thing with the roof slope... maybe we can get it down to 16 secs (edit: maybe 15???)
but then we need some1 to code a high resolution timer
and a spawnpoint selector. i don't even remember which spawns we got and if we used the teleporters etc 
anyways was a good waste of 3 hours
i think we should try again. my 'beloved' backdodge or that other thing with the roof slope... maybe we can get it down to 16 secs
(edit: maybe 15???)but then we need some1 to code a high resolution timer
and a spawnpoint selector. i don't even remember which spawns we got and if we used the teleporters etc anyways was a good waste of 3 hours 
:cool: care to share your strategy?
edit: I think our strat could go to 15 with high high high optimization
I think this should be possible and not such a bad idea for the sake of speedrunning...
by the way in q3 defrag the whole thing works with a spawnarea.
the (high resolution) timer (re)starts only when you leave that area.
- might be too hard to implement in our case as it might need a change in the maps themselves.
- okay let me try the positive approach. summon timo, cratos, polle, 2002
- not sure if a mutator or mod could check player x,y,z coordinates in order to implement such a spawn area? cratos? (i mean you added those 'zones of interest' to the maps in LeagueAS - so maybe? maybe??? polle?)
- in that case the spawnpoint selection could be skipped. (if it can't be 'easily' done)
- and what about a highres timer? [endticks-startticks]/tickrate? would that be possible as a mutator/mod? timo?
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@ spawnarea:
the (high resolution) timer (re)starts only when you leave that area.
- might be too hard to implement in our case as it might need a change in the maps themselves.
- okay let me try the positive approach. summon timo, cratos, polle, 2002
- not sure if a mutator or mod could check player x,y,z coordinates in order to implement such a spawn area? cratos? (i mean you added those 'zones of interest' to the maps in LeagueAS - so maybe? maybe??? polle?)
- in that case the spawnpoint selection could be skipped. (if it can't be 'easily' done)
- and what about a highres timer? [endticks-startticks]/tickrate? would that be possible as a mutator/mod? timo?
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@ spawnarea:
- in some cases that leaves the possibility to leave the spawn area, do stuff(!), come back and only then start going to the end of the map.
- in their case with an added rocketlauncher or armor or more ammo or ... :
- heaps of speed which they do not lose in the sometimes big spawn areas (strafejumping).
- that would add more depth if it was possible. speedrun section 1: no reentering of spawnarea possible, section 2: reentering allowed once, ...
- one great thing would obviously be the possibility of just walking back to the area/suiciding without having to restart the map
@ DTL: it's not that much actually
a) spawn area checking (check x,y,z player coordinates)
b) high resolution timer should really not be that hard. i mean with TIW and all that, there must be a way of accessing the number of server ticks? maybe even [cputicksEnd-cputicksStart]/cpuFrequency
c) spawn point selection. again: the
guys fixed the final objective bug in bridge with leagueAS which means modifying the objective's touch radius . or they replaced pickups in some maps, etc. so there might be a possibility of removing a spawnpoint by it's 'ID' in the maps.
@ Torp:
( writing thesis sucks )
a) spawn area checking (check x,y,z player coordinates)
b) high resolution timer should really not be that hard. i mean with TIW and all that, there must be a way of accessing the number of server ticks? maybe even [cputicksEnd-cputicksStart]/cpuFrequency
c) spawn point selection. again: the
guys fixed the final objective bug in bridge with leagueAS which means modifying the objective's touch radius . or they replaced pickups in some maps, etc. so there might be a possibility of removing a spawnpoint by it's 'ID' in the maps.@ Torp:
( writing thesis sucks )
harhar
i think we should try again. my 'beloved' backdodge or that other thing with the roof slope... maybe we can get it down to 16 secs
but then we need some1 to code a high resolution timer
I already started coding a spawn point limiter, 'quick restart' and 'smart restart' mutator for online solo runs, so making some changes to it shouldn't be too difficult.
