European constitution

[Paa`]

Dunno about you deadboy but i live in london and costs are extremely high even for a average 3 bedroom place

Total outgoings per week for my family's house in london is around £750 then you need money for living/going out/buying stuff.

The job i do is fairly well payed it's not great but it's better than average.

 

[Paa`]

Btw the fact i read the sun does'nt make any difference to anything i do, dont be so stereotypical.

I usually tend to read through most newspapers while at work.

 

[Paa`]

I just wish this "EU" would break apart and leave each country to there own doings.

If your country cannot survive without handouts from others then what's the point? people have become far too lazy.

This also applies to african nations, however i think africa has it's problems ( currupt leaders ) why not take these people away and put a fair and honest goverment in ?

And if they dont want that dont interfere with there country at all full stop. no handouts nothing leave em be.

 

[-CrackKing-]

Sorry but I agree with Paa about working hours in London. Lots of people I know do over 40 hours, and I myself did near enough 50 for 2 years. And don't gimme some bulllshit about go to uni and it'll all be ok (which I am anyway but that's besides the point). My m8 has just finished at UCL and can only get bar work. We had a sales assistant's position going spare about 3 months ago and over 100 people applied, many with degrees and decent grades. It pays £9000 a year gross. That's pathetic money... especially for London.

On a more topic related point, can somebody tell me what the UK or even Germany gets from the EU?

 

[Ice]

immigrants

 

[Cutter]

On a more topic related point, can somebody tell me what the UK or even Germany gets from the EU?

Constant grief from the French? More hot air from Wint?

@Ice - if you have a single currency for all nations on the European continent, this will not work without harmonised taxes and economic regulations. Which means you have de facto political union as well. One will bring the other.

@ Deadboy - the lefty-commie BBC figures also tend to show that the UK is a net contributor to the "EU". Re: house prices - London is the capital of the UK. Prices are always higher in the capital. Britain is also an island, with a finite supply of readily useable land. Unchanging amount of land + rising population = higher land costs. Home ownership (with or without a mortgage) is much higher (on average) in the UK than in most mainland European countries, and property plays a much greater role in the UK economy than in most mainland European countries.

@Wint - so, a globalised, free trading world? Hmm. And yet, the French & Dutch voted "no" because (amongst other reasons) they wanted to go back to a more protectionist Europe and halt the spread of "robber baron anglo-saxon capitalist globalisation". Funny that. Even more amusing given that the constitution they were voting on was drafted by a lefty, statist Frenchman.

So Britain doesn't want to give up its rebate. Do I hear France proposing to renounce all the money it gets from the CAP? (it is the single biggest beneficiary of the CAP, which accounts for 40% of the total EU Budget).

Do I hear Spain and Ireland offering to stop accepting the massive EU handouts which have dragged their economies and infrastructure from medieval argicultural economies into the modern age, and which they no longer need?

Thought not.

 

[IBM]

!delete!

 

[L0cky]

If your country cannot survive without handouts from others then what's the point? people have become far too lazy.

This also applies to african nations, however i think africa has it's problems ( currupt leaders )

and drought, famine, the world's largest aids epidemic, poor agricultural prospects, next to zero education, no technological skills, human rights abuses funded by western diamond traders, suppresive debt from corrupt loan agreements and genocide. Most Africans have to work extremely hard just to stay alive let alone make any money.

I don't think 'lazy' was the right word m8.

 

[Martz]

I've avoided this debate because I don't really hold any views on the EU, and if we (the UK) should join or not. I seriously doubt we'll get a referendum on the issue now that some countries have set the precedent of voting no. I'm not very interested in the euro as a currency, but the UK would be weaker if it was out of the EU on it's own. If I remember correctly, collectively the EU is the biggest market in the world, even compared to Asia and the Americas.

Thb i'm slowly losing my faith in UE couse since we joined almost everything goes more expensive but monthly payment doesn't changed.
Gasoline, internet, food ..... european standards fs. Earnings are definitely NOT european standards here in Poland.

Now this is interesting to me because at the company I work for, we have employeed some 50+ Polish people this year alone. I chat to some of the smokers on my break times and through their broken English found out that the UK offers a lot of potential for earnings compared to back in Poland.

Which leads me too..

Immigration
I don't think its a a big issue, I think it's the hyped sensational story which has been selling news papers for far too long. It's the wrong issue for everyone to be focusing on.. "the fear of the foreigners".

But as a nation we are probably dependant on immigration to create the "new class" of citizen/employee. This seems to be anyone who comes into the UK and gets a job. They are clever guys, smart people, yet earning minimum wage - part time - cleaning bed rooms and moving suit cases. The only people who apply for our low paid jobs at the moment are the Polish.

And of couse businesses all over the UK benefit from this "new working class" that we now officially import into the country. If it wasn't for these people, there would be less middle management style jobs for the white working class, and a lot more of "us" would be flipping burgers, unemployeed and cleaning hotel rooms.

