Who wants another war?+ air strikes on iraq

[grizz]

until the debate is over

and when will this be? your argument hinges on proof as does mine. im saying im satisfied with the proof thus far, and asking you what more do you need for you to say the same? you cant answer, because you cant admit you were foolish for saying what you did originally. it really is that simple in my view.

once more i shall say that i was not attacking you. should i prove this as well? what level of proof would you require for that?

 

[grizz]

ok id just like to put my hand up to being condescending here, which is naughty as i always moan at thuring for it.

sorry.

 

[Alf Roberts]

No I agree there hasn't, but likewise there has been no proof there ever were.

Im sorry but i didnt want to get involved in this thread cos no doubt ill be labelled the bad guy for contesting Spirits comments but hes said a coupla things that simply have to be put right.

For some1 that claimed to know so much on the subject u deliver so little. Noone has ever claimed that Iraq has never had WMD...including the Iraqis. For christs sake the US sold them the sodding materials to make 'em in the 1st place!
The point is Iraq claimed to have destroyed them after the initial Gulf war. Up until 1997 UN weapons inspectors had been dismateling them in accordance with UN resolutions. Now to manufacture an excuse for military action the US & UK have fabricated reports claiming Iraq still has this or that or made new stuff since '97. This was their sole justification for war and with each passing day that claim has been proved to be foundationless. The findings of the new report are possibly the final nail in the arguments coffin.

I was just passing on something I had been told and would do the same again every time.

What happened to...

...I do not allow myself to be influenced by secondary sources of information.

 

[Spirit]

ok id just like to put my hand up to being condescending here, which is naughty as i always moan at thuring for it.

sorry.

Acknowledged

As I've said, neither of our arguments can, or probably will be ever proved. You cannot prove there were never WMD in Iraq as if there were they are gone now, and likewise I cannot prove there were at some point. It's pretty much a pointless debate which is why I didn't see the point in bringing this thread back up in the first place.

I'm keeping my mind open to the fact there may have been WMD at some point, it's up to you if you won't recognise that possibility.

and asking you what more do you need for you to say the same? you cant answer, because you cant admit you were foolish for saying what you did originally.

I don't need anything more. I'm not saying I definitely think there were WMD before the war, I'm just saying the possibility is still open that there were. You have proof that there are no WMD there now which I fully accept, but how you can take that as proof there were none 1 year ago, or 2 year, or even 5 I cannot understand.

 

[Spirit]

For some1 that claimed to know so much on the subject u deliver so little.

I’ve never claimed to be an expert on the subject lol

Now to manufacture an excuse for military action the US & UK have fabricated reports claiming Iraq still has this or that or made new stuff since '97. This was their sole justification for war and with each passing day that claim has been proved to be foundationless. The findings of the new report are possibly the final nail in the arguments coffin.

Although I agree with much of the above and there clearly has been an element of fabrication and lies, but it hasn’t been proved to be foundationless. It hasn’t been proved to be correct either, but no-one has yet proved that Iraq didn’t manufacture new weapons in the past few years.

I’d hardly call a Wing Commander at Strike Command a secondary source of information either And regardless I wasn’t influenced by the information. My mind remains open to all possibilities until either one of them is proved 100% incorrect, or one is proved 100% correct. In this case, no theory has been proved either yet.

 

[Rich]

When I saw the news last night I was wondering how long it would be before this thread was dug up, and so it should. my reasons as stated before still remain the same purely selfish and so far unjustified paranoia on my part, though I do see a good that has come out of it and that is NOT having Saddam in power, though the US in power in Iraq is a lesser of 2 evils isn’t much less.

One thing that I mentioned in my first post were the bluffs the Government was pulling on us , this Government has done nothing but down right lie to us from before it was in power, it is without doubt THE most corrupt lying spinning government to date imho and I would imagine there are a huge amount of us who feel lied to and utterly sickened by what a government WE voted in has done to us and for us and on our behalf, the last straw was last night news that basically our servicemen were sent and killed for fuck all other than to hold hand with the US.
At least with the Tories you knew what you had.

But back to the subject I personally feel that we have been utterly lied to, I think the removal of saddam from a perspective of the people of Iraq was a good thing but as I said before DONT FUCKING LIE TO US AND SAY IT FOR WMD.

Incidentally a friend of mine from the M.O.D. in Malvern was here today and he is fucking livid that a Wing commander from strike command is giving out any information about reasons etc about Iraq....

 

[Spirit]

Agree with pretty much everything said by Rich, other than

he is fucking livid that a Wing commander from strike command is giving out any information about reasons etc about Iraq

if you read the posts I made you will actually see that he didn't give out any confidential or secret information, merely said that there was more proof that was released into the public sector. Well anyone with two brain cells can figure out a government isn't gonna release all of their top secret evidence into the public frame anyway so it's hardly anything worth getting livid over

 

[BBStr@nge]

What Rich said.