Spawnpoint "selection" is pretty tricky as an after-thought to maps, though. So realistically we can either selectively enable/disable particular spawnpoints up-front, or move all the spawn points to one clustered area. e.g. In Bridge, either move all spawn points to the bit in the middle of the cave between the weapon crates, or just disable the water spawn and spawn behind the pillar.
The quick restart was just a simple 'mutate restartmap' command which would do a full map reset; the smart restart was an idea which never fully worked though - it basically tried to emulate a full restart by resetting the timer and returning all spawn points back to their first state, however it couldn't reset all the movers and re-create the objectives (when you take an objective, it effectively destroys it from the map completely during that run).
The High-resolution timer thing might be possible, though it would never be on active display, it would just simply spam the console at intervals, or at the end of a map; this would require that ALL servers have the same tick-rate, or are running an HRT mod - this wouldn't be a problem for any Win32 servers, linux servers would be iffy.
If someone tells me which spawn points they want enabling / disabling in each map, then I can crack on and put those in; can always look at making it smarter at a later date. I'm after the object name in each instance, so you'd need to load up the map in Unreal Editor and get the actual Name under the Object section. (see screeny)
e.g.
AS-Bridge: PlayerStart7, PlayerStart8, PlayerStart9, PlayerStart21 = disabled
/edit:
Just spotted the bit about the timer only starting after you leave a zone / area... This could be possible; certainly I have 2 ideas to try code-wise; again someone just needs to define the areas, and I could try it out.
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thank you very much for replying so far already!
- for the high resolution timer: could there be an additional parameter iSpecificServerTickrate (which would have to be set in the server's ini maybe) that could be used to correct for the different tickrates?
- for the high resolution timer: could there be an additional parameter iSpecificServerTickrate (which would have to be set in the server's ini maybe) that could be used to correct for the different tickrates?
Wow awesome work weirdo
about the spawn-point thing: imo we should have the original spawnpoints (and thus not just move them all to some fairly-close place)
would it be possible to give players options to 'toggle nearest spawnpoint' and 'toggle nearest active spawnpoint' buttons ... this information would also have to be stored for after map restarts though
oh and about the online runs... the restarting isn't what (feels like) takes most time... much more annoying is having to wait for the map to start (in solo u just press fire, and off u go)
about the spawn-point thing: imo we should have the original spawnpoints (and thus not just move them all to some fairly-close place)
would it be possible to give players options to 'toggle nearest spawnpoint' and 'toggle nearest active spawnpoint' buttons ... this information would also have to be stored for after map restarts though
oh and about the online runs... the restarting isn't what (feels like) takes most time... much more annoying is having to wait for the map to start (in solo u just press fire, and off u go)
hmm I just realized it's not as easy as I though, because objectives (or any trigger) can also toggle spawns 
anyway.... my original plan... I imagined it's fairly easy to have some script iterate over all spawnpoints and find the one that is closest to the player (possibly in spec-mode) (or, find the closest currently-active one) and then have some button toggle that spawnpoint to become active/inactive
that way ppl could simply disable all spawns, go to the position they want to start and toggle that1
basically I don't know the possibilities of mutators
edit: I'm still not at all for a high-res timer
oh, how about super-slowmo for some awesome times? (yeah I'm trying to pull this towards TASes here 
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anyway.... my original plan... I imagined it's fairly easy to have some script iterate over all spawnpoints and find the one that is closest to the player (possibly in spec-mode) (or, find the closest currently-active one) and then have some button toggle that spawnpoint to become active/inactive
that way ppl could simply disable all spawns, go to the position they want to start and toggle that1
basically I don't know the possibilities of mutators
edit: I'm still not at all for a high-res timer
oh, how about super-slowmo for some awesome times?
(yeah I'm trying to pull this towards TASes here )why are you against an HRT, datel?
