AS-LostTemple

[Despise]

Disclaimer: Only my opinion, feel free to ignore all of this, it's just my first impressions and a proper play test should be arranged.

In general

Positive Points
+ The map looks great and its nice and big!
+ Destroyable AND touch objectives
+ Not 5 million fkin defence teleports that confuse you and make you dizzy (see Desolate)
+ Sneaky routes and launching potential!

Negative Points
- Some weapon and ammo placement are a bit unnatural. People like having a natural movement from spawn to pick up all their weapons and ammo .... see Grz' maps. It's much more annoying running round in circles just to pick up 2 guns and some ammo. (see Desolate again)

I already noticed that some are a bit off, is already being fixed.

- Lifts in defence spawn are gonna get frustrating as hell. If you wanna slow defence down can't you just make tunnel a bit longer? Nothing more annoying than waiting for a lift, especially one that small, think of Golgo2 attack when 1 person goes on each lift and ur left saying ... ahhh fook.

True got annoyed myself aswell, added it to give att a lil more time. But your right it will get annoying even tho its not a slow lift.

-Something I would like to see with this map is maybe twisting it around so that the bridge is somewhere over the outside area much like AS-bridge. At the moment it seems pretty linear and quite a lot of running.

Well ehm do you want me to build in cars to stop you from walking? Running is quite common in this game

OK. I'll go through by objectives.

[First Objective - Temple Breach]
The way the map is at the moment the defence are gonna push right up to the waterfront and mini the shit outta the attackers so they cant launch. Defence also have plenty of minigun ammo all around to let them keep pushing to waterfront wave after wave. They also have 2x thigh pads if they look behind them in low spawns. In my opinion you want the main fight to be around that big rock just outside of temple so defence can snipe from the rock and attack can try launch over it.

Defence only spawns at the thighpads for the first 30sec, after that they are moved back to spawn near the bridge. No need to get first objective to move back def spawn. So that aint gonna be a problem.

The problem is that the attackers are slowed down so much by the water, then they have to fight their way up a hill full of miniguns which ain't gonna be easy. I love the idea of the water but you need to slow down the defence so the attackers JUST have enough time to set up a launch before the defence bong them ... just like the start of ballistic with the fence.

Also PLEASE give us a sniper in the low spawn, just having flak and mini is gonna be annoying when enemy can be far away, I don't wanna hammer up high just for a sniper!

Well I didnt wanne make the entrance a sniper heaven, but ill think about it.

[2nd objective - Bridge]
Attackers spawn - could you move the minigun back a bit onto the stairs of the temple, the number of times I dodged over it and had to go back a few steps grr.

You can single launch outside up to high from the statue bit which is nice, also the boots will help. Can get thigh pads if you go low, but again if you go low there is no tracer weapon to attack that long bridge with, could be very difficult even with the alternate routes.

The defence also have no tracer weapon so they are gonna push forward again which could be nice as you wouldn't have the problem of all the attackers hanging back but may also get boring running half way up that hill then getting miniraped and then repeat. IMO you need tracer weapons.

On bridge you can go normal route, you can go high which aint to hard to get to with boots or a easy hammerlaunch outside. After 1min 2 new routes open up on either side which end up near the slime below the bridge. So after 1min its gonna be hard to keep defending it. So imo there is no problem with attacking the bridge.

[3rd Objective - Chains]

Attacking if you single launch onto the roof of that building where the sniper is can you triple launch into the sniper window by the cross, then drop down and open tomb without getting chains? The way the cross is shaped makes it very hard to land on the top and drop down into the window so your launch would have to be pretty much spot on. Will also make it a bit more tricky to rocket launch into there after the chains are done

You can boot jump into the chains sniper nest on each side if you can be arsed going back to the start if not you can drop down low behind the first tower and do hammer launches from there or something. The slope on the pillars might make a single dodge launch possible to the nests. Once ur in the nests its very nice cos you can drop down either side or take the risk of the ilft making it hard for defence to just spam the bottom of lift with rockets.

