Why Can't I Own a Canadian?
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Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Uzi, though I welcome your change of tone somewhat, I again am disappointed in how you address the issue. I will not keep it long this time, because I do not want people to think we’re going into circles, when it’s clear you are simply ignoring almost everything I already said.
I will get straight to the most obvious point. After three posts, though I guess first one didn’t count, you failed to even read one of my main concerns from the beginning (I am not sure if you even read the posts at this point, or to what degree), in how you identify this concept of religion you have with God. Only after entering everything, you finally somehow realized it, and then simply went ahead and edited with the one liner theory of “…no, no no…it would lose to the explanations of science, etc” (and how is that??), without even addressing my point on this and no backing up whatsoever
Next, I had my math degree 6 years ago, does that mean every argument I make is completely logical and true, no, I wish. I wonder if your degree had logic classes as prerequisites. Again, there is no relationship whatsoever in what uneducated or primitive people think is responsible for heat, and the metaphysical question on God’s existence., this includes dents, bumps etc. You are basically saying if we assume 1 + 1 = 3, but we also know 1 + 1 = 2, then 3 doesn’t exist (or has a big dent). You should really research on what the “idea of God” is in the first place before going out with these claims. It does however bear great importance on the false human “religion” concept, “religion” history and its followers’ actions, a point that I clearly stated several times but you just ignore it. You can keep banging on the old “…but this religious bla I knew stopped bla and killed bla and did this bad bla”, but that again is a complete flawed argument as to the nature of God, to state the obvious: a person’s actions are his own responsibility, and as much as people don’t like to admit it, it is true.
And finally, since you wanted to go to the personal side of it, before accusing any people of mental illnesses, I suggest you again learn how to make an argument “in reality they are just deluding themselves in something which probably doesn't exist”. You even admit the probability of existence in your own words, not to mention the fact that I have yet to read or hear irrefutable proof in science that God doesn’t exist, but of course to you that doesn’t matter, it’s easier to just call them mentally ill. I wonder what I should call you..
Please, for the sake of information, I would strongly encourage you to first read my posts seriously, make your research, and come back with well put arguments that address my concerns.
I will get straight to the most obvious point. After three posts, though I guess first one didn’t count, you failed to even read one of my main concerns from the beginning (I am not sure if you even read the posts at this point, or to what degree), in how you identify this concept of religion you have with God. Only after entering everything, you finally somehow realized it, and then simply went ahead and edited with the one liner theory of “…no, no no…it would lose to the explanations of science, etc” (and how is that??), without even addressing my point on this and no backing up whatsoever
Next, I had my math degree 6 years ago, does that mean every argument I make is completely logical and true, no, I wish. I wonder if your degree had logic classes as prerequisites. Again, there is no relationship whatsoever in what uneducated or primitive people think is responsible for heat, and the metaphysical question on God’s existence., this includes dents, bumps etc. You are basically saying if we assume 1 + 1 = 3, but we also know 1 + 1 = 2, then 3 doesn’t exist (or has a big dent). You should really research on what the “idea of God” is in the first place before going out with these claims. It does however bear great importance on the false human “religion” concept, “religion” history and its followers’ actions, a point that I clearly stated several times but you just ignore it. You can keep banging on the old “…but this religious bla I knew stopped bla and killed bla and did this bad bla”, but that again is a complete flawed argument as to the nature of God, to state the obvious: a person’s actions are his own responsibility, and as much as people don’t like to admit it, it is true.
And finally, since you wanted to go to the personal side of it, before accusing any people of mental illnesses, I suggest you again learn how to make an argument “in reality they are just deluding themselves in something which probably doesn't exist”. You even admit the probability of existence in your own words, not to mention the fact that I have yet to read or hear irrefutable proof in science that God doesn’t exist, but of course to you that doesn’t matter, it’s easier to just call them mentally ill. I wonder what I should call you..
Please, for the sake of information, I would strongly encourage you to first read my posts seriously, make your research, and come back with well put arguments that address my concerns.
I'm not entirely sure what your "point" is to be honest squirrel... i havent once made the jump from god being made up to explain things to god doesnt exist.. those are assumptions you have made. I have many reasons for not believing in god, i'm simply attempting to dicuss one of them with you, but your only answer to my questions/ideas so far have been either to pick holes in the wording, or to say everything i say is completely illogical.
Now, I never entered the discussion you started tbh.. so i don't see how i could have even started to ignore your posts? I was simply giving my take on some part of religion (Note the first post is specifically about judaism).
Anyway, if you want to have a proper dicussion, lets start with the issue i raised.. even with my first drunken post, even if it was a little cryptic
:
would you care to explain to me where *you* think the idea of god came from?
My answer to this is, keeping it as basic as possible: Humans see things they cannot explain, and so their way of dealing with it is to say that there is a greater being, or god existing to make these things happen.