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@ timo: i totally forgot about having to reset all kinds of movers for a map restart. that's not the case in the Q3 defrag maps. they only have automatic doors and repeating movers i think.
hm well then... :
... or maybe just forget about that idea about a complete map restart
- back to spawn point selection first?
- then maybe an HRT?
- you already drew with some of konnan's times in the single person speedrun challenge, but you will never know, if you were faster ( well you won't know anyway because he didn't cap his time with an HRT either but you get the point )
- do you think an HRT would lead to endless practicing instead of fun+innovation (@ the next map when one seems to be maxxed out)? that might be the case, indeed.
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@ timo: i totally forgot about having to reset all kinds of movers for a map restart. that's not the case in the Q3 defrag maps. they only have automatic doors and repeating movers i think.
hm well then... :
just some thoughts of mine, that are indeed too complicated after all. maybe we should keep things simple for now but i just didn't want to delete what I wrote down. so feel free to ignore the ideas
but i just didn't want to delete what I wrote down. so feel free to ignore the ideas maybe just disable the possibility of [resetting a map] / [resetting the timer] once:
a) any non-resettable mover has been started
(if b) is easier to implement)
or
b) any objective has been completed OR any non-resettable mover has been started
(if b) is easier to implement)
or
c) ...
... or maybe just forget about that idea about a complete map restart
- back to spawn point selection first?
- then maybe an HRT?
(just the idea again - could be ignored as well )
)- or maybe an area in the spawn point region that resets the timer when all players are in it - and starts the timer when one player is outside of it (be it an HRT or a normal timer).
but: this would bring us back to the point where we have to know if any objectives have been completed or movers have been activated or players have made any pickups(!) (apart from the additional enforcer) because in that case a reset should not be allowed. Not sure if that is easy to check. but picking up stuff or even completing parts of the map - is not the idea of a speedrun right?
q3 defrag spoiler:
the q3 defrag thing works differently; and being able to do stuff + then resetting the timer is a cool thing there. but they do mostly solo runs and the maps are more linear. which makes it okay there. if someone leaves the spawn area @ defrag, strafejumps like hell, comes back with heaps of speed, enters the spawnarea again, bends around still remaining incredibly fast and then starts the real run with heaps of speed gained already when the timer starts counting, then that's just a quick start. and a cool thing
what I saw them do as well: they often have a parcours of platforms and when you fall down, you get teleported to the beginning. what one guy did in a platform level where the goal was on a platform high above the spawning area:
he started, jumped along a few platforms normally to reach a rocketlauncher, then he fired a rocket towards the spawnarea, jumped off the platform he was standing on, got teleported back to the start right where that rocket was just exploding + did a rocketjump at the same time so he got boosted straight up towards the goal with the timer just having started counting again!
or look at this maybe (i'll stop my defrag advertisments here)
he jumps off the platform to get teleported back, but he uses his momentum to start some special strafejump right from the point where he re-appears inside the spawn area. just this detail enables him to pull of some crazy strafejumping afterwards skipping almost the whole parcours 
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That's a lot to read, so I might cap it later... My thoughts after the last post were along the same lines anyway; as soon as an objective had been taken, the timer couldn't be reset back to full time, but on both players re-entering a given radius of first spawns, the timer would be reset.
I also had an idea of lap timing particular objectives, but it would need to know in advance if spawn points are tied to objectives in order to do that.
e.g. (bad example, but you get the idea) in Bridge if you were to activate the second spawns, then it could snapshot the timer there and reset it to that snap whenever you were both back at those spawns.
Anyways, no point in getting ahead of ourselves, I need to get the basics sorted first, and that won't realistically happen until later this week.
I also had an idea of lap timing particular objectives, but it would need to know in advance if spawn points are tied to objectives in order to do that.
e.g. (bad example, but you get the idea) in Bridge if you were to activate the second spawns, then it could snapshot the timer there and reset it to that snap whenever you were both back at those spawns.
Anyways, no point in getting ahead of ourselves, I need to get the basics sorted first, and that won't realistically happen until later this week.
