A large number of (mainly) Eastern European immigrants are due to legally hit the shores later this year. Assume many are unemployable and will have children and medical needs. Also assume that many will be able to contribute successfully to the UK economy and/or will be decent people. Discuss.
UK immigrants
- Thread starter Twonko
- Start date
-
Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!
Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.
Well I dunno that there's much to discuss. It would be different if they were coming illegally but that's a whole different kettle of fish. People always say 'it's a free country' - well they're finding out how true that is. These people have a right to live, same as the ones who were born here. At the same time, I realise I live in an area where the ethnicity of the neighbourhood is predominantly caucasian, to the point where I can't remember the last time I saw a black or Asian person locally. Maybe if I lived in Sighthill or somewhere I'd see it differently, cos it's easy to be anti-racism when you live in an area where racial issues never arise ![:\](/images/smilies/submitted/smark/ohwell.gif "Oh Well :\")
As far as their being decent people goes; people are people everywhere. Everywhere in the world you get good and bad and decent and small-minded, open-minded and bigoted etc. Humans are humans absolutely everywhere and you never know what someone will really be like until you've met them personally. Maybe these legal immigrants will be the worst thing that's ever happened to Britain, maybe they'll be the best, or maybe nothing much will change and the world will keep turning
As far as their being decent people goes; people are people everywhere. Everywhere in the world you get good and bad and decent and small-minded, open-minded and bigoted etc. Humans are humans absolutely everywhere and you never know what someone will really be like until you've met them personally. Maybe these legal immigrants will be the worst thing that's ever happened to Britain, maybe they'll be the best, or maybe nothing much will change and the world will keep turning
Last edited:
Well assuming that they are not able to work, what about the new ground rules that are being laid out by the goverment which say that every immigrant must find work?
We seem to have a new class of people who can now be exploited - The Immigrant. They will be forced to work if they want to come into the UK. Does someone who is a legal immigrant have the same rights to claim minimum wage from an employer? I'd be worried if this wasn't the case as it paves the way for immigrants to be officially exploited, not unlike the Morecombe cocklers who were working in substandard conditions, and also with a lot to lose if they didn't co-operate.
And if this is the case, what happens to the working class? They then have the burden of the minimum wage over their head which makes them more expensive to employ. This could result in low skilled or entry level jobs being unachievable to the average non-immigrant.
Like Useless, 99% of the people I see around me are white and working-middle class. Racisim I find simply unacceptable and more of an easy, unintelligent insult. Anyone who can stereotype a certain genre/type/race like Asian, ginger haired or gay and say that they are anything has nothing worthwhile to say. I do however have friends and people within the industry I work with who seem to strongly believe that people who are Asian, Chinese, etc are not worth the same as their own class of White man. I blame our essentially racist class system for generally labeling people based on their finacially or physical status. We as a country are inheritantly racist but have got better over the years, but still have a long way to go.
We seem to have a new class of people who can now be exploited - The Immigrant. They will be forced to work if they want to come into the UK. Does someone who is a legal immigrant have the same rights to claim minimum wage from an employer? I'd be worried if this wasn't the case as it paves the way for immigrants to be officially exploited, not unlike the Morecombe cocklers who were working in substandard conditions, and also with a lot to lose if they didn't co-operate.
And if this is the case, what happens to the working class? They then have the burden of the minimum wage over their head which makes them more expensive to employ. This could result in low skilled or entry level jobs being unachievable to the average non-immigrant.
Like Useless, 99% of the people I see around me are white and working-middle class. Racisim I find simply unacceptable and more of an easy, unintelligent insult. Anyone who can stereotype a certain genre/type/race like Asian, ginger haired or gay and say that they are anything has nothing worthwhile to say. I do however have friends and people within the industry I work with who seem to strongly believe that people who are Asian, Chinese, etc are not worth the same as their own class of White man. I blame our essentially racist class system for generally labeling people based on their finacially or physical status. We as a country are inheritantly racist but have got better over the years, but still have a long way to go.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone coming to this country to find work as a legal immigrant.
What I object against is when they can't speak the language or can hardly read or write. I resent that simply on the premise that I wouldn't dare migrate to Japan (for example) to find work, not having the slightest clue how to speak Japanese.