The same goes for the US. The Texas border with Mexico is something silly like 600 miles long. A grand total of 2 Customs Officers are responsible for this zone, and they sit and play cards all day in the sun. The US would fall to pieces if immigration was properly controlled, since the immigrants are the people providing all of the hard work these days in the core of Americans small businesses and multi-nationals

Put into a bad situation, people will do any job to survive if they have too. And this seems slightly explotive to me!

Maybe I'd like us to join the EU and lose control over some of our major policies. It would be nice if the UK couldn't make unilateral moves such as the decision to bomb the crap out of Iraq, with a country on the other side of the world, rather than side with our neighbours.

 

[Ice]

EU sucks , German Politik sucks, Euro sucks , and please German stop let in @ll asia islamabds where dont learn German Spreak and become @ll money , when i go France , nl , china or another state and dont Learn this Spreak so i need become money or a job........ and Please US usw Stop Stole my money For a Shitt where is 75 Year argo ..... or you wannt next war..... i can say i life in German , i'm not Nazi i work Hard 50-60 Houre per weeck become 50% frome Money Rest become State , and normal eat is Realy big buyet zb for a diner .... you mut have 150 euro per weeck for eat .......... Rest frome German Politic sucks and this Year November we become more Rasist in Parlament ........Europe .... my room is here and i see here a Proplem bevor we become Ghettos we in France usw we go and fight for Freedom and eat.... This here in The Moment is Pure Kapitalismus and dont Men wannt this shitt pure slaves here ........ pld soorryy for my English German have massive Proplems and next polical here wannt 100 % or nothing ..... i see a next War

move this to chit chat so i can reply?

 

[foxy]

Immigration
I don't think its a a big issue, I think it's the hyped sensational story which has been selling news papers for far too long. It's the wrong issue for everyone to be focusing on.. "the fear of the foreigners".

Immigration is probably the only way to maintain the population now in Scotland. Birth/emmigration rate lower than death/immegration rates in all cities except Aberdeen last year I saw in one newspaper. Obviously an aging and declining population is rather bad for the economy.

The only thing bugs me is the "short term" outlook of most scottish/uk institutions - we already have a problem with many of scotlands most talented/skilled people leaving....what do the universities etc do....get more foreign postgrad students in and train them to a high level rather than take scottish students who pay less fees. Then most of these students leave and go back home!...


....try fill the pockets for today and forget all about tomorrow....actually I think that sums up most political attitudes pretty well!

 

[Joko]

agree with that. Edinburgh Uni is defo guilty of it.

 

[Wintermute]

Just a wee addendum from me, less structured argument, more just comments on what has been said.

The UK's rebate from the EU budget is a historical hangover, and should go - but only when the CAP is scrapped (preferably) or reformed.

IMO The Common Agricutural Policy is bad on just about every level - it stymies global trade, preventing thrid world farmers from accessing our markets, it maintains an agrarian society rather than encouraging scientific and technical
innovation.

Scots in particular have done very well out of the EU. I would expect that Londoners especially would feel bad about the situation (and they do!). Successive UK governments have regarded Scotland (and wales to a lesser extent) as a quaint little holiday park - minimal investment in infrastructure, second priority in all matters of industry (when BSC closed a steel works, you just knew it was Ravenscraig for the chop, not Port Talbot or Llanwernn!). For long enough, Scotland was able to get money from the UK government via European funds much easier than they could directly.

As for "what does the UK get out of the EU"... we get a little protection from the morons and imbeciles of the UK Civil Service. The most incompetent set of inbreeds ever to slouch across the earth that cripple and derail every good thing that politicians try to do!

anyways, it's a fairly pointless debate whilst we have "president blair" in Number 10 - no amount of publid debate will convince that tosser to even consider an opinion other than his own.

 

[HUEY]

if turkey joins the EU, i'm out

Where are you gunna go??

 

[^Ice^]

not telling

 

[Bart]

EU sucks , German Politik sucks, Euro sucks , and please German stop let in @ll asia islamabds where dont learn German Spreak and become @ll money , when i go France , nl , china or another state and dont Learn this Spreak so i need become money or a job........ and Please US usw Stop Stole my money For a Shitt where is 75 Year argo ..... or you wannt next war..... i can say i life in German , i'm not Nazi i work Hard 50-60 Houre per weeck become 50% frome Money Rest become State , and normal eat is Realy big buyet zb for a diner .... you mut have 150 euro per weeck for eat .......... Rest frome German Politic sucks and this Year November we become more Rasist in Parlament ........Europe .... my room is here and i see here a Proplem bevor we become Ghettos we in France usw we go and fight for Freedom and eat.... This here in The Moment is Pure Kapitalismus and dont Men wannt this shitt pure slaves here ........ pld soorryy for my English German have massive Proplems and next polical here wannt 100 % or nothing ..... i see a next War

omg lol

 

[Twonko]

Which leads me too.

Immigration
I don't think its a a big issue, I think it's the hyped sensational story which has been selling news papers for far too long. It's the wrong issue for everyone to be focusing on.. "the fear of the foreigners".

Not a problem unless the UK economy takes a dive and we end up with high unemployment. Low paid immigrant labour will then become a drain on state benefits I'm still in favour of freedom of movement for eurozone workers, I just think it could come at a price and if it does, racism will rear its head. We live in interesting times.