Another reason, and this is a question more likely posed by humans with a more advanced way of thinking, is that they wonder why they are on the planet? what is their purpose in life? How did humans come to exist? ie more philisophical, than just.. why/how things work
To me, i think saying that a god created them is a very easy way to answer the question. I think its a cop out.
Care to tell me why it isnt?
______
Note that this is a logical step as to why this would mean god doesn't exist.. If the idea of god is a man-made thing, then disgreeing with the reasons they had for the existance of god, is a fully logical reason for believing there is no god.
How you can tell me the idea of there being a god is not a man-made thing i don't know.. apart from with another faith based (IMO a cop out) arguement, which involves god giving signs, or speaking directly, or through a proxy, to humans.
______
Having typed all that, i should probs answer a few of your "points":
"I will get straight to the most obvious point. After three posts, though I guess first one didn’t count, you failed to even read one of my main concerns from the beginning (I am not sure if you even read the posts at this point, or to what degree), in how you identify this concept of religion you have with God. Only after entering everything, you finally somehow realized it, and then simply went ahead and edited with the one liner theory of “…no, no no…it would lose to the explanations of science, etc” (and how is that??), without even addressing my point on this and no backing up whatsoever"
First off, i aint gotta back shit up.. no one else has.. so lets drop that one eh?
How you can say that religion and god are not completely intertwined is beyond me. All of your arguements are that you simply disagree. Could you explain why I am wrong, instead of just telling me that i am.
You have simply skipped to the rough afterthought i stuck on the end.. What i was trying to say was that without religion spreading the message of the idea of god, the idea would eventually (im talking over the last 2000 or so years) have faded out, with people being able to properly explain many things that people could attribute to a god. I think you are overplaying the more philosophical ideas about god, and completely ignoring my point that people fear the unexplainable, and so like to turn to an easy answer.
"Next, I had my math degree 6 years ago, does that mean every argument I make is completely logical and true, no, I wish. I wonder if your degree had logic classes as prerequisites. Again, there is no relationship whatsoever in what uneducated or primitive people think is responsible for heat, and the metaphysical question on God’s existence., this includes dents, bumps etc. You are basically saying if we assume 1 + 1 = 3, but we also know 1 + 1 = 2, then 3 doesn’t exist (or has a big dent). You should really research on what the “idea of God” is in the first place before going out with these claims."
I disagree.. i think the origins of god have as much to do with people questioning their being, as they do with people fearing the unexplained - you're trying to dismiss my point using a very vague example i used to get the point across.. in fact are you sure you're not a politian?
"It does however bear great importance on the false human “religion” concept, “religion” history and its followers’ actions, a point that I clearly stated several times but you just ignore it. You can keep banging on the old “…but this religious bla I knew stopped bla and killed bla and did this bad bla”, but that again is a complete flawed argument as to the nature of God, to state the obvious: a person’s actions are his own responsibility, and as much as people don’t like to admit it, it is true."
Again.. see first post in thread.. doing things in the name of god is kinda what this is about.. you're the one ignoring things here.
"And finally, since you wanted to go to the personal side of it, before accusing any people of mental illnesses, I suggest you again learn how to make an argument “in reality they are just deluding themselves in something which probably doesn't exist”. You even admit the probability of existence in your own words, not to mention the fact that I have yet to read or hear irrefutable proof in science that God doesn’t exist, but of course to you that doesn’t matter, it’s easier to just call them mentally ill. I wonder what I should call you.."
That comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek. I am aware that americans are very unable to grasp satire, but you're on a mainly UK/euro populated board, so try and keep up? .. i know no insults 
I used probably, as certainty is something which doesnt really have a place in debates such as these.. although you seem happy to act as though you are certain.
About the proof of god not existing in science... got anything at all which even closely resembles a small shred of evidence of there being a god in existance? I sincerely doubt it..
Lastly, the closest idea of a god that i will remotely accept is that there may have been a being of some sort, which created the matter for the universe to begin (be it by "the big bang" or other ideas).. however i strongly doubt that the being would exist nowadays. But i somehow think your idea of a god is a long way away from this
You've skipped a hell of a lot of things i've raised too btw.. so get off your high horse m8y.. also what would you call your own "religion" or belief system? just out of interest
Now, I never entered the discussion you started tbh.. so i don't see how i could have even started to ignore your posts? I was simply giving my take on some part of religion (Note the first post is specifically about judaism).
Anyway, if you want to have a proper dicussion, lets start with the issue i raised.. even with my first drunken post, even if it was a little cryptic
:would you care to explain to me where *you* think the idea of god came from?
My answer to this is, keeping it as basic as possible: Humans see things they cannot explain, and so their way of dealing with it is to say that there is a greater being, or god existing to make these things happen.
