Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

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Well RoTTeD, maybe you should start by defining Satanism then, since you obviously don't follow any known branch of Satanism. It's sort of hard to argue with anyone if they don't have any boundaries to act by.

Much like playing tag with a person who says "Anti-quitsies, you're it, quitsies, no anti-quitsies, no startsies" after he hits you.

Also, you claim to hate Nazi's, who generalised a certain group of people for who they were and what they believed in, and you hate them (the Nazi's) for who they were, but also hate Christians in a similar way? Aaahahahahaha. No really. Have you any idea how full of shit you sound to others?
 
Finally, you gave your take on one of the first things that i brought up. Well done, you've actually made some progress.

So now we have two differing views on why god came to be in our conciousness. I think that people naming using god as a reason things work is pretty obvious, i mean ffs the greeks did it.. although you seem to still want to deny this, or did i miss the bit where you haven't?

Whereas you think that you can feel a god's presence, awesome.. well done

Now, can you see why i wanted to bring up the other view? Maybe because i dont feel what you do about the presence of an entity - this requires faith

ironically, in the first part FAO gen, you said you had to make assumptions.. then next you critiscise me for doing the same thing, if you know your location is listed as USA, which would suggest, at least as a first guess, that you are in fact american, so well done for being a hypocritical asshole.. pld

I think its quite obvious where your logic fails in the monkey analogy - its that you refuse to think that people use gods to explain things.. which seems comepletely devoid of any historical backing, whereas what i am saying.. is kinda backed by the greeks, romans, egyptians.. etc

I won't carry on as you don't seem able to reply to more than you thing at a time

good luck

forgot to mention - drop the condescending holy-than-thou act please.. i find it quite obnoxious
 
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Lmao Uzi, I don't get why you keep coming back in the first place, and go on with your childish insults and comments.
Anyway, I addressed your points in what, 3 posts already, but I guess it takes 3 or 4 for you to manage to read one. Funny thing is you're still deeply confused on your point lol, you just keep coming back to it. Yes, people use god as a reason, and use love, hate, feelings, thoughts , logic etc etc as a reason things work too, and that means???
In case you can't see the irony yourself, you addressed me as the standard american/christian repeatedly, with a bunch of insults following it, and it is quite funny you can generalize that way without having a clue.
Again, ready my words please, I do not police how people use god, it is their own right, what you can't seem to get is that how someone uses this god has nothing to do with god's existence in the first place. Hey, fine, hopefully sitting down later and thinking about it u will get it. Until then, can you please hold to your words for once in 4 posts lol?
 
omfg, youre so up your own arse its unbelieveable

you gave so many insulting and flatulant answers over the other posts.. then you finally wrote it in non-gibberish in the last one, so drop all your insulting crap

And just because you know what you are trying to say, doesn't mean that anyone else does. I think this is half the reason for my frustration with you.. you just don't seem to get it, either that or you refuse to acknowledge anything other than your own view point. Which is a very typical thing to do for a christian (and quite an american trait.. which is another reason for my jump to the conclusion)

I on the other hand, do agree that the fact that things done in the name of god being bad doesn't immediately mean that god does no exist. Although, the lack of any evidence whatsoever for the existence is a pretty good one alongside it.

In fact, the only way to convince yourself to believe in god is to just have faith.. hrmm.. i gotta say.. im sold

Back to what i said about it being a mental illness.. If someone says they hear voices in their head, its called schizophrenia. But if someone thinks god is speaking to them, its not... hrmm? (see video posted by Gen for details :))

How about the bible being 2000 years old.. there has been nothing more since this as a gospel of god.. its a little out of touch with today's society.. maybe time for god to give a new gospel.. not. gonna. happen. why? THERES NO GOD!

I'll tone down a bit now.. i do think the bible is a nice book of stories, and has some good lessons (as well as some bad ones.. eg your view on homosexuality is an abomination IMO.. i suspect you hold similar views on abortion and stem cells.. please tell me if you dont - in fact.. please suprise me, somehow i doubt you will). However, it is just that, a book of stories.. written a long time ago, which has most likely been edited again and again by people who were out to use it for their own gain - yes im talking about the church.