The room is so big its hard to tell how its gonna be played. I would imagine most clans would forget about one of the chains and concentrate most their defence on just one chain and then have on or two snipers. People arent gonna try mini fight outside cos ur just gonna get sniped. Again could you move the minigun at defence forward a bit so i dont keep dodging over it

Yeah there is enuff launches to be thought of in the temple, Im thinking about adding a pair of jumpboots for attackers after like 1min tho. So defence will have to keep organised to hold it for long. Yeah that minigun is badly placed. But Im gonna make a small spawnroom for the defence around that area. As now you get back into the fight straight away.

[4th Objective - Tomb (and the rest)]

Well I thought this was gonna be too spammy at first but because the defence don't spawn anywhere near it then, well it makes it pretty easy to get with some snipers camping the defence spawn. The same for the treasure chest, no new defence spawn basically makes it a race to the end.

I tried to make certain points to be spammed but at a degree you cant hold it forever because there are so many routes to take.

Just a few opinions anyway, need to get it on PUG server for some testing.

Well let me bring out a new version in a couple of days which I can remove some small ''bugs''.

Thanks for your input cock!

 

[Joko]

np fagboy gl with it

 

[jobue]

looks nice man

 

[Ulv]

hmm
make the end trigger larger... i was able to bypass it when walking on the right side...
and i cratered falling down the waterfall thingy.... wtf?

 

[Despise]

hmm
make the end trigger larger... i was able to bypass it when walking on the right side...
and i cratered falling down the waterfall thingy.... wtf?

The end part aint done 100% yet, as you can see coz there is no end ''movie''. Didnt think of anything to end it with yet. The cratering I know about. Dont hug the walls when going down But thats already being fixed (no success yet tho lol).

 

[Despise]

Ive changed a few things after Joko's post. Ive made a spawnroom at the big temple room. Previously you spawned in the back on those stairs. But thinking about it, it was a weird position to spawn . So now ive made a room where the defence spawns just behind that area. So the problem with the minigun that was annoying to pickup is gone aswell as you can easily pickup your weapons in the new spawnroom.

Ive changed the spawnroom with the little lift. I totally removed that part and redid a whole new spawnroom without any lift involved.

Also I repositioned quite a few weapons a little bit to make it easier to pick up and added/removed some ammo/weapons.

I want to be ready with beta 2 on friday. So if you find any bugs or got any suggestions then please let me know. Now is the time to complain and let me change things!

 

[xb7]

Well ehm do you want me to build in cars to stop you from walking?

bicycles!!!!!!!!!

that and a xb7 shrine and i'd be happy

btw are u gonna finish it this year? or before i get 30?

 

[Despise]

bicycles!!!!!!!!!

that and a xb7 shrine and i'd be happy

btw are u gonna finish it this year? or before i get 30?

Oh and should I add a wheelchair for mush?

You will get your shrine, just wait and see!

Before you reach the supreme age of 100 this map will be completely done!

 

[Bart]

dispise can i edit your map for bartio...

select all lightning.... Delete....

so it's good for bartio

 

[Joko]

Ive changed a few things after Joko's post. Ive made a spawnroom at the big temple room. Previously you spawned in the back on those stairs. But thinking about it, it was a weird position to spawn . So now ive made a room where the defence spawns just behind that area. So the problem with the minigun that was annoying to pickup is gone aswell as you can easily pickup your weapons in the new spawnroom.

Ive changed the spawnroom with the little lift. I totally removed that part and redid a whole new spawnroom without any lift involved.

Also I repositioned quite a few weapons a little bit to make it easier to pick up and added/removed some ammo/weapons.

I want to be ready with beta 2 on friday. So if you find any bugs or got any suggestions then please let me know. Now is the time to complain and let me change things!

look forward to friday , lets get proper 6v6 and test it! Ill have another play today see if i see anything else.