Another reason, and this is a question more likely posed by humans with a more advanced way of thinking, is that they wonder why they are on the planet? what is their purpose in life? How did humans come to exist? ie more philisophical, than just.. why/how things work
To me, i think saying that a god created them is a very easy way to answer the question. I think its a cop out.
Care to tell me why it isnt?
______
Note that this is a logical step as to why this would mean god doesn't exist.. If the idea of god is a man-made thing, then disgreeing with the reasons they had for the existance of god, is a fully logical reason for believing there is no god.
How you can tell me the idea of there being a god is not a man-made thing i don't know.. apart from with another faith based (IMO a cop out) arguement, which involves god giving signs, or speaking directly, or through a proxy, to humans.
______
Having typed all that, i should probs answer a few of your "points":
"I will get straight to the most obvious point. After three posts, though I guess first one didn’t count, you failed to even read one of my main concerns from the beginning (I am not sure if you even read the posts at this point, or to what degree), in how you identify this concept of religion you have with God. Only after entering everything, you finally somehow realized it, and then simply went ahead and edited with the one liner theory of “…no, no no…it would lose to the explanations of science, etc” (and how is that??), without even addressing my point on this and no backing up whatsoever"
First off, i aint gotta back shit up.. no one else has.. so lets drop that one eh?
How you can say that religion and god are not completely intertwined is beyond me. All of your arguements are that you simply disagree. Could you explain why I am wrong, instead of just telling me that i am.
You have simply skipped to the rough afterthought i stuck on the end.. What i was trying to say was that without religion spreading the message of the idea of god, the idea would eventually (im talking over the last 2000 or so years) have faded out, with people being able to properly explain many things that people could attribute to a god. I think you are overplaying the more philosophical ideas about god, and completely ignoring my point that people fear the unexplainable, and so like to turn to an easy answer.
"Next, I had my math degree 6 years ago, does that mean every argument I make is completely logical and true, no, I wish. I wonder if your degree had logic classes as prerequisites. Again, there is no relationship whatsoever in what uneducated or primitive people think is responsible for heat, and the metaphysical question on God’s existence., this includes dents, bumps etc. You are basically saying if we assume 1 + 1 = 3, but we also know 1 + 1 = 2, then 3 doesn’t exist (or has a big dent). You should really research on what the “idea of God” is in the first place before going out with these claims."
I disagree.. i think the origins of god have as much to do with people questioning their being, as they do with people fearing the unexplained - you're trying to dismiss my point using a very vague example i used to get the point across.. in fact are you sure you're not a politian?
"It does however bear great importance on the false human “religion” concept, “religion” history and its followers’ actions, a point that I clearly stated several times but you just ignore it. You can keep banging on the old “…but this religious bla I knew stopped bla and killed bla and did this bad bla”, but that again is a complete flawed argument as to the nature of God, to state the obvious: a person’s actions are his own responsibility, and as much as people don’t like to admit it, it is true."
Again.. see first post in thread.. doing things in the name of god is kinda what this is about.. you're the one ignoring things here.
"And finally, since you wanted to go to the personal side of it, before accusing any people of mental illnesses, I suggest you again learn how to make an argument “in reality they are just deluding themselves in something which probably doesn't exist”. You even admit the probability of existence in your own words, not to mention the fact that I have yet to read or hear irrefutable proof in science that God doesn’t exist, but of course to you that doesn’t matter, it’s easier to just call them mentally ill. I wonder what I should call you.."
That comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek. I am aware that americans are very unable to grasp satire, but you're on a mainly UK/euro populated board, so try and keep up?
.. i know no insults I used probably, as certainty is something which doesnt really have a place in debates such as these.. although you seem happy to act as though you are certain.
About the proof of god not existing in science... got anything at all which even closely resembles a small shred of evidence of there being a god in existance? I sincerely doubt it..
Lastly, the closest idea of a god that i will remotely accept is that there may have been a being of some sort, which created the matter for the universe to begin (be it by "the big bang" or other ideas).. however i strongly doubt that the being would exist nowadays. But i somehow think your idea of a god is a long way away from this
You've skipped a hell of a lot of things i've raised too btw.. so get off your high horse m8y.. also what would you call your own "religion" or belief system? just out of interest
No real need to reply Squirrel to the likes of uZi... they're just shooting off at the mouth, just like his namesake.
Btw, Rotted is from Spain... cause where he's at is hot as Hell.
Oh, I still laugh at how non-believing ppl, like some scientists are, try to 'explain' in human terms something that is spiritual in nature.
Btw, Rotted is from Spain... cause where he's at is hot as Hell.
Oh, I still laugh at how non-believing ppl, like some scientists are, try to 'explain' in human terms something that is spiritual in nature.