Finally, you said this:

"The third point…”I try to live life as an honest and good guy, does that make me religious?” No, it doesn’t. On the other hand, your idea of being an honest and good guy could very well mean killing someone and getting his money, in the end that ends up being good for you too. In order for someone to understand correctly his own actions, he has to search for the truth, seek knowledge and recognize ethical and spiritual values. There are things that are not easy to reach, and guide lines in books and literature provide a way to help you in your quest. Unfortunately most people think they know enough, when they don’t even have a grasp on reality."

and

"To me god personifies love, truth and absolute knowledge"

So.. what you seem to be saying here, is that without faith in god, people are not able to make good moral decisions. Or learn things without god to guide them? Bollocks m8

I think its you who has no grasp on reality.

(could say a lot more here.. but i dont think its needed)

I had thought you might be someone worthy of a discusson on the whys and why nots of there being a god (granted i did enter the thread to take the piss originally, but my tone changed largely), but i think this is impossible with you due to the usual problems with such debate. You're an intelligent guy.. but must have had god/religion drilled into you from a young age.. or have "found god" due to something bad happening to you at some point in life. I think whichever has clouded your judgement severely. I'm out

bye

PS I bet you either voted, or would have voted bush :P (again, im assuming you really do live in the USA.. im sorry for thinking you may have been honest in filling out your profile.. or did god tell you not too???? :S)
 
there are many different religious beliefs, present and past, and they simply reflect the psychological/spiritual state of the people at the time, or their life philosophy, it has nothing to do with the fact that God exists.

Satanists identify with a deity or god that guides them in free thought etc this includes the darkest of thought to explore them in your mind and decide for yourself what should and shouldn’t be done it isn’t about evil and such like if people look past the popular misconceptions and read just a small amount of information about it (not lavay shite) then they would know its not necessarily a negative evil religion its as much about spirituality and enlightenment as any other just from a different more personal angle to my knowledge each Satanist is in some ways their own god. I have to admit I don’t know much about it but from what I have read that’s the conclusion I have made.

Homosexuality:
Yes, I believe that is an abomination, and while someone might think that means an evil, terrible thing that must be annihilated at once, to me it simply means it’s a sickness, un-natural thing that can be healed and cared for.

I think that is a very intolerant and patronising thing to say if two adults find love with each other then why is that a sickness and why is it un-natural?


I do not think anybody can argue that behaviour is natural, you simply have to look at all aspects of life around you to understand that.

I think the argument for this behaviour is in your second sentence.

Sadly, now it seems if someone can afford to sponsor a campaign to make something, no matter its purpose, as simply “a right to do”, and people love to blame anything they apparently have no control of (birth, genes, blood….) to justify their actions to get rid of responsibility, we are witnessing the gradual decay of all ethical/social values.

These words have been used before in propaganda to justify some of the most vile crimes in the last 100 years they are truly scary words because they shout intolerance.
Letting black people have contact with white children was seen as against ethical and social values people were hung for it. Having mixed race schools was seen as a decay of ethical/social values. Jewry in National Socialist Germany was seen as a decay of ethical and social values the list goes on and on … I personally think intolerance is a decay to moral social values ,much in the same way language evolves so do attitudes and morals, Victorian ladies that showed their ankles were immoral, society changes this goes hand in hand with my own personal philosophy in life ….

This will sound daft to most people but I don’t care as Its my take on life and most people don’t take anytime to actually think about it anyway.

I am not a being I am a becoming (how very philosophical of me lol most people laugh when i say this so im used to it)

Everyday I learn everyday I change everyday I discover everyday I receive

Some people are purly transmitters that is they take what they think is right and tell that to others, other people receive information look at it digest it and continue to receive growing in understanding.

Anyway back the point

Being a homosexual does not make you a sick person it does not make you a bad person. Living life in a positive and enlightening way is as you have said what is important and believe it or not homosexuals are very capable or living their lives in that way.
It saddens me that you think this way tbh as you are clearly able to think in a far more broad-minded fashion from reading your previous posts.



There have already been groups asking recognition of sex between adults and children, man and animals and all other sick stuff, and there is more to come. This is what happens when complete moral disarray exists. I would gladly explore this more on its own thread.

I have to agree that sex between an adult and child or animal I find disgusting much in the same way you find homosexuality but there is a far stronger case for finding an adult abusing a baby or child sickening then an adult having a relationship with another adult.

