Liquids on planes

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Ðeadßoy

Son!c Reducer
Apr 9, 2002
14,742
113
Dead End Street
They are taking liquids from people and banning liquids on all flights.

couldn't the terrorists use the tried and true method that drug smugglers have been using all these years, and simply swallow packs of liquid explosives (no health risk, since they will die anyway) and regurgitate them in the toilet.

Or just strap it in your underpants they never pat there .

seems to me that this whole thing is about fear and control.

if the government was smart, which i think they just might be, and this was really about terrorism and liquid explosives and saving lives, wouldn't they have a whole body pat down? or liquid explosive sniffing dogs checking people as they go through security but letting them keep their liquids.

imo the no liquids on planes thing is stupid and wont stop anyone determined to destroy us
 
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yea.. looks kinda shit to me :\
after the arrests before the flights, they arrested what... another 10 people or something? :x good going there goverment of UK :P
 
Well, the US government is a fascist over-controlling government anyways. But you know, what if a mother wants to bring baby formula on the plane or something? It's bullshit. Plus, airline staff could easily smuggle liquids on the plane. They do give in-flight drinks and everything. What if someone buys an unopened bottle of water from an airport vending machine? Shouldn't they be able to take that onto a plane as well? Or what if I were to buy a coffee at the airport diner and bring that on the plane? I mean, ffs some things just aren't dangerous. There hasn't been a terrorist attack on US soil in almost 5 years as it is, yet we're warned all the time that the terror alert status has changed. Then we're told of these plots to blow things up that might never have existed.. just to make us feel safe but yet constantly threatened.

It's the cold war all over again. Feel safe, but fear. Big Brother's got your back.


EDIT: I think if they really want to keep us safe, they better start looking out for snakes on planes. Put Samuel L. Jackson on every plane.
 
Ðeadßoy said:
They are taking liquids from people and banning liquids on all flights.

couldn't the terrorists use the tried and true method that drug smugglers have been using all these years, and simply swallow packs of liquid explosives (no health risk, since they will die anyway) and regurgitate them in the toilet.

Or just strap it in your underpants they never pat there .

seems to me that this whole thing is about fear and control.

if the government was smart, which i think they just might be, and this was really about terrorism and liquid explosives and saving lives, wouldn't they have a whole body pat down? or liquid explosive sniffing dogs checking people as they go through security but letting them keep their liquids.

imo the no liquids on planes thing is stupid and wont stop anyone determined to destroy us

You may have a point there but its not very well put.

With regards to the dogs, they cant smell the liquid gel.

With regards to the rest, yes if anyone was that determined, yes they could, but you could say that about anything. People started bringing knives/guns = Ban Knives Guns
People Started putting explosives in liquids = Ban Liquids

So you can either ban liquids in attempt to try and prevent your explosion, or not try and you can die....

I know what Id chose...
 
Baby Formula was being allowed on flights, theyve basically banned all non essential liquids, do you really need that coffee or bottle of water for your flight, im guessing not.

Dont quite know how the explosive sniffing dogs are goign to be any use, the whole point of the liquids were that standard type of liquids were being brought upon the plane and mixed, a dog wouldnt detect that.

You'll never stop anyone if they are determined enough, its merely a deterrent.
 
Is it possible to swallow 4 lrs of liquid explosives and make them explode later?
 
Assuming ur able to keep the liquids seperate until you want, otherwise as soon as somebody near you has their mobile ring or something similar then you blow up, doesnt exactly make it easy to blow up what you want.
 
there is no 100% security... thats per definition impossible... all u can do is limit and lower the odds/risks... and then again u have to decide whats the best ballance between personal freedom and comon security...
 
MeetYourMaker said:
Assuming ur able to keep the liquids seperate until you want, otherwise as soon as somebody near you has their mobile ring or something similar then you blow up, doesnt exactly make it easy to blow up what you want.
There will probably be a method to manage that. Liquid will be the next generation? :hangover:

Anyway, i flew to turkey and back to amsterdam last weeks for my holidays, and really, the securitycheck is fucking crap. I haven't been touched for one millisecond and could have blown the whole aircraft away. Some people were checked because they were 'looking islamic', the rest could just pass the handluggagecheck and move on. I didnt see anything of sharpened security in amsterdam, and turkey was really a joke compared to anything iv seen in my life. What a mess, jesus.
 
