'chat room' grooming

[Martz]

A subject raised on a regular basis, and a couple of times in the past on these forums. Protecting children when using the internet and chat rooms from peodophiles and other dodgy f00kers.

The BBC have an article on their site today.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3789279.stm

Police around the world are planning to monitor conversations on internet chat rooms so they can stop paedophiles from grooming their victims over the web.


The idea emerged at a two-day summit in London of the Virtual Global Task Force, set up six months ago to make the internet safer for young people. Police in the UK, US and Australia will make use of the different time zones to monitor the web 24 hours a day.

First of all, my opinion is that this is a pointless attempt to try and control the millions of chat rooms that exist around the world, our IRC network being one of them. There is no way that they could have at least 1 person on our IRC network, in all the channels 24 hours a day. And our IRC network is tiny in comparission to most.

So, suppose they only direct their attentions towards the main chat networks like Undernet, Quakenet, Nickelodeon chat etc. They would require a massive force to monitor just what is going on in the public areas. This will force the grooming and other nastieness into either private messages or channels which are invite only/access controlled. Since the bigger networks are the only ones being monitored, the activities of these people will become fragmented across lots of smaller networks which will make it even more difficult - pushing the problem underground and out of sight.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be quite supportive of a system which would prevent/catch a single peodophile from abusing a minor, regardless of the costs involved... i.e. £5 million. But I think the plans and intentions of the police are ill-advised, who is putting the idea into their head that they could sucessfully monitor the entire internet?.... even 1 chat network?... they haven't done their home work on this one. And to anyone who uses IRC or a chat network, this will be blatantly obvious.

So who the hell is making these descisions?

Would you be happy for the police to monitor your internet connectivity and any any site you visit to prevent child abuse? I would be.. as long as if someone was wrongly investigated, they wouldn't be prosecuted for other unrelated offenses such as copyright violations for trading MP3's, for example.

 

[Op1uM]

CACP
Cr@cker Against Child Pornography

 

[RocK]

maybe they could protect people on utassault.net but qnet theres no way its the biggest irc in the world

 

[IceDragon]

maybe they could protect people on utassault.net but qnet theres no way its the biggest irc in the world

paedophiles on utassault??????????? sad.....

All stupid jokes besides,
I believe it's a nice idea to control chatrooms, i read an article bout it recently.
Some folks designed a proggie that sniffes after paedo...... in chatrooms and it actually works out fine the cops already caught some ugly guys.

 

[-CrackKing-]

I imagine the people who thought up the idea and those who heard it have no idea how big the 'net is, let alone what IRC or ICQ etc is.

 

[Lex_Mortis]

There is no way to monitor all that... simply impossible due to the size of the internet/chat stuff.
And besides that, thats a huge privacy violation.. even if they dont monitor non-sex chats, they still have the option to do monitor it. And I dont like the idea that anyone could read the stuff I write to friends or anything. Plus if you start here.. you open the door to these ideas, everybody knows it will go downhill for privacy after that, whats next? Search/monitor/arrest for hackers? crackers? mp3 sharers? People who disagree with the .gov? Where will/could that end?
In the end this project will fail and you end up with no privacy left.
And on a side note... who monitors the monitoringpeople?

Please understand that I dont support paedophiles or anything.. but this isnt the right way to fight it.

Edit:
Addendum: If this kind of thing would be indeed launched, I would make some agreement with friends to encrypt/decrypt our PM's for example..

 

[uZi]

I expect what theyll do is monitor for certain words.. like catching 2 paedophiles chatting or something.. but tbh thats gonna pick up so many false positives its pointless

waste of time imo

 

[Lex_Mortis]

bash.org shows that irc is a sick yet fun place.. catching specific words wont get em anywhere except their own silly bash.org-clone database

 

[BBStr@nge]

Martz I think u may be a bit off the idea here m8.
Analogy is not for u necessarily, but for all:

If u go fishing and want to catch big fish or a certain type of fish, you go to well stocked rivers or ponds that give you the best chance of catching your chosen quarry - empty bodies of water hold no appeal.
You may try and fish them once, but if u dont catch u will go elsewhere.