As an aside
If a man of 25 has a relationship with a 15 year old he is a paedophile
if you roll that relationship on 1 year and they are still happily together is he still a paedophile?
Roll it on 5 years they have a home and a child a loving relationship and a successful marriage is he still a paedophile?
It’s a strange thing to think about because at first its disgusting in all our eyes but at what point is that relationship acceptable?

I’m not saying anyone has an answer to that as I don’t know myself it’s just an interesting moral dilemma.

Going back to my previous point about who decides etc I understand what you are saying my point was more focused on the points raised in the original post and flatus response I have to take issue with how things are interpreted as this is the argument for people to fly planes into buildings and suicide bombings etc but Muslim friends of mine do not interpret the Koran in the same way so I find it difficult to understand strict and moderate followers, fundamentalists and latent religious followers.

Does that make sense im sorry if it doesn’t but I cant think of a better way of saying it.


I think I should say that im not looking for a point to be proven right or wrong

Do I believe in a supreme being of some kind .. I don’t know
Do I think religion is the root of all evil… yes I do I think it has huge amounts to answer for.

Do I think there is an afterlife .. unfortunately not to use quote from dead poets we are food for worms.

Do I think im right … nope I don’t think I am I just have what I belive and ill see if im right or wrong when the time comes.

Do I think religion, belief can be a positive thing … yes I do I think if people find strength and happiness though their religion then that’s a good thing.

Do I want to have someone else’s religious morals forced on me .. no id prefer to make up my own mind as to what is right and wrong.

do i contradict myself ... yes i do and thats simply because the whole issue is full of contradiction

For me this was never an argument it was a discussion to find out some information im really not arsed about what camp people sit in and whether its right or wrong ..
Everyone has been so busy trying to say im right your wrong that they missed the one good thing thats in every sensible post in this thread and that is that no matter what you believe or religion you follow etc the individual postie is basically saying the same thing that they try to live a positive enlightening life in some way or another whose right .. I don’t think thats the right question

Anyway im tired and again ive just spewed a lot of thought out on my laptop.
 
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Rich said:
Satanists identify with a deity or god that guides them in free thought etc this includes the darkest of thought to explore them in your mind and decide for yourself what should and shouldn’t be done it isn’t about evil and such like if people look past the popular misconceptions and read just a small amount of information about it (not lavay shite) then they would know its not necessarily a negative evil religion its as much about spirituality and enlightenment as any other just from a different more personal angle to my knowledge each Satanist is in some ways their own god. I have to admit I don’t know much about it but from what I have read that’s the conclusion I have made.

At least somebody that has read somth about the theme.
 
Oh. My. God.

I cant believe you people are having a religious arguement and didnt invite me.

Much though I would love to spend the next hour here, I wanna go to bed soon, so I will summarize with the following :

Anyone who claims to be a christian who hasnt read their bible from start to finish shouldn't call themselves a christian.

Its easy to find "love" and "peace" and so on within the bible, and the majority of priests and pastors can trot it out week after week literally for ever without touching on the rest.

The rest that includes a fair whack of the "Dr Laura" questions. (I love that story.).
How about rape, slaughter of children, infant genital mutalation. Violence, abusive treatment of women, the bible is filled with hate. Not to mention sheer nonsense like if goats have sex while looking at straight up and down reeds will have kids with stripes. Or that rabbits chew the cud. Or bats are birds.

I was on the verge of becoming a born again christian when I figured I should actually read the bible so I could dedicate my life to it properly.

Thank fuck I did.

Reading the bible from start to finish left me with the conclusion that if god did exist, he was no better than a child with a bad temper. at best he was plain evil. If he existed, he did not deserve worshipping.

Over time, and let me tell you it was one of the hardest conclusions I ever came to, but over time I realised it was all (to quote Penn and Teller) Bullshit!.

Do yourself a favour and read your bible all the way through before thinking that god is about love. He really isnt.
 