I will simply quote you in some places since you mostly answer yourself, I tried to hint a bit of humor, since that is accepted on your behalf.
So you believe god doesn’t exist, because he was made up…wait, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist…wait…
Monkey sees banana in tree, monkey eats banana, monkey thinks banana is good…forward 1 million years…
monkey thinks there is a god that made banana, congratz, your banana argument seems kinda good but wait…
Monkey sees human approaching…
______
never mind, monkey cannot think, but he can cop out
Again you have no logics, you seems to be needing a definite class in rationale and existentialism too. Remenber, the tree is a tree even if you are not there to begin with, logics 101.
Magic word cop out? Good, it cancels everything, but wait you explain it here…
First off, i aint gotta back shit up.. no one else has.. [/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself, will ya
Read again?
Of course, you lived in that alternate universe, so you know. Also, religion I guess spread the idea through magical wind to human brains, because before it man just knew everything, or was a monkey.
Ok sorry, banana?
I am not arguing where god came from, because if I knew that I’d make a couple of my own for fun. I wasn’t aware your “arguments” were examples, your point did not get across because it wasn’t even made, and no I am not a politician, and I never will be. People like you identify religion with politics, and you dig your own hole that way.
I beg to differ, and no, it is not what it’s all about, anyone can put the name of god in anyway he sees it fits, mad man included, it’s freedom of speech, but I don’t see how naming things has anything to do with what we are talking about.
I am trying to keep up, and though I think you do not represent all british people, I hope you yourself should appreciate it
Yes, I say what I believe is correct, not what is “probably” correct.
Yes, but I think it’s a cop out anyway, right?
A start… I’m fine with it, your idea does not have to be identical to mine, but you (and me) can always work on refining it.
My beliefs are not “called” any names, because they are simply mine, but they are based in Christianity, my parents, my education, as well as multiple other sources. My previous posts should give you an idea on what they are.
uZi said:
So you believe god doesn’t exist, because he was made up…wait, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist…wait…
uZi said:
uZi said:
uZi said:
uZi said:
uZi said:
Monkey sees banana in tree, monkey eats banana, monkey thinks banana is good…forward 1 million years…
uZi said:
monkey thinks there is a god that made banana, congratz, your banana argument seems kinda good but wait…
uZi said:
Monkey sees human approaching…
uZi said:
______
never mind, monkey cannot think, but he can cop out
uZi said:
Again you have no logics, you seems to be needing a definite class in rationale and existentialism too. Remenber, the tree is a tree even if you are not there to begin with, logics 101.
uZi said:
Magic word cop out? Good, it cancels everything, but wait you explain it here…
First off, i aint gotta back shit up.. no one else has.. [/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself, will ya
uZi said:
Read again?
uZi said:
Of course, you lived in that alternate universe, so you know. Also, religion I guess spread the idea through magical wind to human brains, because before it man just knew everything, or was a monkey.
uZi said:
Ok sorry, banana?
uZi said:I disagree.. i think the origins of god have as much to do with people questioning their being, as they do with people fearing the unexplained - you're trying to dismiss my point using a very vague example i used to get the point across.. in fact are you sure you're not a politian?
I am not arguing where god came from, because if I knew that I’d make a couple of my own for fun. I wasn’t aware your “arguments” were examples, your point did not get across because it wasn’t even made, and no I am not a politician, and I never will be. People like you identify religion with politics, and you dig your own hole that way.
uZi said:
I beg to differ, and no, it is not what it’s all about, anyone can put the name of god in anyway he sees it fits, mad man included, it’s freedom of speech, but I don’t see how naming things has anything to do with what we are talking about.
uZi said:That comment was made with tongue firmly in cheek. I am aware that americans are very unable to grasp satire, but you're on a mainly UK/euro populated board, so try and keep up?
I am trying to keep up, and though I think you do not represent all british people, I hope you yourself should appreciate it
uZi said:
Yes, I say what I believe is correct, not what is “probably” correct.
uZi said:
Yes, but I think it’s a cop out anyway, right?
uZi said:Lastly, the closest idea of a god that i will remotely accept is that there may have been a being of some sort, which created the matter for the universe to begin (be it by "the big bang" or other ideas).. however i strongly doubt that the being would exist nowadays. But i somehow think your idea of a god is a long way away from this
A start… I’m fine with it, your idea does not have to be identical to mine, but you (and me) can always work on refining it.
uZi said:
My beliefs are not “called” any names, because they are simply mine, but they are based in Christianity, my parents, my education, as well as multiple other sources. My previous posts should give you an idea on what they are.
To RoTTed:
I think you just completely missed the point
If you're going to stereotype and generalise religion, why shouldn't Squirrel do the same with wherever you're from? That's common sense and a bucketload of hypocrisy on your part.