What I object against is when they can't speak the language or can hardly read or write. I resent that simply on the premise that I wouldn't dare migrate to Japan (for example) to find work, not having the slightest clue how to speak Japanese.
i can hardly imagine ships full of "legal immigrants" heading towards the shores of uk tbh, i just cant see good enough reasons why they should, not many ppl r willing to leave all friends and relatives behind and leap in the dark
ones who really wanted to move out have found the way by now anyway
ones who really wanted to move out have found the way by now anyway
ViPah said:
I've said it a few times before, I live and work within a few hundred yards of the main immigration centre of the UK, Lunar House. There are TRUCK LOADS of foreigners claiming asylum / immigration every single DAY (not week, DAY). (Tbh i reckon around 1,000 - 5,000 a day). That's the one who do it legally. 1,000 x 365 ..... hmmmmm! If 25% of applications are successful then that's still like 100,000 a year.
basically i agree with Apoc.
Apocalypse said:
The issue for me is not one of racism, but simply people who expect something for nothing, whether they are UK native born, or incoming immigrants. You can't simply expect to arrive in a country, unable to speak the language, unwilling to learn it, not wishing to integrate in any meaningful way into society, not want to gain employment, and then wonder why all the taxpayers subsidising you want something done about the situation.IMHO, most people aren't really racist. They simply object to able bodied people, who are clearly intelligent, who have no wish to contribute to a society, but simply want to take everything they can from it. And let's face it, there are plenty of those who were born in the UK...
IMHO, we have a duty to those coming here genuinely seeking asylum due to political issues in the country of their birth, or because they have a medical condition that simply cannot be treated in their own country.
Everyone else is an economic migrant, and as such are more than welcome here, provided they contribute like the vast majority of other decent taxpayers.
I don't know that the demarcation lines between working-class and middle-class are very clear any more. I wouldn't know how exactly you would define working-class for example, but if these people are immigrating (is that the word?) to Britain to live legally as British citizens, then they should have the same rights (and lack of) than people born here. But about the language thing: I agree - if they come here and cba learning the language or trying to adapt to the culture then that's taking the piss a bit. Which is why they'll get a lot of racist abuse (probably) - if they've come to take advantage of the British system then they're not exactly going to endear themselves to the natives. But if I lost out on a job to someone who was a legal immigrant, based on grounds of qualification, then I couldn't really complain about it. Cos you have to be prepared to take the good with the bad.
I agree with Apoc.
But I would have to say, I dont think it would be as much of an issue if we turfed out the number of people in the country who have never worked, never sought to work, never contributed in any meaningful way to society and continue to sit around and suck the state dry. And, not surprisingly, it is often those same people who tend to be the racist element calling for people to sod off back to their own country etc etc.
Those people who have never learned the language or bothered to find work.........Thousands of them here already and they were born and bred m8!
Maybe we could give some of the immigrants work down at the docks putting some of the lazy tossers already here on return ships?
But I would have to say, I dont think it would be as much of an issue if we turfed out the number of people in the country who have never worked, never sought to work, never contributed in any meaningful way to society and continue to sit around and suck the state dry. And, not surprisingly, it is often those same people who tend to be the racist element calling for people to sod off back to their own country etc etc.
Those people who have never learned the language or bothered to find work.........Thousands of them here already and they were born and bred m8!
Maybe we could give some of the immigrants work down at the docks putting some of the lazy tossers already here on return ships?
Twonko said:
As Martz said there are limitations regarding people from (mainly) Eastern European countries coming to the UK. They will be able to work if they find any job but will not be able to claim benefits. No work = no benefits the simple rule. In addition, legal workers from these countries will only be able to claim most of the benefits after 1 year of working. However, minimum wage and some protection will apply from the day they started working.
Twonko said:
Ok let's assume they could be decent people
. They will pay tax, National Insurance contributions if they work so I can't really see how they could not contribute to the economy. Imagine an employer who could choose between a british or an eastern europen worker (minimum wage applies). They would obviously choose the british unless the immigrant worker is much more skilled. This is provided that there is a british nationality wanting that particular job or there are any at all (nurses, doctors). IMO the asylum system in the UK (often referred as the failure) does no good to these legal workers. You got plenty of illegal immigrants from all over the world (and plenty of cough legal because of your empire - history) thank to the UK's soft asylum system. The UK seemed to encourage asylum seekers by putting money in their pocket + giving them flats and houses but now suddenly scared of the hordes of legal and skilled workers. Interesting I must say.