[Dutch] elections

[BRaiNRaiN]

Wednesday it's time for us to vote again. I'm just curious what you dutch people are gonna vote.

Anyways i'm gonna vote SP(Socialistic Party)! Why?

Mainly for one reason that might sound a lil communistic to some ears, but:
I think it's stupid that people who do 'physical work' and damage their bodies with it, get less money than the people who do 'mental work'. The first group have ruined their bodies and are more likely to have more physical problems, when they get older. In first instance people study a certain thing to get a job they like, not to get more money. That's not a primary reason why u study. Besides not everyone is blessed with a good brain. Or parents who can afford it, to get u to the best universities.

how about you?

 

[deadly]

Wednesday it's time for us to vote again. I'm just curious what you dutch people are gonna vote.

Anyways i'm gonna vote SP(Socialistic Party)! Why?

Mainly for one reason that might sound a lil communistic to some ears, but:
I think it's stupid that people who do 'physical work' and damage their bodies with it, get less money than the people who do 'mental work'. The first group have ruined their bodies and are more likely to have more physical problems, when they get older. In first instance people study a certain thing to get a job they like, not to get more money. That's not a primary reason why u study. Besides not everyone is blessed with a good brain. Or parents who can afford it, to get u to the best universities.

how about you?

CDA or VVD. People don't get paid here by the amount of physical work / mental work (whatever u mean by that) they do. Salary rises or lowers by having more or less responsibilities. Yes, having responsibility is relatively, but that's how it works in this country; and most of the time this works out really fair.
You don't need a good brain either - people who are less intelligent than people studying on an university don't need to work in the building-sector or where ever you need to use your body more than your brains. Studies have shown that they don't want to start in companies at a low-paying position, just because working on the street pays a bit more, not thinking about getting promotions in the future.
In the Netherlands your work is a choice. Esspecially now when there are more jobs than (good) employees.

The SP is going way too fast around the corner (lol at translating a dutch saying) with saying that people who do physical work must have a higher salary. No, they don't. Why? Their responsibility is zero. They already get payed more than they should be payed just looking at what they do.
Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[Menace]

Still floating around.

SP or PvdA probably, although it really seems to me that the SP has many wonderful ideas about how to spend money (eg more social security) but absolutely no clue about the rest of the economy.
One thing that does have to change are the ludicrous salaries for the white collar business-criminal assholes who get paid more, no matter how much they fuck up.

So I really don't have an idea what to vote on, according to the 'stemwijzer' I don't really agree with any current party, and even the parties I have a highest match with seem to have completely different ways of thinking about the things which really matter to me.

 

[JACKEL]

Cda, because if there is gonna be a left government, they'll spent all the money wich we all saved up for later.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

People don't get paid here by the amount of physical work / mental work (whatever u mean by that) they do. Salary rises or lowers by having more or less responsibilities. Yes, having responsibility is relatively, but that's how it works in this country; and most of the time this works out really fair.

In theory ur right, except that it just happens. U ever seen someone with an easy (mental) job, but with hard physical conditions (such as aroadworkers) get paid more than an avg. offiice working man? (i'm not talking about the helpdesk kinda job here). I certainly haven't. Besides that responsibilities are only relative. Higher personal, dont get fired easilier. Besides if they get fired, the chance of getting a new job with similar tasks is higher than lower-ranked personal.

They already get payed more than they should be payed just looking at what they do.

Are u serious? Without these people, this country would never have gotten this far. And u suggest, that they don't work hard enough? I've been on both sides of this matter (I work during holidays in a greenhouse, where i have to do much physical work and I've worked on an office, where I have done alot of mental work) and i really really think that people that work physically should get paid more, than what they get now.
Don't get me misunderstood. Im not a person that does not permit someone a good job with a nice salary, but i really want to see that the differences between these 2 groups should get smaller.

Anyways I've been a socialist for my entire life and im not one of those people who just vote for the SP, becoz they are more popular now, no. In my opinion even the SP, was better when they didnt change their party points on the UN etc. I really hope that with the SP in the parliament, that we finally get rid of the slimey, sticky behaviour of this parliament towards the United States. No offence, but I really think that we can survive without them!