 

[mousen]

The spawn for defenders after chest been taken are unfair...
Impossible to catch attackers.

 

[pykenike]

well despise. you made quite a nice map which looks great. but there are a few things i would change..

first part, as joko already said.. quite hard to attack if you ask me.. even with the spawns moved backwards after 30 seconds. I really see every defender kill 2 attackers from that spot. Def can hide at lot's of places and mini the crap out of them, Then attack also brings some snipers (+the snipers/shock the already have) will result in a snipe/mini/shock fest. (ps:i don't know where def spawns now in second beta) but it's quite a long run to the temple, it feels if as you are more running then fighting)
I would say that you also brighten up the entrance with some light so that def is more easily visible. Also flak doesn't seem to be the right weapon for defence at that spot.. put it outside (prevent def from spawning that narrow coridor) or replace it with pulse or ripper or summon.

(btw: if you breach throuh the snipernest the temple entered isn't triggered. Put a trigger attached to the fortstandard there i would say)

then after attack breaches that first part it becomes better. Attack has several routes. I don't know where def spawns again so i don't know if its ballanced.
(the sneakroute is good. maybe add a massage that the route is opened when it is.) and you could also add an asobest suit there. so that they can hammer up from those rocks in the deadlywater.. just adds a little twist.

then: the next big room looks great. but again hard to attack if you ask me.. also it's a bit of a run competion, which results in getting fraged in the back. i would completly remove the spawns as they are now (def3 spawn) and put it where the the def 4 spawns are (but further away in a halway or summin. so that def has still run to get to the fighting) Then i would also put a door before the way to the tomb opening. This prevents attackers from skipping the chains and defenders from reaching the lift to the snipe room.
i would also resize the ledge near the side so that launches are easier. Maybe you should even consider giving attack a rocketlauncher.

Last part is clearly not finished. (as you said) Getting shock ammo without shock is weird. (even when shock is down there) also this is also a run compitition.)

what i also would like to say that i really dislike your weapon choice soz. its snipe and mini everywhere and we already have loads of snipe/mini maps.
Imo you should only put mini in small parts of the map and not in open area's as you get miniraped by 6 mini's
place some pulse/ripper and bio at smart places and it makes it way more challeging


My post looks negative but i like your map. it has potential anyway. Maybe you disagree with a lot but maybe you got some idea's aswell.

 

[Protocol]

then after attack breaches that first part it becomes better. Attack has several routes. I don't know where def spawns again so i don't know if its ballanced.
(the sneakroute is good. maybe add a massage that the route is opened when it is.) and you could also add an asobest suit there. so that they can hammer up from those rocks in the deadlywater.. just adds a little twist.

I wouldn't put a message there. It would be too easy to defend otherwise. Not having the message keeps the defenders "on their toes" and so have to be paying attention at all times.

 

[pykenike]

I wouldn't put a message there. It would be too easy to defend otherwise. Not having the message keeps the defenders "on their toes" and so have to be paying attention at all times.

well i agree if you mean a constant trigger like in HiSpeed (attackers on roof) but i meant only a trigger when the doors are open. Like : Sneakdoors opening or somthing.
Everyone knows they are going to open but it's just handy for both offense and defence to know when.

 

[Despise]

first part, as joko already said.. quite hard to attack if you ask me.. even with the spawns moved backwards after 30 seconds. I really see every defender kill 2 attackers from that spot. Def can hide at lot's of places and mini the crap out of them, Then attack also brings some snipers (+the snipers/shock the already have) will result in a snipe/mini/shock fest. (ps:i don't know where def spawns now in second beta) but it's quite a long run to the temple, it feels if as you are more running then fighting)

The defence will spawn at the bridge after 30 sec, defence has to launch each other up to be able to sniper/shock after the front def spawn moves back to 2nd spot. Attackers got armour to be picked up under water aswell. Imo I dont think the first part is gonna be any problem. But a few good tests 6v6 will give us more info about it.

