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Discussion in 'Fraghub General Discussions' started by Martz, Nov 6, 2004.

  1. Joko

    Joko Be Young. Be Foolish. But Be Happy!

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    Serverside demo's? Then you don't have to put up with ppl saying "uhh. my demo manager doesnt work" bleh bleh bleh, also means every player is covered in one demo instead of all 10 submitting demos. Would also be handy to make Movies with :D, like "Best of Div1 January 2005".

    Just getting server providers to agree. Also where do they get saved? and how much strain is it gonna put on the servers? Does UT2004 even support serverside demos :confused: :deal:
     
  2. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    Rookie has a very good point here. Indeed.
    I think that is a good solution.
    The penalty for cheating should be so high that the cheating person would consider it very closely before doing it.
    In this way he would loose almost everything if he is caught. He/She looses his posibility to play at least for a while.
    Also he/she has to hide in a new identity in the community if h wishes to return. This could be hard since many clans would not take the risk.

    I agree.
     
  3. Carnage`

    Carnage` Handing in my Cubes

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    how about server side no complaints n they get deleted instantly other wise they could be looked in to. or even on the notify admin option let the server record till the admin comes in or summat.

    Fel, it would be hardly innocent people, as a clan leader u know the limitations of the people that play for you. They excell questionably well over night stop to spec once in a while. And if i was a wanker i wouldn't care bout me cuz i'd just buy a new key or steal one. But shagging ur team m8s really sux. And if not HZ put em to the bottom of the division they are in for a first offence or summat.

    As a clan leader you put a team out for the match so you have responsibilty aswell.
     
  4. Joko

    Joko Be Young. Be Foolish. But Be Happy!

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    Damn right, HZ i reckon. No sick puppy is gonna fuck over his m8s. And if he does then its the clanleaders fault for recruiting him :D
     
  5. .Terror.

    .Terror. New Member

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    i agree with rookie
     
  6. gringo

    gringo Dope

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    sorry this is a quick reply but I'm in the middle of packing for my hols tomorrow and cant get into a huge debate on this until the new year :)

    Server side demos would be great like you all say but its not feasible imo.
    1) We just simply dont and wont consistently have the manpower available to check all demos everytime someone is accused of cheating.
    2) GSP's will never allow the storage of 100's mb of demos on their HDD's
    3) Even with demos, it's not necessarily conclusive from watching them whether the accused is botting or not....if they are a 'clever' botter, it's usage can be disguised quite well. Admin decisions would then just cause more debate and suspicion :(
     
    '//3iRd(o) likes this.
  7. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    Maybe not posible to record demos on the server.

    But the penaltiy for cheating should be hard and mercyless nonetheless: Kick, ban and clan to HZ.
    It would make the clans more carefull about whom they let into their premises. A very good filter.
    Nobody will play in or join a clan that has been relegated to HZ due to cheating. That clan is domed to die and will get a lot of troubles alongside with the cold shoulder from everyone.
    This is a way to prevent some of the cheating.

    But an effective Anti Cheat is also nessecary. No doubt about it.
    Maybe it is even time to use more than one Anti Cheat Client at the same time if posible.
    In this way the cheaters will never know what to expect.
    The only way to be ahead of them is be more clever than they are.

    But unfortunately there's already money involved in making cheats like the Elf-bot. And that is a business.
    You can buy a bot custom made for a single player, even for a single match.
    The best way to get rid of this is probably to find ways to attack these people instead of always defending ourselves against them.
    There must be plenty of smart people in this League with enough knowledge to do something to track them down and find ways to either destroy or delay their work so much they eventually give up or become more or less ineffective.
    With all the enthusiasm we use to play the game we must be able to ensure cheat free games as well.
    I don't think defense always is the best way. It is just ALSO an option.

    Remember when cheating became so difficult some years ago?
    Then suddenly people started making all the tweaks. They also were banned. Or most of them.
    They were just smart clientsided settings within the game itself executed by a command.

    I remember when I played Planetside for a while.
    SONY had a very smart way of removing cheaters from their servers.
    They had to download the Anti-Cheat-Client every time the connected to a server.
    This client tested every single important file in the game directory. Size, date, strings etc.
    Very few cheaters were found on the servers. And if, very shortly too.
    You could not play if you refused to download the Anti Cheat Client every time.
    That would also be a solution. Even more since the cheaters would be suspicious if they joined a server very late.
    Many cheaters would be affraid if their cheats would be exposed this particular time they tried to join the server.
    And they would never know when a new updated version of the Anti Cheat Client was released.
    This would make it very hard for cheaters.
     
  8. Felerian

    Felerian "All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?"

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    What a bullshit...

    why dont you kick & ban all the players of that Clan then aswell? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2004
  9. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    Those with a clear consious will not be offended by this, Lane, on the contrary :D

    And no, I don't give a screaming fart about cheaters at all. I think they're scum of the earth.

    I have reached a stade of age where I don't play the game to win at all costs (...because I want to be the most l33t person on this earth) but merely enjoy the game for the sports and having a good time with people I know and love.
    And when you look at it from a moral point of view cheaters are those who spoils all fun for everyone by ignoring the fact that there are other people in this world than them selveas.
    I think cheating in a League like this is a serious as if you slept with your best friends wife.
    Cheaters are persons who can not be trusted. We're talking about moral here, ethics.