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Oh one more think that concerns me. The election contest seems to be all about economy. But what's that worth without some dry feet to stand on?

 

[deadly]

In theory ur right, except that it just happens. U ever seen someone with an easy (mental) job, but with hard physical conditions (such as aroadworkers) get paid more than an avg. offiice working man? (i'm not talking about the helpdesk kinda job here). I certainly haven't. Besides that responsibilities are only relative. Higher personal, dont get fired easilier. Besides if they get fired, the chance of getting a new job with similar tasks is higher than lower-ranked personal.

And? Do you think office work isn't tuff? Please get a grip on this ffs. They might not use their BODY as much as the working class you stand up for, but its a very exhausting job when it comes to thinking (yes, that can be exhausting), learning, working together, meetings, traveling, stress (responsabilities = stress (eg. burnouts)), etc. Using you strenght is something ANYONE can do, and THATS the difference. I'm not saying those people are worth less in my eyes, no ofcourse not. Every human being is unique and has its own qualities. Some people are given better brains than the other, and earn more money, because they do jobs others can't do (the less people that can replace you, the more you get payed (another rule in the working sector)). This rule also implicates that people who can be replaced easily, can also be fired more easily.

Are u serious? Without these people, this country would never have gotten this far. And u suggest, that they don't work hard enough? I've been on both sides of this matter (I work during holidays in a greenhouse, where i have to do much physical work and I've worked on an office, where I have done alot of mental work) and i really really think that people that work physically should get paid more, than what they get now.
Don't get me misunderstood. Im not a person that does not permit someone a good job with a nice salary, but i really want to see that the differences between these 2 groups should get smaller.

Yes, i am serious. And no, i didnt say they dont work hard enough (no clue where u got that from). With what they do i meant the form of work they do. It's a pisseasy straightforward job, that anyone could do. No responsabilities (their supervisors have that), easy work from 07:00 - 16:00, etc. It's something u don't get paid much for, and imo thats totally fair. I think the gradation mental <-> physical work is a bit stupid aswell. There's no such thing as mental or physical only work. Every job has its own aspects of mental and physical inpact. SP just uses this as a tool to get the workers to vote for them imo, theres no real sense behind this all.

 

[masterrr]

whats the use of making the vote public?

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

so i can see if foreign people voted on a dutch party
that's all

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

As i've said pete, ive done both kinda things and i know what's tougher.
I also know that mental work is also tough, but in a different way. Except that can be solved by a good nights sleep. Injuries aren't!

can you tell me what the physical impacts of a daily job in an office is? can't think of anything.. Especially not with the laws concerning working places. Everything has to be perfect.

Oh and you think that people that do roadworking or similar jobs, dont have stress?

 

[deadly]

As i've said pete, ive done both kinda things and i know what's tougher.
I also know that mental work is also tough, but in a different way. Except that can be solved by a good nights sleep. Injuries aren't!

can you tell me what the physical impacts of a daily job in an office is? can't think of anything.. Especially not with the laws concerning working places. Everything has to be perfect.

Oh and you think that people that do roadworking or similar jobs, dont have stress?

1) Are you serious? Ignorance has and will always be bliss. People with busy 'office'-jobs (whatever nickname you want to give it) can be under constant stress, deadlines, meetings, travel, problems, etc. This causes alot of problems in families, burnouts, even physical problems (heart attacks, high blood pressure, kidney failure, etc.) because of being under stress. This might not be muscle / bone-related; different work, different problems. And you're saying that this can be solved with some good nights filled with sleep? Get a grip mate, this is one of the major problems in the netherlands which costs ALOT of money.

2) Yes, i think that people that do roadworking, have another kind of stress than people with jobs with more responsabilities. The people working there have no responsabilities (the only thing they have to do is do their job - the planning, finishing, responsability to other parties is at their superviser; no concerns there) to take care of and therefore are just able to 'do their jobs', go home, and go back to work the next day. I have had enough discussions with people working in the classes you're talking about too, and they were all aware of doing a straightforward job. They just wanted to have more money to raise their standard of living - which i can understand.