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Pete said:
There will probably be a method to manage that. Liquid will be the next generation? :hangover:

Anyway, i flew to turkey and back to amsterdam last weeks for my holidays, and really, the securitycheck is fucking crap. I haven't been touched for one millisecond and could have blown the whole aircraft away. Some people were checked because they were 'looking islamic', the rest could just pass the handluggagecheck and move on. I didnt see anything of sharpened security in amsterdam, and turkey was really a joke compared to anything iv seen in my life. What a mess, jesus.

Course you can do it.

When u take an aspirin in one of those plastic capsules its the same principal. The plastic capsules are meant to provide controlled release of the active into your body over a certain period of time. Pharmaceutical companies spend billions on R&D looking for ways to perfect this controlled release process.

All you would need to do is make a "red pill" and a "blue pill". Design both pills so that you have controlled release of the two actives into your stomach. Once the concentration of the mixed product reaches a critical level in your stomach (after a specified length of time) you just need to find a way to detonate yourself which wouldn't be too hard.
 
There was an excellent article on The Register about this.

The short of it is, there are no liquids which oxidise like typical explosives that can cause explosions to bring planes down. It is complete and utter bollocks, designed entirely to put the fear into people.

Lets look at it from another perspective, and assume that liquid explosives are entirely feasible and a real threat to airline security.

You used to get through the airport security screening process quite quickly, where you maybe spent a couple of hours waiting and shopping etc. You're in a safe zone with everyone else who has been screened at a basic level.

The way it is now - with the advanced security measures, you are spending that time OUTSIDE of the safe zone, queuing with hundreds of other people who have not been screened at all. If I was a terrorist and I wanted to cause a huge loss of life - I would detonate myself in the queue before any security guy has seen me. I could walk in with dynamite strapped around the outside of my body (like a stereotypical Die Hard terrorist) and I couldn't be stopped. I'm in a public area, with a high density area of people.

If anything, the new measures put us all at a greater risk.

Planes are not special, and aren't really a massive target - they are an emotional target - since people generally are slightly nervous and aware that they are travelling in way which depends entirely on the mechanics and physics of a plane. People know that if something goes wrong and there is a crisis on a plane their number is generally up. It's not like you slow down and come to a halt if the engines fail like in a car or a bus.

The London bombings where co-ordinated around the G8 summit because every man and his dog was aware of the huge security operation going on in Gleneagles. They targeted a capital cities infrastructure just like the Madrid bombings.

A terrorist injects terror and fear into the population, and makes them doubt the very things they take for granted on a daily basis, like transport. The UK Goverment implements security measures at the airports so they strike the bus and underground. We spend £millions on bus and underground security measures, and so they blow up a shopping center. We secure a shoping center with a few more £million, and they start attacking theatres and schools (like in Russian with Chechen terrorists).

Repeat, rinse and scare the crap out of everybody.

It is endless, impossible to defend - and is costing every single tax paying person in this country a lot of money. Money that SHOULD be spent on existing problems like health care and hospitals, education and schools, transport infrastucture - railways, roads and motorways.

At some point there has to be a correction in the UK's economy which is currently propped up by overpriced housing, buy-to-let entrepreneurs and mass immigration. The UKs manufacturing industries have gone, our service industries (like call centers and tech support) have gone. We don't produce anything, we don't provide anything - and yet Average Joe is up to his eyeballs in debt.

We need a different approach - we need to stop being emotionally manipulated by the goverment and the media, and we need to find the root cause of the problem. If we are being targeted by terrorists - why is that? How did we get into that situation? Is it jealously of our "freedom" and westernised culture? I don't think it is. I believe it's because we've gone roaming around the world with our Yank cowboy partners killing hundreds of thousands of people in the name of peace and freedom.

