LeagueAS Bug?

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thePROPHET!

Unreal Dreamer of the Year 1985
Jun 8, 2001
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the.boteam.com
Well, where to start.

I´m experiencing since months problems with playing UT on Public and Match Modes.

The problem is simple told: Everytime, or nearly everytime i shoot an enemy with a single shoot from the rocket launcher, instead of damaging him, i launch him around. Same thing happens (but rarely) even with a full load of 6 rockets!

Same goes for Sniper Rifle in water (on Bridge for example), when i´m in water, and i directly shoot the enemy, he doesnt get damaged or killed, only rarely... I see the hit exactly on my screen, but no damaging on the enemy occurs. Hellraiser can prolly confirm that, we had a small fight in water some time ago, we shoot like 15-20 sniper shoots on each other, after that we both go "WTF?"...

I don´t know how exactly i can narrow this problem down, i´m even trying a fresh UT-Install in the next days to see if it´s still there.

I have the feeling those problems where not present in 135. I can´t blame my connection, i have 40-60 F1 and 80-100 F6, so lag shouldn´t be an issue.

Is it just me or is something wrong? I hear the complaints about the rocket bug from many others too.
 
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I have found the "sliding" bug to be a problem in the water. A sniper may drop off the bridge into the water, on my screen he will sink down but he is actualy still on the suface of the water. Also there is a delay on shots in the water, I don't know how much this is nor if it has been changed with 136. After playing with bots aswell I have found that to headshot in the water you have to aim above the head slightly :confused:

Again I have had the same problem with the rockets, I just put it down to being unlucky as sometimes I get instant kill. Alot depends on if they jump when you hit them aswell :takeit::rocket:
 
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Erm, p00f is right, i was saying that in first beta of 136, none wanted to listen..
That admins didint changed anything with weapons doesnt mean bug cant exist, something in league assault is causing it.
When you play DM or CTF rockets works way different like they worked in 135.
There are a few new players from CTF in the league, like toma and i was spoking with him the other day on TS and he noticed that rockets in 'assault' are shite.
Rockets in assault ARE shite, maybe cause its cuz maps are spammy or somat? we miss playing normal games :\
 
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Due to certain circumstances, I have been working on my 'rocket dodging' skills. If some1 empties a load of 6 rockets onto me, I still seem to be able to squeeze myself tru the rockets.
My ping is around 30 (50-60 f6) so it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe because your ping is a tad higher you see the rockets a tad later. Hence I go between them, but on your screen they 'explode' on my body while they actually missed me by miles.

But I do have to agree with the fact: 1 rocket makes you fly, 2 makes you die ;)

And yes, the 'sliding' bug is seen more and more here..
For example riverbedAL. If somebody is high at the main entrance (Where the sniper is) He tends to slide down so he will be at the main entrance (Unhittable) Weird shit.
 
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Is the sniper rifle counted as a projectile weapon? When you fire a rocket you see it moving through the air - projectile. But when you fire a sniper rifle, is there a very fast projectile in the air or is it just straight from rifle to impact? If there is an invisible very fast bullet, the water might slow it down, same as it does to rockets.

Or am I talking pish?
 
pish i think.

Where the server calculates the trajectory of the rocket based on speed, distance etc; i think sniper rifle just registers as a hit if the area is filled with a hitbox.

Polle will no doubt come in now with some techno-babble about temporary network weapons and client replication. :rolleyes: :P

Btw, I may rig up the DoG server this weekend, so we can easily switch between LeagueAS 135, 136 and 137 at the touch of a button... If anyone is interested in testing the Rocket Bounce "issue".
 
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Sniper is a instant hit I think. I had problem with sniper on desertstorm today - he was in the tower before final not moving at all and i hit him several times with no affect... head or body shots did nothing.
could a been lag i guess or summut
 
thePROPHET! said:
Anyway, the sniper bug is really present, look here: http://www.utassault.net/matches/matchinfo.php?matchid=5679
...Let me guess... It was played on Server 7?

tbh; I found the same myself on this server (vs DFP :P)... Started to get into the habbit of aiming to the left a bit, and low-and-behold, the sniper-rifle worked again! :crap:

It's all to-do with ping-indifference I guess. German players on a german server will have a more accurate replication of where other players are (someone please correct me if i'm wrong); compared to UK players where the information has a longer distance to travel. :/

As I said earlier, Polle (and possibly Cratos) will have a more technical overview on how the replication works and what factors affect it... So maybe it's time for their input?
 