Wanting more money to raise your livingstandard is a totally different point of view and a totally different discussion. I wouldn't mind a total raise of livingstandards in the netherlands, but doing that under the excuse that they do a physical and breaking job just pisses me off.

 

[TuT]

People should get paid for the responsibility they take, the knowledge and experience they have about the subject and how energetic they are in doing the kinda work they are paid to do. It should definetly not be based on whether it´s a physical job or and office job.

 

[Shinon`]

PVDA i vote... mainly because the rest looks even more bollox, and i'm an ANTI-CDA'er

 

[JACKEL]

PVDA i vote... mainly because the rest looks even more bollox, and i'm an ANTI-CDA'er

why

 

[pykenike]

VVD no doubt. Turha is right with his point.. why should someone study for like 12 years when he doesn't get much more payed as let's say a garbageman... you have to make the trigger big enough.

We live in a county where we can't concurate with those asian/african countrys. in terms of easy work. thus we should concentrate on high standard jobs. when you don't pay enough in that segment people will eventually go to another country to work. which isn't good imo

Also people should be helped when they can't work or summin.. but people who can need to get much more triggers to work... they actually should get a little to less to live good.. so they go working again

About the intigration thingy.. Verdonk does a great job.. people should adept when getting to another county and have a good reason to escape from there country.. we simply can't let them all in because that's way to expensive

oh and balkie is a good prime minister

 

[Shinon`]

why

because, CDA only wants to invest in stuff (childcare, older people, pre-school, teachers) but they don't tell where they'll get it from, because they also want to lower the taxes since when did our goverment became rich enough to invest in stuff w/o taking money first?
also i don't find them saying anything about the stuff going in Iraq and Afghanistan, PVDA does (CDA doesn't want to say anything about Iraq especially, nor are they asking questions about it... )

PVDA has 3 points which interest me:

- Respect for eachother (they want to grab those which 'aso' behaviour')
- They want to invest in a clean energy (sun/wind/water)
- International safety...

they interest me because it doens't only count for me, but it's important for generations that will follow us...

 

[deadly]

Where did Turha write anything? I don't see him making any point here

 

[JACKEL]

because, CDA only wants to invest in stuff (childcare, older people, pre-school, teachers) but they don't tell where they'll get it from, because they also want to lower the taxes since when did our goverment became rich enough to invest in stuff w/o taking money first?
also i don't find them saying anything about the stuff going in Iraq and Afghanistan, PVDA does (CDA doesn't want to say anything about Iraq especially, nor are they asking questions about it... )

PVDA has 3 points which interest me:

- Respect for eachother (they want to grab those which 'aso' behaviour')
- They want to invest in a clean energy (sun/wind/water)
- International safety...

they interest me because it doens't only count for me, but it's important for generations that will follow us...

well i agree with you on the whole iraq and afghan thing i think thats ridiculous aswell
But we had big "bezuinigingen" the last 4 year, and now we are a bit profitable again.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

About the intigration thingy.. Verdonk does a great job.. people should adept when getting to another county and have a good reason to escape from there country.. we simply can't let them all in because that's way to expensive

Yea she did a great job with sending innocent kids to prison and seperating them from their parents and their other million mistakes she made in the last 4 years!

anyways the most discussed point in this topic, is something we probably never agree on.

 

[deadly]

Yea she did a great job with sending innocent kids to prison and seperating them from their parents and their other million mistakes she made in the last 4 years!

anyways the most discussed point in this topic, is something we probably never agree on.

It's easy to spot the mistakes someone makes, its harder to see the benefits of a used strategy, whether u agree with it or not. She didnt make a million mistakes, and she didnt send innocent kids to prison and she didnt seperate them from their parents. Thats the whole point. The kids belong to their parents and therefore are 'guilty'. She put them in jail because she didnt want to seperate them from their parents at any cost, because that is even WORSE for children than being in jail with their parents. It's a sad situation that kids are getting paid for what their parents have done wrong, but it just is that way.
You are basically saying that the children shouldn't be in prison. Well, the parents obviously aren't welcome here, OR did something wrong, OR have to be send back to their own countries for other reasons - do you want the kids not to be in jail? Sure, seperate them from their parents, and watch the kids being happy not to be in jail