I would say that you also brighten up the entrance with some light so that def is more easily visible. Also flak doesn't seem to be the right weapon for defence at that spot.. put it outside (prevent def from spawning that narrow coridor) or replace it with pulse or ripper or summon.

Entrance is lighter already in beta 2. Im not gonna put the flakcannon outside as its gonna be used by the attackers aswell. I guess you meant spamming instead of spawning tho? But I moved the fortstandard a bit more to the outside so you dont have to walk all the way in anymore. So spamming the entrance wont have any effect.

(btw: if you breach throuh the snipernest the temple entered isn't triggered. Put a trigger attached to the fortstandard there i would say)

I know and its gonna stay that way, I wanne leave in the opportunity to sneak passed the first objective and get to the second objective by sneaking passed the defence. I dont wanne add a warning that people go high aswell. So the defence should watch their backs.

then after attack breaches that first part it becomes better. Attack has several routes. I don't know where def spawns again so i don't know if its ballanced.
(the sneakroute is good. maybe add a massage that the route is opened when it is.) and you could also add an asobest suit there. so that they can hammer up from those rocks in the deadlywater.. just adds a little twist.

Good idea about the message, didnt think of that yet! Proves other peoples input does help! Dont see a point in adding the suit tho, you can easily hammerjump at the end of the sneakroute.

then: the next big room looks great. but again hard to attack if you ask me.. also it's a bit of a run competion, which results in getting fraged in the back. i would completly remove the spawns as they are now (def3 spawn) and put it where the the def 4 spawns are (but further away in a halway or summin. so that def has still run to get to the fighting) Then i would also put a door before the way to the tomb opening. This prevents attackers from skipping the chains and defenders from reaching the lift to the snipe room.
i would also resize the ledge near the side so that launches are easier. Maybe you should even consider giving attack a rocketlauncher.

Ive made a new spawnroom for the big temple room, so defence spawns there are the time. Im not sure if I wanne stop the attackers from opening the tomb before getting the chains. That way defenders cant just try and defend 1 chain with all players, they still have to put a few people outside/sniping to stop attackers from launching there. I guess ill do what most people want as it doesnt really bother me to add it or leave it out.

The attackers can grab a rocket launcher once they take out of the 2 chains. As defence will most likely leave it alone or try to cover the rocket launcher with just 1 defender. Ive made it like that on purpose as defenders will not be able to hold both chains for long. So the attackers get a rocketlauncher once they take out 1 chain.

Last part is clearly not finished. (as you said) Getting shock ammo without shock is weird. (even when shock is down there) also this is also a run compitition.)

If you mean the shock ammo on the ledge above the waterfall, At first I didnt add the 2 shockcores at the end of the map and put in those 4 so defence/attack could grab them and then grab the shock below. As I didnt want to put shockcores below the waterfall. But I changed my mind and forgot to remove them. So thats my mistake.
Didnt even notice it lol.

what i also would like to say that i really dislike your weapon choice soz. its snipe and mini everywhere and we already have loads of snipe/mini maps.
Imo you should only put mini in small parts of the map and not in open area's as you get miniraped by 6 mini's
place some pulse/ripper and bio at smart places and it makes it way more challeging

I agree with you on that part, BUT... If I put in to much bio/ripper/rl/flak/shock then its people telling me its a spammy map. So its the 1 or the other. As ive put in a flakcannon at start and near the end. Lot of rocketlaunchers near the chains and bio aswell. Shock at the start and the end. So imo the map has everything for everyone. You can defend with spamming or with actual aiming to kill people. Atleast that was the plan while I thought of the weaponplacement.

My post looks negative but i like your map. it has potential anyway. Maybe you disagree with a lot but maybe you got some idea's aswell.

It will only improve the map with input from different people, as your post already gave me a few ideas of what to change/add. Just like Joko's post did. If people got good arguments then im happy to change things.