Paedophiles are attracted to their prey in the same way - and they may log into an irc chatroom like #utassault
but (and I am resisting the urge for piss-taking here m8!) they will find slim pickings. The deviants will head for the major chatrooms with a supply of what they are looking for - Police are not talking about automated bots, but having trained officers patrol chatrooms in the way they would elsewhere irl.
Officers who are skilled in working with dangerous and intelligent paedophiles and can spot grooming or the onset of it.

As for pushing the problem underground and out of sight - it is already there and in order for some of the atrocities that are commited against children, these people must have a sophisticated network of contacts already in operation.

The Police are responding positively to a growing problem and have to start somewhere. They will never be able to monitor every dark corner of the internet. But do u see a police officer on the corner of your street 24/7 just in case a crime is commited? Of course not, they will be deployed in areas where they are deemed to be most effective. They may not get it right first time but it is good that they are doing something about it.

 

[Andy]

Re:

I have to agree with BB here, they have to be seen to be doing something, even if people in the know believe it is a fruitless persuit. To the average parent who knows nothing about IRC networks this is a step in the right direction, even I belive it is. If it catches just 1 of them at it it will have been worth it no?


<BB> So Andy how old are you?
<Andy> Im 12 sir
<BB> interesting, are you english
<Andy> yes i am from the north
<BB> do you like puppies
<Andy> from wigan to be precise
<BB> fuck that you dirty pie eater!
BB has left bum chat!

 

[Apoc]

They proberly just plan to monitor pupular meeting places for young people. Whitch I think is great. some "random" patrolling is good aswell. the f00kers should never feel "safe" on the net.

 

[Cutter]

Would you be happy for the police to monitor your internet connectivity and any any site you visit to prevent child abuse?

They can already do this. Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. Here's a test for you: Send an email to your ISP, asking them what information they routinely pass regarding you and your usage habits/email etc to HM Government or the Security Services. Bet they "decline to answer" that one...

I would be.. as long as if someone was wrongly investigated, they wouldn't be prosecuted for other unrelated offenses such as copyright violations for trading MP3's, for example.

RIPA ( http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm ) is specifically drafted to allow fishing expeditions. s.22(2)h, s.28(3)g etc. You can and would be prosecuted for any unrelated offences which turned up during the investigation.

But do u see a police officer on the corner of your street 24/7 just in case a crime is commited? Of course not, they will be deployed in areas where they are deemed to be most effective.

Had to laugh when I saw this. Do you ever see bobbies on the beat any more? And I'm not talking about at major airports in the wake of a security scare, or clustered around speed cameras on the safest stretches of motorway in the UK waiting for a chance to fill their and [insert relevant local council's name here]'s coffers?

Its a nice idea, and targeting large public areas where people congregate online looks effective at first sight. But surely the paedo's would either be aware of this, or else try to coax/lure/whatever the youngsters into a private/non-public room or area? Or onto a totally seperate and unpoliced network?

IMHO, what is needed is parents actually spending some time with their kids, educating them on life's dangers and how to look after themselves, and not using a net connected PC like the TV is often used - as a way for "can't be arsed parents" to get the kids "out of their hair".

Mind, I don't hold out much hope for that, given the vast numbers of adult people who still fall for the most blantantly obvious email scams etc...

 

[uZi]

in regards to your pop at "bobbies on the beat" thur, i see police walkin around my area. Although its more common to see em driving past, slow down, look at ya in a nasty way then carry on once theyre satisfied theyve done their duty

Tbh i reckon this could be a good thing actually, like whoever it was said, if they catch one theyve made a difference, so it was worth it, i wouldnt mind that being my job, sit on irc all day and get paid? 1 better than i do now!

 

[Andy]

Re:

Had to laugh when I saw this. Do you ever see bobbies on the beat any more? And I'm not talking about at major airports in the wake of a security scare, or clustered around speed cameras on the safest stretches of motorway in the UK waiting for a chance to fill their and [insert relevant local council's name here]'s coffers?

Yeah i do everyday tbh in the town centres and surrounding.