+ my opinion
Was for money. Pure and Simple.
Liars and Murderers.

 

[Rich]

"I have access to information directly from RAF Strike Command. Obviously the majority of information is top secret and doesn't leave Strike Command, however I can at least be given indications of situations"

"and I have been told from our RAF Strike Command that there is more evidence than has been released"

i dont wanna get pedantic and if we are gonna have a discusion about this then it should go in PM i guess

BUT those 2 statement do make it sound as tho you have been privy to sensitive info.

"Well anyone with two brain cells can figure out a government isn't gonna release all of their top secret evidence into the public frame anyway so it's hardly anything worth getting livid over"

anyone with more than 2 braincells .. say a Phd who works in the M.O.D. who is day after day trying to find ways to stop sensitive info from getting into the public hand and endangering peoples lives will and rightly so get livid about it.

anyway this is off topic so i guess we should take it to PM.

 

[Alf Roberts]

I think what we have here is that Spirit `sexed up' what he was told...

Sorry, had to get that 1 in

 

[BBStr@nge]

[Spirit]I was told some information by a reliable source in the RAF.

L0L are u having a laff? Was it one of the Wrens?
No wonder allied troops kill their own if we have dumb-nuts giving out "sensitive" (for sensitive read-bollox,flannel,make-believe whatever) to Joe civvy.

Are u Mi6 or summat m8?
If you open a door in your house are there masked Ninja's fighting?

C'mon say it's a joke, pls before laughter leads to aperplexy and possibly death

 

[Rich]

hmm i shouldnt have added my comment as its lead to this and as so Spirit will obviously deffend himself and rightly so

There isnt anything laughable about people in the forces at ANY level bieng in discreet about sensitive info it happens all the time and has done for a 100 years
the phrase "loose lips sink ships" comes from it and "carless words cost lives"
so Spirit shouldnt be mocked as its more than likely true BUT what i was saying is that my friend who is the basian of "i carnt say" was anoyed at the fact it happens so often, now i dont even know what his possition is BUT id hassard a guess it to do with security issues or secure comms etc from the way he talks.


so please get back to the discussion and not wheter spirit is privy to info or if you belive it or not.

 

[Spirit]

@ Rich, pm'd ya to clarify m8.

@ Alf, I didn't sex anything up lol, my post may have been a bit vague but I certainly didn’t add anything on to the info I passed on.

@ BB if you haven't got anything constructive to say fuck off back to chit chat, you clearly haven't read half or even most of the posts here and just taken one phrase comeplety out of context - grow up.

Can an admin please sort out the posts that are relevant to the debate and those that aren't?

 

[BBStr@nge]

Like you telling me 2 fuck off?
who has thrown their toys out their pram exactly?
I did read all of the previous posts.
RAF Strikeforce - who sounds like they need to grow up?

 

[Spirit]

RAF Strikeforce??? What's that? guess you haven't read all the posts cos that ain't a phrase anyone's mentioned yet. Strike Command however is an particular division the RAF so quite why I need to grow up for mentioning that is beyond me.

I told you to fuck off because some people are trying to have a serious debate here and childish ignorant posts like yours just get in the way so take the hint and crawl back in your hole so the rest of us can get on with it.

 

[Rich]

OK
take it to PM guys not here anymore

Thanx Rich

 

[dog]

Now, the real big question is: who isnt being childish in this thread then?

fs, get off it

 

[Joko]

Why not send in a crack SAS 4 man assassin team followed by a regiment of gurkhas to get the fucker

 

[Joko]

@ BB if you haven't got anything constructive to say fuck off back to chit chat, you clearly haven't read half or even most of the posts here and just taken one phrase comeplety out of context - grow up.

/me reads this and then reads above reply

/me runz before bwig bwad dwave get m3h!

 

[Spirit]

Here is an interesting and new angle on the whole WMD situation.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12808438,00.html

Mr Kay is expected to say Saddam may have pretended that he had distributed WMDs to his most loyal commanders in a bid to deter an invasion.

So it's possible Sadam fed false information to Allied forces which convinced them he did have WMD when he didn't really. This scenario would explain why nothing has been found yet when initial intelligence suggested it would be, and also justify (to a certain extent) the decision to invade being made on the grounds that Sadam had WMD therefore needed stopping.

IF this was the case it would of been a very foolish move by Sadam imho as saying that would only ever inspire the allied forces to push harder for his removal.

[DISCLAIMER]By posting this scenario I am not saying this is what I now believed happened or that I have used this article to form a specific opinion, just that it is another possibility to consider that hasn't been mentioned yet[/DISCLAIMER]