 

[Despise]

The spawn for defenders after chest been taken are unfair...
Impossible to catch attackers.

Noticed that after a few games. Already changed.

 

[Vitz¥^]

Couple of points ive picked up while playing....

imo it takes too long to swim down to the armour at attacker 1st spawn, means the def will be able to get too far progressed to defend and mini rape you to shit on 1st run. Although that wouldnt be a mega problem in match as tactics can say "dont take armour 1st run" in pubs it will be shit as n00bs will just take it anyway. possible solution put it on a ledge not at full depth of water? or raise bottom of pool... prolly too much work in that tho, and not strictly necessary, depending on what others think.

(btw: if you breach throuh the snipernest the temple entered isn't triggered. Put a trigger attached to the fortstandard there i would say)

personnally i like that aspect, it would be a problem if it didnt go once the attacker had taken the bridge, but as temple goes once that next objective has gone, all is good

one thing i have found so far to be a problem is after bridge has gone and ur trying to attack the chains, it is horrifically biased for the def, but it seems u have amended this problem already, so my comment is useless also related to the chains, if an attacker gets launched into the high route, to drop down to chains by lift costs him 49hp, could it be made so that when they are at top of lift shaft the lift comes up so they can get down without hp loss?

also the def spawn at bridge with lift is annoying but think i read that you are gonna change it

the only other thing i have come across is what seems to be a texture "bug"?? at the waterFALL after temple. see screeny. i am stood where u see me... obviously.

love the name of last obj btw

 

[Despise]

Couple of points ive picked up while playing....

imo it takes too long to swim down to the armour at attacker 1st spawn, means the def will be able to get too far progressed to defend and mini rape you to shit on 1st run. Although that wouldnt be a mega problem in match as tactics can say "dont take armour 1st run" in pubs it will be shit as n00bs will just take it anyway. possible solution put it on a ledge not at full depth of water? or raise bottom of pool... prolly too much work in that tho, and not strictly necessary, depending on what others think.

Good point, consider it being raised a little bit.

one thing i have found so far to be a problem is after bridge has gone and ur trying to attack the chains, it is horrifically biased for the def, but it seems u have amended this problem already, so my comment is useless also related to the chains, if an attacker gets launched into the high route, to drop down to chains by lift costs him 49hp, could it be made so that when they are at top of lift shaft the lift comes up so they can get down without hp loss?

Yup defence was to easy at chains, but ive made changes to give attackers more options. Added a ripper near the defence spawn so rippershots are possible now aswell. Even tho you have to take a risk as its near a exit of defence spawn!
Yeah I could change the lift a bit, but then attackers can ''liftcamp'' the defenders making it nearly impossible for defence to get up there. As ive moved the rocketlaunchers up a floor. So people cant just empty the RL and throw it away etc. But if your up there you can jump down the lift or take 1 of the 2 holes in the floor on either side. Which if done right doesnt do any damage to you.

also the def spawn at bridge with lift is annoying but think i read that you are gonna change it

Lift is gone in next beta. I Made a whole new spawnroom there, as the lift was added to slow defence down a little bit.

the only other thing i have come across is what seems to be a texture "bug"?? at the waterFALL after temple. see screeny. i am stood where u see me... obviously.

Yeah there is a bug with the waterfall, so far I had no success in removing it yet. If you drop down the wall you can crater or if your lucky and if you get stuck on the wall and make it down without cratering then you can walk around a bit on the place you got stuck there!

love the name of last obj btw

Hehe, well if you finish again. Then quickly push F1 to see the whole message!

 

[pykenike]

Hehe, well if you finish again. Then quickly push F1 to see the whole message!

[shock]BELONGS TO DES!!!!!!!!![/shock]

 

[Despise]

I said I would bring out beta 2 tonight, but I only just got back from work (6 hours later then planned ). Got a long day at work tomorrow aswell. So im gonna release it on sunday evening instead as I need to do a couple of small things still.