I'm not pro Christian (hahaha) or even anti Satanist, so don't think I'm defending Squirrel or attacking Satanism here, but try to do some homework before shoving your biased anti-Christian point of view into a reasonably serious discussion, please. In fact, I should point you out to one of the (new) rules of Satanism:
- Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Noone asked you.
I think you just completely missed the point
If you're going to stereotype and generalise religion, why shouldn't Squirrel do the same with wherever you're from? That's common sense and a bucketload of hypocrisy on your part.
Yeah, and you know jack shit about Christianity? The difference between Christianity and Satanism is that Christianity actually has a large book with (some degree of) wisdom, stories, explainations and an actual history. Satanism on the other hand, has had its main organised group (Church of Satan) founded barely 40 years ago and has a couple of rules, some of which sound reasonable, some of which look as if they were added by a goth kid who should have nothing better to do than write in his blog which only his 3 goth friends read.RoTTeD said:
I'm not pro Christian (hahaha) or even anti Satanist, so don't think I'm defending Squirrel or attacking Satanism here, but try to do some homework before shoving your biased anti-Christian point of view into a reasonably serious discussion, please. In fact, I should point you out to one of the (new) rules of Satanism:
- Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Noone asked you.
Again another one who doesnt know a shit about it (as i said satanism and his dif ways/paths), oh yeah u know the stupid and shit church of satan of anton lavey, yes u know a lot menace.Dont come here to give me lessons about satanism the next time plz.Menace said:To RoTTed:
I think you just completely missed the point
If you're going to stereotype and generalise religion, why shouldn't Squirrel do the same with wherever you're from? That's common sense and a bucketload of hypocrisy on your part.
Yeah, and you know jack shit about Christianity? The difference between Christianity and Satanism is that Christianity actually has a large book with (some degree of) wisdom, stories, explainations and an actual history. Satanism on the other hand, has had its main organised group (Church of Satan) founded barely 40 years ago and has a couple of rules, some of which sound reasonable, some of which look as if they were added by a goth kid who should have nothing better to do than write in his blog which only his 3 goth friends read.
I'm not pro Christian (hahaha) or even anti Satanist, so don't think I'm defending Squirrel or attacking Satanism here, but try to do some homework before shoving your biased anti-Christian point of view into a reasonably serious discussion, please. In fact, I should point you out to one of the (new) rules of Satanism:
- Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Noone asked you.
If u really think that i follow lavey´s stupid bible and his economical church u are r r r wrong menace.Im not here to explain ya the different ways of called satanism as it seems some of u only think that satanism is the right opposite of christianity.
But yes menace ill give an A cos u know lavey, woho! u r know a lot about satanism......hmmmm NOT!.
And be sure that i dont think that i know all about satanism and its ways and i know that i have to learn a lot about it but for god dont insult me talking about lavey menace.
EDIT: and for the next time if u answer in that way to another person (acting like if u know all about a theme and trying to make the other as hes ridiculous) just read about more about the theme as the other person has done.
EDIT 2: and i hope that in the next time another "iluminati" wont come here again talking me about lavey or crowley.
Last edited:
Watching ppl who know what they are talking about is what has formed my atheism.I even though a serious discussion deserves serious q&a i personaly cant be bothered digging up all the right numbers and references again.Some of the ppl who posted in this thread for the first time should have paid more attention too how they posted since they made the discussion fail before it got started.
Now there are a number of really good and enlightening documentaries out there as ive said before.If i had a perfact memory or a pdf of the whole shite i might post it, but i dont.
Personaly i found them 2 weigh in favour of atheism to a much much bigger degree then anything religion has provided.As any christian will be quick 2 tell u...u cant prove god doesnt excist.U just gotta have faith.
Ive heard proffersors, former fundies and even a rabi.These ppl have alot more knowledge about these matters than any1 here. I found what the rabi had to say especially interesting(Hes in The secret Bible - book of revelation, all christians should watch that 1 as it clears up a few common misconceptions about the rapture)
Now there are a number of really good and enlightening documentaries out there as ive said before.If i had a perfact memory or a pdf of the whole shite i might post it, but i dont.
Personaly i found them 2 weigh in favour of atheism to a much much bigger degree then anything religion has provided.As any christian will be quick 2 tell u...u cant prove god doesnt excist.U just gotta have faith.
Ive heard proffersors, former fundies and even a rabi.These ppl have alot more knowledge about these matters than any1 here. I found what the rabi had to say especially interesting(Hes in The secret Bible - book of revelation, all christians should watch that 1 as it clears up a few common misconceptions about the rapture)
I'm losing patience with you squirrel, you still haven't answered a thing ive asked.. i think you're scared to confront them as it questions your faith
and you know what
FAITH IS NOT LOGICAL
i aint gonna bother any more, you're blinded by your "god".. could say more but i see no reason to
and you know what
FAITH IS NOT LOGICAL
i aint gonna bother any more, you're blinded by your "god".. could say more but i see no reason to
Rotted
I will not go into the details and origins of satanism with you, because that is not what this thread is about, maybe you could enlighten us in a separate thread with all these good and new satanism values that you seem to think, and maybe start by defining satan and satanism in the first place. Frankly though, your hate of christians speaks for itself.