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well imho it's all ping related. When english players play on a german server, the english players will keep moaning about lag/ping/xxx and if german players have to play on an english server they will so the same.

It's just a fact that if your ping is a bit higher you have to aim in front of the enemy. I always have to do that since my ping is never better than 80. But I know many lowpingers that say that they never ever aim in front of moving players. Their ping usually is that low that they can always aim exatly on the enemy. If then the ping raises a bit they will of course hit nothing :/

The match vs Suym mentioned above is a good example. All Suym were english players, had bad pings and were moaning that they could hit absolutely nothing. But they had one german player and this player owned with the sniper like hell and told that the server was absolutely fine. So it was just the routing/ping....


and now some techincal input: :D
  • If you want to make a headshot in the water you have to aim above the head of the player, thats no secret. If someone is swimming then the skin is painted horizontal, but the hitbox is still vertikal, so the headshot-area is somewhere above. If you view him from the side and aim at his head you will probably hit nothing at all
  • Flying rockets and their visible explosion are not excatly replicated. If you fire a rocket, the server only sends the startpoint and the direction to the clients, nothing more. The Clients calculate the flight on their own. The worse your connection is, the more unaccurate this simulated flight on the client will be. If the Client now calculates a collision it will show an explosion. This explosion has nothing to do with the real explosion and it's effects on the server. It's only what the client 'thinks'. Therefore you may get two effects:

    a) The client thinks the rocket hits another player, but on the server it misses him. You will then see a local explosion that never existed on the server --> "FFS I shot 6 rockets right in his arse and nothing happens. He just runs through my rockets"

    b) The client thinks that the rockets miss, but on the server the rockets do hit. So the client doesn't recognize the hit and no explosion is spawned, but the damage is there of course --> "FFS I was killed by invisible rockets! I dodged away and the rockets missed me, but I died"

  • Displaying Players in wrong position / Sniping players with no effect:
    Players positions are mainly stored on the server, but also 'simulated'. If the players in your client UT would only be painted if you get a new position for them from the server, they would move very unsmooth through the maps. But since the movement of players is predictable ('player-physics'), the Client can interpolate and simulate the positions while there is no input from the server. But of course this simulation can fail. The worse you connection is, the more the simmulation will get unaccurate.

    Example: If someone is walking towards an edge and stops there to snipe. This is the situation that occures on the Server and is replicated to the Clients. If you now miss the packet where the info about the exact stop signal was in, the player will move a bit further on your simulation. If the player is over the edge on your client, your clientside simulation will paint him falling down and then paint him standing on the bottom, since that's what the client expects it to do. So you can see the the player standing at the bottom, while in 'reality' he is still 'invisible' on the top and sniping. Of course you can shoot that shadow of a player hundred times and he will not die. And as long as the player does not move, this position will not get corrected cause only data-changes are transmitted

    Similar effects can (rarely) happen on horrizontal grounds aswell. If your connection (or the enemy connection) is very bad it may happen that the player is not exactly painted correctly on your client. You shoot at a (standing still) player but you can't hit him, cause he is painted next to his 'real' position. When he moves again the position will get corrected and you can hit him again.

    If the connection interrupts while the player is moving, the clients will keep simulating this movment until another input arrives. That is the typical 'sliding' of players. Your clients doesnt get any input and therfore just continues the movement...
 
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Thanks, Cratos.

But i still doesn´t understand why i´m experiencing the problems since some months, as far as i can remember, early 2004 all was fine... All Servers i´m playing on those days are causing me those troubles...

Today in a Pro-AS Match i´ve experienced something new, a flak ball in someones face (!!) didn´t do any damage at all!

Now, it can´t be the stuff u described above.. i really want to play on a 135 or non-LeagueAS Server for cross-checking...
 
Minigun was terrible tonight seemed like i was only firing 5 bullets a second of something was totally useless even with 70 f6 ping server 1 ? i think we left in end cause it was terrible to play and has been for a while maybe u have'nt changed weapons but somehow leagueas is lagging people and therefore there not seeing people in the psotion they are, but it has to be said that since 136 and up weapons and servers have acted really odd..

Not a flame just what i noticed..
 
