Defending Freedom of Opinion, Speech and Press!

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bartio said:
And why should we control our press, only because they have problems with it?
Over the last years i saw (funny and good) cartoons about USA/Bush, but i couldn't see such riots in the USA.

I don't believe the feeling is to control the pres.....just get them to behave like considerate adults.

The cartoons you saw were funny because:

a> you understood them
b> because you understood them, could see they were "tongue-in-cheek"
c> the people involved in the cartoons know they are "tongue-in-cheek" and so pay no attention
d> the people not involved or dont understand are not interested


the muslim cartoons are not funny because:

a> the majority did not understand them
b> therefore the majority do not understand them to be "tongue-in-cheek"
c> the people involved in the cartoons do not see them as "tongue-in-cheek"

we have no concept of what "true faith & belief" is and so have no concept of just how offended these people were. People should stop comparing them to the way we are.

our world is not that great.......society is selfish, the press are spiteful and want to put people down. I find it rather sad that, although there is good news out there, nice stories that bring a lump to your throat and a tear to your eye, they dont get reported because they dont sell papers.

I think we are summed up rather well when Agent Smith compares the human race to a virus. "Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet."
 
As a non-muslim, I respect the fact that no muslim would ever have drawn those cartoons, but I'm not offended by them, since muslim is not a faith I follow.

So why can't muslims respect the fact that the people who drew the cartoons aren't of the muslim faith, and so therefore aren't obliged to refrain from drawing such cartoons?

If I was a muslim, I would be enraged if another muslim had drawn the cartoons, but not if someone of any other religion, especially since I'd have the sense to know that it's not the hugely-overblown, disrespectful attack on Islam that they're making it out to be. For god's sake, it's just a cartoon.

Muslims have a right to ridicule Christianity if they want, or any other religion, since surely the fact that they believe in Islam infers that they think all other religions are a load of bollocks. And the same goes for the relationship between any religions - believing in one precludes belief in any others, and so no-one is obliged to take anyone else's religion seriously.
 
the point is

religion is just shit
religion that want to "rule" all peeps is just utter shit

and islam is the biggest shit of everything


that´s my opinion :o
 
Useless said:
If I was a muslim,

But you're not, and so you, me and everyone else in this thread can have no idea how these people feel. You keep saying how YOU would have responded. It's not YOU, it's THEM.

I agree with Snuggs in principal that religions generally suck. I don't understand the concept of believing in something that is so completely unbelievable. BUT that does not mean I ridicule those who find comfort/strength in religion. I respect the right for a person to believe what he/she wants no matter how bizzare it may appear to me.
 
Thrasher (_!_) said:
I respect the right for a person to believe what he/she wants no matter how bizzare it may appear to me.

Maybe the rioting muslims should take a leaf out of your book then.
 
Thrasher (_!_) said:
I respect the right for a person to believe what he/she wants no matter how bizzare it may appear to me.

So you respect this right for people who believe in something that doesn't want to allow others (ie. YOU) to believe whatever they want?
 
to me this whole discussion is too theoretical - many argue that we should be able to publish cartoons about all religions without riots and stuff
yes in a perfect world... but we all know this isnt a perfect world, hence we should act more practically
some seem to be obessed to defend their right to make fun of other religions the same way some muslims fight for their koran...

again, we gain nothing by these cartoons but some laughs and some riots
let muslims learn themselves why freedom of speech is a good thing
 
-CrackKing- said:
Maybe the rioting muslims should take a leaf out of your book then.

Novel interpretation :| Once again you respond to the reaction rather than the cause. You only see fault in their anger and not in the publication that caused it.


Ice said:
So you respect this right for people who believe in something that doesn't want to allow others (ie. YOU) to believe whatever they want?

and they are wanting me to not believe in what ?


You guys are really threatened by the muslims aren't you ? Something you don't understand makes you feel uncertain. That's understandable as some of them seem quite happy to die for their cause and that is just illogical captain.

I don't understand them anymore than you......and acceptance to die is a bit too much. But although I don't understand them, I accept their reaction, I can only assume by the size of the reaction that their hurt goes deep.
 
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Thrasher (_!_) said:
and they are wanting me to not believe in what ?
Thrasher (_!_) said:
I respect the right for a person to believe what he/she wants no matter how bizzare it may appear to me.