Gen
I am glad you have taken the time to talk to some people, though frankly I don't see how you might think that is just all you neeed. I have spoken/read/seen to a much greater extent and with different religious experts (not just rabbis), and yet I believe I have still a huge amout of understanding in front of me. Now you claim almost all you have seen weigh in favor of atheism, which screams media prototyping to me. I must have seen about 10 of those documentaries, and I am sure there's plenty more. Although I enjoy watching them, because there are always interesting facts usually, keep in mind that it's media, and as such the main purpose is sensation/news break. Also, unless it's a religion affiliated channel, which I very much doubt you watch from your own words, there is no way it will end up with the point that yes, in fact the explation is supernatural/religious, because the trademarks that own the channel would immediatly get bashed from the atheist foundation. As I mentioned before, there seems to be a fascination now, with all the DaVinci' type of stuff that if we discover some interesting document, no matter its validity, we can start questioning all the beliefs/religion philosophy right away. Media plays with the desire of common people to say "Ah, see, I knew all this God stuff was crap", hence the wide spread euphoria, and smart people getting rich.
I would suggest you look at things with a more critical point of view, and change your sources of information to a broader field, because I assure you haven't seen close to probably 1% of what religion has provided in all. With that said, I would gladly like to see the docs you mention, so that I can follow up on them if I haven't seen them yet, and comment on them.
Uzi
Well, at this point I can simply laugh at your post. My "fear and blindness" as you say I guess are too big, so maybe you could show me what I am missing. I disected your last post to a very simple format, but I guess even that is not enough for u, instead you seem to like saying I just didn't say anything back lol. I would suggest you stick to your own last words ". could say more but i see no reason to" and come back when you have a real point/reason.
I will not go into the details and origins of satanism with you, because that is not what this thread is about, maybe you could enlighten us in a separate thread with all these good and new satanism values that you seem to think, and maybe start by defining satan and satanism in the first place. Frankly though, your hate of christians speaks for itself.
Gen
I am glad you have taken the time to talk to some people, though frankly I don't see how you might think that is just all you neeed. I have spoken/read/seen to a much greater extent and with different religious experts (not just rabbis), and yet I believe I have still a huge amout of understanding in front of me. Now you claim almost all you have seen weigh in favor of atheism, which screams media prototyping to me. I must have seen about 10 of those documentaries, and I am sure there's plenty more. Although I enjoy watching them, because there are always interesting facts usually, keep in mind that it's media, and as such the main purpose is sensation/news break. Also, unless it's a religion affiliated channel, which I very much doubt you watch from your own words, there is no way it will end up with the point that yes, in fact the explation is supernatural/religious, because the trademarks that own the channel would immediatly get bashed from the atheist foundation. As I mentioned before, there seems to be a fascination now, with all the DaVinci' type of stuff that if we discover some interesting document, no matter its validity, we can start questioning all the beliefs/religion philosophy right away. Media plays with the desire of common people to say "Ah, see, I knew all this God stuff was crap", hence the wide spread euphoria, and smart people getting rich.
I would suggest you look at things with a more critical point of view, and change your sources of information to a broader field, because I assure you haven't seen close to probably 1% of what religion has provided in all. With that said, I would gladly like to see the docs you mention, so that I can follow up on them if I haven't seen them yet, and comment on them.
Uzi
Well, at this point I can simply laugh at your post. My "fear and blindness" as you say I guess are too big, so maybe you could show me what I am missing. I disected your last post to a very simple format, but I guess even that is not enough for u, instead you seem to like saying I just didn't say anything back lol. I would suggest you stick to your own last words ". could say more but i see no reason to" and come back when you have a real point/reason.
Your making some pretty bombastic assumptions there m8.Im 30 and i didnt just dl some docs the other day make up my mind. Dont pretend to know what im thinking, although i have some preconceived assumptions about what u are and where ur from i wouldnt let that drive my arguments as that would make my field of vision and insight more narrow.
If as u say uve visited alot of forums then u know that talking religion and politics case by case on the inet is less usefull than shooting oneself in the head.
I will tho get u a list of stuff to check out.
About the davinci stuff i dont buy into it in its entirety.Its one of the reaaly good conspiracy theories, nothing more.
There is stuff in there which is interesting and factual, but to me it looks like its been tied together 2 make a good story.