Cratos said:
The match vs Suym mentioned above is a good example. All Suym were english players, had bad pings and were moaning that they could hit absolutely nothing. But they had one german player and this player owned with the sniper like hell and told that the server was absolutely fine. So it was just the routing/ping....
let me see:
bitch, necro, xb7 and hornet are german
krieger and faggot are danes
vince and despise are dutch
so the only english player that match was Chipz.....

which german sniper? all germans listed are far from snipers lol (hrmm, didnt listed sobo tho.)

anyway, it not only happened on maps with water like bridge, but happened to me on golgothaAL too. There was a sniper standing still at the cave, i fired at least 8 bullets straight at him, nothing happened. Now that is frustrating (ok, i suck with sniper. but after the furst 4 miss i really tried to aim (standing still also lol)).
 
sobo was the one that seemed to be able to snipe without any problems....


Some questions I will never understand:

* 8 Headhots without any effect? Why did you not send a demo to an admin or developer?
* Why did we NEVER EVER receive NOT ONE SINGLE demo since the start (about 1 YEAR ago)?
 
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thePROPHET! said:
But i still doesn´t understand why i´m experiencing the problems since some months, as far as i can remember, early 2004 all was fine... All Servers i´m playing on those days are causing me those troubles...

Today in a Pro-AS Match i´ve experienced something new, a flak ball in someones face (!!) didn´t do any damage at all!

Now, it can´t be the stuff u described above.. i really want to play on a 135 or non-LeagueAS Server for cross-checking...


same here

i pld on a few DM servers the last time, and the playin is way diffrent to AS
the rockets are weird in AS....like proph said

Paa` said:
maybe u have'nt changed weapons but somehow leagueas is lagging people and therefore there not seeing people in the psotion they are, but it has to be said that since 136 and up weapons and servers have acted really odd..

Not a flame just what i noticed..

indeed :\

Cratos said:
Some questions I will never understand:

* 8 Headhots without any effect? Why did you not send a demo to an admin or developer?
* Why did we NEVER EVER receive NOT ONE SINGLE demo since the start (about 1 YEAR ago)?

cause my demo manager stoped to work since 136....and i´m to lazy to fix it :P



i asked 4 such a 135-136 or "non league" test a few weeks ago ....:eyeroll:

maybe the cheat-protection + diffrent countries (pings) make these diffrent "play-feelings" :confused:
 
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Snuggs said:
cause my demo manager stoped to work since 136....and i´m to lazy to fix it :P
you are too lazy to spend some minutes to get your demomanager to work and help the league with contructive input but you have plenty of time to repeatedly post stuff against it.

disappointing :(
 
Cratos said:
you are too lazy to spend some minutes to get your demomanager to work and help the league with contructive input but you have plenty of time to repeatedly post stuff against it.

disappointing :(

not only to lazy m8....

i´m very busy with RL stuff atm :\

i have to put time in my own lil advertising business

+ my 2nd lil business....i´m "managing" party´s (mean´s : flyers, dj booking, working stuff....and and and)

no time to play with UT-settings,no time 4 mapping and no time to play matches for DoG atm :(


i´m glad that i can jump on DFP or RC for 1 or 2 hours from time to time....to "relax" a bit
 
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thePROPHET! said:
Same goes for Sniper Rifle in water (on Bridge for example), when i´m in water, and i directly shoot the enemy, he doesnt get damaged or killed, only rarely... I see the hit exactly on my screen, but no damaging on the enemy occurs. Hellraiser can prolly confirm that, we had a small fight in water some time ago, we shoot like 15-20 sniper shoots on each other, after that we both go "WTF?"...
he a laggy target. got some weird personal lag, not just in water i can shoot sniper straight through him. water is pretty bad though, i have same problem with lamina but not as much and she is better. Its like some players have half a sec positional lag or something while their aim doesnt seem to be effected with a lag of similar magnitude. Kill some swaps much easier than those 2, because they mostly dont lag so. Very different from player to player on same server.
Doubt its 136 or 137 doing it, unless its acting completely weird on *their* machines.
 
Cratos said:
* Why did we NEVER EVER receive NOT ONE SINGLE demo since the start (about 1 YEAR ago)?
Because ppl dont turn on demorec by default on publics? and when they notice they need it its usually too late and they forget to turn it on next time they play.
 
anyway on the topic of the rl launching bug, i DO have a demo, from a trial we conducted in BiB a long time ago.
demo shows i get hit by a rocket, but, afair, i take no damage at all and certainly dotn die from it.
Just pm/query whatever if you want to study it.