Do you really think that if they were in a leading position they'd allow you to think like that? Their whole regime tells me that they won't, seeing as they are not really liberal towards christians inside their countries. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/22/bush/index.html)

You can't seriously respect the belief of people who do not respect (and by respecting I mean treating all people the same way) others beliefs in return. Doesn't make any sense to me at least.
I hope you realize that even though you try to defend them, if it were for them they would destroy you for thinking the way you do.

____________________

Thrasher (_!_) said:
I can only assume by the size of the reaction that their hurt goes deep.

Either their hurt or their stupidity. Religion in my opinion is a stupidity all by itself so this case is pretty clear.
 
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Snuggs said:
the point is

religion is just shit
religion that want to "rule" all peeps is just utter shit

and islam is the biggest shit of everything


that´s my opinion :o
:nod: so true, so true :nod:
 
Thrasher (_!_) said:
But you're not, and so you, me and everyone else in this thread can have no idea how these people feel. You keep saying how YOU would have responded. It's not YOU, it's THEM.

I agree with Snuggs in principal that religions generally suck. I don't understand the concept of believing in something that is so completely unbelievable. BUT that does not mean I ridicule those who find comfort/strength in religion. I respect the right for a person to believe what he/she wants no matter how bizzare it may appear to me.

I agree with your last sentence, but not everyone does. And apparently this includes the muslims who rioted about this cartoon. You and I both respect that the muslims believe in the prophet and that he should not be represented in a comic way. They obviously don't respect that we don't believe in the prophet, and that we couldn't care less how he's represented.

It's one thing to make this cartoon as a deliberate attempt to offend Islam, as if it's a direct attack. But it wasn't - it's just a humorous example of the freedom of speech which some parts of the world have and others don't. Freedom of speech means just that, and so, if cartoons like this are 'not allowed' or 'against Allah' or whatever, where does it end? Who is to say what's allowed and what isn't? Freedom of speech has to mean 100%, or else it doesn't mean anything. Which is why it should be OK imo for a country like Denmark (I think it was Denmark?) to publish a cartoon like this.

If making cartoons of the prophet is such a crime, as the muslims clearly feel it is, then why stop there? Why isn't worshipping Buddha an even worse crime? Why aren't the muslisms rioting about the existence of Christians all over the world? These religions aren't exactly respectful of the Islam faith either, are they? To believe in one God or higher power is to deny the existence of all others, but one little cartoon is worse than that? At least the cartoon didn't deny the prophet's authenticity.

What makes muslims so special that one cartoon can spark mass riots of righteousness? Maybe I was asleep when Christians all over the world began similar riots after Madonna's Like A Prayer video. And so on.

This is starting to sound like I'm anti-muslim, but I'm not specifically (though I am pretty certainly anti-mass religion, for obvious reasons). My point is basically that for stuff like this not to happen, everyone has to have a certain amount of respect for everyone else's beliefs. Maybe the muslims feel like the makers of that cartoon weren't respecting their religion - well maybe the muslims weren't respecting the makers' rights to freedom of speech. And before people start getting up-in-arms about how other people are behaving, surely they have to make sure that their own behaviour is impeccable first.
 
Useless said:
If making cartoons of the prophet is such a crime, as the muslims clearly feel it is, then why stop there? Why isn't worshipping Buddha an even worse crime? Why aren't the muslisms rioting about the existence of Christians all over the world? These religions aren't exactly respectful of the Islam faith either, are they? To believe in one God or higher power is to deny the existence of all others, but one little cartoon is worse than that? At least the cartoon didn't deny the prophet's authenticity.


I just got back from the Maldives...nice place, and it's a Muslim country. IT'S ILLEGAL TO IMPORT STATUES OF BUDDHA THERE !!!!!...How hypocritical is that??? Can you imagine the shit that would hit the fan if European countries banned the importing of a Koran or summit similar??
 
Useless said:
If making cartoons of the prophet is such a crime, as the muslims clearly feel it is, then why stop there? Why isn't worshipping Buddha an even worse crime? Why aren't the muslisms rioting about the existence of Christians all over the world? These religions aren't exactly respectful of the Islam faith either, are they? To believe in one God or higher power is to deny the existence of all others, but one little cartoon is worse than that? At least the cartoon didn't deny the prophet's authenticity.
They dont stop there.
Afghan on trial for Christianity: 1 2
 
HUEY said:
I just got back from the Maldives...nice place, and it's a Muslim country. IT'S ILLEGAL TO IMPORT STATUES OF BUDDHA THERE !!!!!...How hypocritical is that??? Can you imagine the shit that would hit the fan if European countries banned the importing of a Koran or summit similar??
Welcome to Islam my friend.
There can only be one.