Also try to avoid making snide and insulting comments as it doesnt help your point or mine, im guilty of the same from time to time.But we should all try and work at it, i know i do. One should think while posting " How would i say this if i were face to face with this person"
If as u say uve visited alot of forums then u know that talking religion and politics case by case on the inet is less usefull than shooting oneself in the head.
I will tho get u a list of stuff to check out.
About the davinci stuff i dont buy into it in its entirety.Its one of the reaaly good conspiracy theories, nothing more.
There is stuff in there which is interesting and factual, but to me it looks like its been tied together 2 make a good story.
Also try to avoid making snide and insulting comments as it doesnt help your point or mine, im guilty of the same from time to time.But we should all try and work at it, i know i do. One should think while posting " How would i say this if i were face to face with this person"
your monkey arguement is entirely illogical.. go back to school <-- i can do it too.. gg
but seriously, you started with a joke, and never came back to being serious.. plz try again
and you almost entirely skipped my main question.. which was.. WHERE DO YOU THINK THE IDEA OF GOD CAME FROM?
aside from your monkey and banana related toss, the closest you came to answering this was: "I am not arguing where god came from, because if I knew that I’d make a couple of my own for fun."
Let me rephrase for you.. so your simple american-christian warped little mind can understand:
Why do you think humans started to think/believe in a god?
And if you give me another.. oh i couldnt possibly start to comprehend this.. type answer im giving up and pigeon-holing you as another religious retard who cant stand any criticism
To clarify this for you: I have given over the possibility that i could be wrong, and that there could be a god (see earlier posts) whereas you will not even begin to admit the possibility of you being wrong.
My reason for discussing this, is that it is my opinion (note this entire arguement is based on opinions, blind faith, and very little actual fact - personally i don't take anything in the bible/koran/any other holy book as fact, or anything but fiction)
also:
wrong.. go read the very first post and come back (and can you stop putting words in my mouth,, the phrasing "kinda what this is about" is very different to "all about" k thx bye)
its about quotations from the scripts of judaism.. which are basically saying.. kill homosexuals, and own slaves, etc etc
you say these are taken out of context... i say bullshit
people pick and choose which things in holy books that they wish to follow.. i think you can guess where this is going, its been mentioned in the thread already. It just reeks of hypocrisy, who says what is still valid and what is not?
You still havent really answered these points which were raised by others, eg rich, earlier.
I suspect you'll give another bullshit post in response to all of this. Saying that i have no logic, and that i need to go back and take logic 101, etc etc.... but go for it, my reasoning is a lot more sound than any of yours that i've read so far.
I could go on but you're coming across as such a pompus asshole that i think ill stop, as my download has finished, so im gonna watch some stargate.. l8r
Gen
Interesting post, probably best from you so far.
I have to admit, not knowing you personally I have to make a few assumptions, which can definitely be wrong, but I usually get to those from what you say in your posts, and your language has changed quite a lot from your first posts. Also, I guess being surrounded mostly with people that take the easy way out (you can easily tell from posts here and in discussion with people in real life), I am inclined to think I deal with those people most of the times. In any case, given your age and what you have been saying after your first posts, it seems to me you might not in that category, which is great. As far as insults go, I completely agree with you, and I think I refrained from using them, though it’s quite hard when dealing with some of previous posts. Also, it is true it is quite hard to get the point across on a forum, but if people took some time to elaborate and work on a specific point, not simply state their opinion in one liners and say everyone opposed is stupid, that really helps, and I said I am open to q&a too personally. To that extent, I'll welcome your sources list, and any point you'd want to dwell into.
Uzi
Your post seems to be again a mix of rant, saying no because you don't like to, insults and points taken from other posts. Could you please before dismissing anything as illogical, actually saying why that is?
You raise again only one question which I already answered but I will do again, everything else has pretty much been said from others before you, and I addressed in my previous posts, which you keep ignoring, but I would rather continue on those with the original posters than you.
Where do you think the idea of a tree came from? When did humans comprehend what a tree is? When did they realize a tree is not an idea, but an entity? Are you following or are you already lost. The existence of an entity is not a result of how you got to hear of it, thought of it or named it. To me god (which is not an idea) constitutes senses/feelings/thoughts that make his presence/existence known, as any other entity I perceive. That is normally why any normal person believes anything exists. They believe in god because he exists in their reality, the timing of when is completely irrelevant. Now your “idea” of god seems to mean what someone called something he didn’t understand at the time, and this “origin” explains things. If you can’t see the contrast here, I’m afraid I can’t help you anymore.
Regarding to following the lines of the book, again READ my posts, and realize there is a difference between reading and understanding, and reading and going “alalalala”. You like being told what to do, fine, go ahead and post something of value, will you do it now that I said it? Context…get two random sentences from my posts and put them in a “do this or die” text book 2000 years from now, let’s see how well they fit there, it would be a cool society to watch.