No, we should not ever, ever, ever give in or support terrorism.

But the UK does support terrorism (directly and indirectly) when it suits us, we help to fund Israel, we fund and depend upon the USA. We have to depend upon them because we have never had any nuclear deterrrent that we can call our own, we have to lease the stuff from America and thus have become the equivilent of a New York small business that pays for mafia style protection. We are no better that Al-Qaeda, or the IRA, or any of the other thousands of terror groups which exist and will always exist.

I'd like to think that if (hypothetically) we were invaded by Iraq, our country all but destroyed, our goverment over turned and most of our troops and police killed - that the citizens in this country would stand up and fight against the enemy - the people who have invaded and mutilated us and our children.
And I don't understand why the majority of people don't see it the other way around. As long as their Sky TV works and feeds them shitty exported TV series 24/7, as long as they can order 2 kilos of grease to be delivered through their letterbox by a kid on a dominos pizza scooter, as long as they can read the dumb ass media stories that we are righteous and have done nothing wrong - why care or even question what we are told?

Historically people only revolt when they are oppressed and desperate. And in the current climate I can't see this ever happening. The more deaths and suffering we cause in conflicts abroad, the more future generations will be born to be our enemy. We are making things significantly worse for our own future generations - all in the name of short term profit, power and control.

The western world is a fucking disgrace.
 
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When I flew to Corfu the security staff were making mothers drink the baby formula in front of them to prove it was formula. No point is there? It's all about control


Good post Marty!
 
The short of it is, there are no liquids which oxidise like typical explosives that can cause explosions to bring planes down

Erm ... Maybe if you add some clauses such as "easily obtainable" or "undetectable" or "harmless unless mixed" or also specify the exact way in which it brings the plane down you might just get away with that sentence. Petol is a liquid. I'm pretty sure "oxidising" a backpack full of petrol on a plane would cause considerable problems. Also who says it has to be a liquid explosive? Who says it has to explode? Mix two liquids that release toxic fumes and everyone on the plane is dead anyway ...

Your post is mostly just a rant which everyone is entitled to now and again and I will refrain from commenting on most of it but I have to say something about this:

all in the name of short term profit, power and control

I'm not trying to condone any of the action taken by our government over ... well ... pretty much anything since Tony Blair came into power, but submission of "short term profit, power and control" into the wrong hands could be devastating.
 
Yes it was a rant, sorry about that. I do see all of this under the same umbrella though.

They need an explosion, something dramatic, instant and shocking. Otherwise they haven't achieved their ambition of getting everyones attention. Petrol doesn't do the job.

My thoughts about the specific types of liquid explosives the suspects are said to have used which triggered the ban is straight from the link to The Register above. These paragraphs sums it up:

Making a quantity of TATP [triacetone triperoxide] sufficient to bring down an airplane is not quite as simple as ducking into the toilet and mixing two harmless liquids together.

But the Hollywood myth of binary liquid explosives now moves governments and drives public policy. We have reacted to a movie plot. Liquids are now banned in aircraft cabins (while crystalline white powders would be banned instead, if anyone in charge were serious about security).

We have our priorties wrong, petrol (2 litres max, your not going to get a backpack full of it on) would probably cause a huge flame and set fire to people, trigger the fire/sprinkler system - but it doesn't cause massive explosions large enough to blow up planes midair. We're talking about blowing apart tons of overengineered, reinforced metals here - not just toasting isles 1-20.

Theres no reason that any of the terrorists lurking would want to use something as basic as petrol. They could buy a jerry can full of that from any petrol station and set fire to the queue on the outside before it was a problem.

And we already did random/spotchecks on people for explosives. I got stopped on the way back from Belfast and had all of my electronic equipment, belongs and clothes swab tested after the metal detector thing. All my kit out all over the tables, everything wipped down with a bit of sponge and then placed into a weird looking detection machine. Couple of minutes later it pinged and the kind customs woman helped me back everything up again.

If we are banning things, we shouldn't be starting with liquids.