Don't bother replying back Sq cause the last things they'll do is get personal like Uzi is & have been taken in by the mass media, etc. They have gotten to radical in it all & may only realize it by the time they have left on this planet. All I got to say now is may God take pity on their souls. :wave:
 
U2 - God Part II


Don't believe the devil
I don't believe his book
But the truth is not the same
Without the lies he made up

Don't believe in excess
Success is to give
Don't believe in riches
But you should see where I live
I...I believe in love

Don't believe in forced entry
Don't believe in rape
But every time she passes by
Wild thoughts escape
I don't believe in death row
Skid row or the gangs
Don't believe in the Uzi
It just went off in my hand
I...I believe in love

Don't believe in cocaine
Got a speed-ball in my head
I could cut and crack you open
Do you hear what I said
Don't believe them when they tell me
There ain't no cure
The rich stay healthy
The sick stay poor
I...I believe in love

Don't believe in Goldman
His type like a curse
Instant karma's going to get him
If I don't get him first
Don't believe in rock 'n' roll
Can really change the world
As it spins in revolution
It spirals and turns
I...I believe in love

Don't believe in the 60's
The golden age of pop
You glorify the past
When the future dries up

Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
I...I believe in love

I feel like I'm falling
Like I'm spinning on a wheel
It always stops beside of me
With a presence I can feel
I...I believe in love

cheerio!
lamz
 
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Flatus said:
Don't bother replying back Sq cause the last things they'll do is get personal like Uzi is & have been taken in by the mass media, etc. They have gotten to radical in it all & may only realize it by the time they have left on this planet. All I got to say now is may God take pity on their souls. :wave:

*cough*

I have not been taken in by any mass media.

I have read the christian holy book, the bible, and I betcha you havent. Seriously, from start, to finish. I would suggest the NIV version, its a bit hard going, but nowhere near as bad as the King James one. The Good News and so on are not very good.
 
Great to see so many people getting excited by some things that others have said in this day and age, right here within UTA forums.
:thumb: I'm with you guys, all of you.;)
 
Oh. My. God.

I cant believe you people are having a religious arguement and didnt invite me.

Reading the bible from start to finish left me with the conclusion that if god did exist, he was no better than a child with a bad temper. at best he was plain evil.


I love the reference to GODnALLHisDEVILS there Jenn ;)


Edit:typo, well it made me laugh.
 
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I stopped reading about page 3 and skimmed a bit of page 4. Just imagine a world without religion... heaven? ;)
 
Don't bother replying back Sq cause the last things they'll do is get personal like Uzi is & have been taken in by the mass media, etc. They have gotten to radical in it all & may only realize it by the time they have left on this planet. All I got to say now is may God take pity on their souls.


i forgot about this thread its a shame it died on its arse obviously SQ took Flatus advice but has Flatus even considered that he has been taken in by his religion?
 
Wow... didn't see this when it took off, hope I'm not too late :chainsaw:

Squirrel said:
blindly following media/culture rolemodels/howtos in life

Surely you cannot be serious. The modern church is one of the biggest propagaters of the media, and in some ways are eerily similar. It is the media that shocks us with the bad and hides us from the truth, which in turn makes us all feel like a better class of citizen than that guy in the newspaper who stole 2 grand from LIDL. It makes us feel, as a whole, that we are doing 'the right thing'. For example the current war and terrorist situation. Do we feel, as a whole, feel like we're correct? Yup. Who tells us? The media.. TV, news papers etc etc!

The media makes us seem like we are doomed everyday of our lives. Certain newspapers, for example the Daily Mail here in the UK, concentrate almost entirely with shock headlines like we're all going to die from global warming, terrorists are going to kill us etc etc. Surely this must scare people into buying their newspaper, right?

And by contemporaneously featuring uplifting, seemingly morally right stories about helping each other, community spirit and loving thy neighbour, the media can keep people on this fine balance of only just being a good citizen and dare I say it: only just surviving.

Sound familiar?

Squirrel said:
First off, i aint gotta back shit up.. no one else has..

Doesn't the bible say that god is with each and every one of us? And that he helps us to spread the word of the lord? Surely people like Uzi need the most help in finding god, then? So where was he when you wrote that?
 
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-CrackKing- said:
Doesn't the bible say that god is with each and every one of us? And that he helps us to spread the word of the lord? Surely people like Uzi need the most help in finding god, then? So where was he when you wrote that?

If people are gonna have a genuine conversation backing everything up please do, but its remarks like that, that trivialise it, your all as bad as each other! Everyones human mate, you know that, if we were all on the ball 100% of the time, we would be an image of God, but we can only strive for that.