Oh, and what’s funny is that I am not even American, but hey maybe your mind is so powerful it can make me one, and warp my little mind. Maybe it’s better for you to keep watching stargate and not coming back to this topic.
Interesting post, probably best from you so far.
I have to admit, not knowing you personally I have to make a few assumptions, which can definitely be wrong, but I usually get to those from what you say in your posts, and your language has changed quite a lot from your first posts. Also, I guess being surrounded mostly with people that take the easy way out (you can easily tell from posts here and in discussion with people in real life), I am inclined to think I deal with those people most of the times. In any case, given your age and what you have been saying after your first posts, it seems to me you might not in that category, which is great. As far as insults go, I completely agree with you, and I think I refrained from using them, though it’s quite hard when dealing with some of previous posts. Also, it is true it is quite hard to get the point across on a forum, but if people took some time to elaborate and work on a specific point, not simply state their opinion in one liners and say everyone opposed is stupid, that really helps, and I said I am open to q&a too personally. To that extent, I'll welcome your sources list, and any point you'd want to dwell into.
Uzi
Your post seems to be again a mix of rant, saying no because you don't like to, insults and points taken from other posts. Could you please before dismissing anything as illogical, actually saying why that is?
You raise again only one question which I already answered but I will do again, everything else has pretty much been said from others before you, and I addressed in my previous posts, which you keep ignoring, but I would rather continue on those with the original posters than you.
Where do you think the idea of a tree came from? When did humans comprehend what a tree is? When did they realize a tree is not an idea, but an entity? Are you following or are you already lost. The existence of an entity is not a result of how you got to hear of it, thought of it or named it. To me god (which is not an idea) constitutes senses/feelings/thoughts that make his presence/existence known, as any other entity I perceive. That is normally why any normal person believes anything exists. They believe in god because he exists in their reality, the timing of when is completely irrelevant. Now your “idea” of god seems to mean what someone called something he didn’t understand at the time, and this “origin” explains things. If you can’t see the contrast here, I’m afraid I can’t help you anymore.
Regarding to following the lines of the book, again READ my posts, and realize there is a difference between reading and understanding, and reading and going “alalalala”. You like being told what to do, fine, go ahead and post something of value, will you do it now that I said it? Context…get two random sentences from my posts and put them in a “do this or die” text book 2000 years from now, let’s see how well they fit there, it would be a cool society to watch.
Oh, and what’s funny is that I am not even American, but hey maybe your mind is so powerful it can make me one, and warp my little mind. Maybe it’s better for you to keep watching stargate and not coming back to this topic.
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"Rotted
I will not go into the details and origins of satanism with you, because that is not what this thread is about, maybe you could enlighten us in a separate thread with all these good and new satanism values that you seem to think, and maybe start by defining satan and satanism in the first place. Frankly though, your hate of christians speaks for itself.
Gen"
Hmmmm just to say the last thing, mate say me where the fuck ive said that my values are good for another person, or where the fuck i said that i want enlighten u with my values or i have to teach ya about my moral?, what i think or my point of view its only good/right for me, everyone can have their own view about life.I dont pretend to teach others cos ive never said my truth is the only one.Its good for me but i dont try to make others follow my opinions.
And guess what? i think its the oposite attitude than catholics have acted during most of history, hmmmm....
And i see that u are all time saying somth about my hate against christians/institution, well my hate can be the same that ive against nazis as (u can remember that in spain were a dictator some years ago and catholics institution was supporting the dicator so many many (not all of course but no one did anything to avoid it) catholics persecuted many ppl cos they werent catholics and they wanted a democracy.Anyways its useless to talk more about this theme as u wont change ur opinion and i wont neither.
I will not go into the details and origins of satanism with you, because that is not what this thread is about, maybe you could enlighten us in a separate thread with all these good and new satanism values that you seem to think, and maybe start by defining satan and satanism in the first place. Frankly though, your hate of christians speaks for itself.
Gen"
Hmmmm just to say the last thing, mate say me where the fuck ive said that my values are good for another person, or where the fuck i said that i want enlighten u with my values or i have to teach ya about my moral?, what i think or my point of view its only good/right for me, everyone can have their own view about life.I dont pretend to teach others cos ive never said my truth is the only one.Its good for me but i dont try to make others follow my opinions.
And guess what? i think its the oposite attitude than catholics have acted during most of history, hmmmm....
And i see that u are all time saying somth about my hate against christians/institution, well my hate can be the same that ive against nazis as (u can remember that in spain were a dictator some years ago and catholics institution was supporting the dicator so many many (not all of course but no one did anything to avoid it) catholics persecuted many ppl cos they werent catholics and they wanted a democracy.Anyways its useless to talk more about this theme as u wont change ur opinion and i wont neither.
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