    I have no respect for people who very well know the border line but decides to step over it anyway to benefit them selves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2004
  10. Felerian

    Felerian "All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?"

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    give me a break alan, i got a a clear conscience... but still this is to heavy...
     
  11. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    Too heavy!?

    This is exactly what has to be done.
    Even YOU feel a bit thoughtful about it.
     
  12. Geo

    Geo One & Only

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    Yup ban cheaters alltogether ,clan that played the cheater gets final warning and dropped to bottom of the div they in and then next time if an incident with a cheater caught in there clan playing mathces then HZ,after this if there is a player playing matches for same clan and caught cheating then 3rd strike and clan is out :ban: for clan aswell as they cant be trusted .
     
  13. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    I remember when we played UT99 some years ago.

    I was in a different clan than today.
    This clan needed players. Not desperately, but it would have done it good.
    We often played on Boomtown and met many players there. And some l33t player who played very often there in a period asked to join us. Later it showed up he was 'Doctaluv' (?) who already had been banned by UTA.
    We wanted to test him and played some with him. Suddenly this player began to brag about having a bot that could be used even on our League servers.
    Tempting? Hmm. Curious? Yes.
    We were actually very curious about how these bots worked. And it was rather easy to get a copy of it.
    Me and a friend installed this bot, made a fake nick and went on Boomtown to test it.
    I my self put on a feature that made the bot shoot at even my own team mates. I think it was the highest 'mode' it could run in.

    This bot was a Helieos Elf bot. It hit everything. You could adjust it to only hit random, random parts of the body etc. Very smart thing. And it could be turned on and off as you liked.
    Oh, this was a heavy weapon. Indeed. With this bot our clan could win the League up to Div. 1. No doubt.

    But I discovered something after having tested this bot:
    I very fast began to feel I was bored.
    Why play if I knew I could win for sure?
    It is like having multi-millions of dollars and not knowing what to do with them, not having to work. Not having to do anything.
    And then I found it all very pointless. Why play then? I knew I'd win anyway.
    There was no competition, no fun in trying to get better.
    It is not the goal it self, but the way towards it that makes it interesting.
    To see if you can reach something. Like painting a picture: If it is piss easy, why do it then?
    The fun only exists when you try to do something you can't or don't know if you can.

    I also began to be ashamed about what a prick I would be to use such a bot in matches.
    I remembered how hard I had practised to become as good as I was. And now I could spoil it all for everyone else having practised as much as I had.
    It all became a stinking fart in my hands, and I contacted the admins at UTA. Told them about it.
    But they already knew about this bot and this person and suggested I just deleted the bot and everything else.
    I did.

    But this incident taught me what is more fair and etchically right.

    I bet a lot of you also have tested a bot at some time. Of curiosity.
    And found out the same things as I did.

    And today I get so pissed about those who uses cheats like bots or whatever they are called today.
    It completely ruins the game for everyone else.
    And I can only be sad when I think of the reasons those people have to use them. They must have some really bad complexes of feeling small and useless. And most of all, they have not understod what this life is all about after all.
     
  14. NiGhT_owl

    NiGhT_owl Well-Known Member

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    ban the clan aswell??? ok if i was in another clan, and a person who used a bot was caught, and the clan got banned everyone is tranished with that same ban, which ment me being an honest player, always abiding with this rule, would be tarnished by this one persons actions, now that is unfair. Have a bot is also unfair, the person using the bot should be banned, but not the hole clan, thats just lame, just cause someone wants to be lame, dosnt mean everyone in that same clan is lame.

    [edit] ok just read hole thread LOL, if the same clan bin caught with repeated cheaters, then yes ban hole clan, i agree with that [/edit]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2004
  15. .Terror.

    .Terror. New Member

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    but when the clan got 2 a div with a cheating member so the cheater made it possible that they got in that div so the clan has 2 do it with out the cheater thats fair innit ? so its just depends on how long the member was in there . :D
     
  16. sneez

    sneez Well-Known Member

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    I suggest a discussion on cheat-punishments, AFTER fraghub found a good anti-cheat mutator :x
     
  17. '//3iRd(o)

    '//3iRd(o) Administrator

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    Umm I'm not sure Fraghub really have a choice regarding cheat punishments for the cheaters themselves.

    UT2004 EULA states that any cheaters caught will have their CD KEY globally banned and must immediately uninstall the software.

    The only way a clan should suffer is by voiding matches said cheater was proven to have cheated.


    http://www.epicgames.com/ut2k4_eula.html
     
  18. Mushashi

    Mushashi [ADC] {SUYM} -=E[o]S=- *bwd* [DWAP]

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    If you want cheat free games you can't afford to be soft in any way.
     
  19. LeNiXiS

    LeNiXiS Hells Yea

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    haven't read the rest of thread so might be mention but:

    - When player has joined a clan on "clan membership" area. ie a date like on uta.
    - Seems people have to type out who played on match reports, tick boxes etc?

    thats about all atm :p